Are these Myth’s Keeping You Out of Therapy?

Fear holds so many people back from doing so many things… including therapy. Listen as LPC confronts this reality head on and watch as she encourages the black community to embrace therapy.

Dr.  O: Hey, hey, hey, and welcome to the Black Marriage and Family Therapy matters podcast where we connect black families to black therapists. Today, I want to introduce you to our guest, Crystal. Hi, Crystal.

LPC Chris: Hi. How are you?

Dr.  O: I’m doing well. How are you?

LPC Chris: Good.

Dr.  O:
So Crystal goes by the name LPC Chris, because she is the host of the get naked ID therapist podcast, which supports people within the social work and mental health field. Crystal, how did you get into that?

LPC Chris: Well, I’ve been in the field for 15 years. And I felt as though there was something that was missing in the podcast world. And I wanted to have something that was specifically for therapists, and not for therapists in our you know, our clients, everything is all about our clients and what we do for them. But what about us, so I want to present something and create something that would refill the whale for us therapists
Love it. Love it. Love it. You know, we talked about this on the podcast so far. And it’s so important that when we are healers, and when we are leaders, a lot of times like in our family and the things that we do.

Dr.  O: We’re, we’re constantly giving and sometimes it is extremely hard to remember that we we need to receive and your podcast seeks to do that. Yeah, so we as a black therapist, it’ll be half of all the therapists who listen to you. I truly Thank you.

LPC Chris: I appreciate you for listening.

Dr.  O: Absolutely. We’re gonna encourage our audience to listen as well. And we’ll give more information about how they can find you at the end of the show.

LPC Chris: Thanks.

Dr.  O: Yes, fantastic. Awesome. So So obviously, you are a therapists, and you’re in your own line of clinical work. And today, I’ve invited you to the show, because I wanted to talk about some of the myths and some of the themes that keep black families from seeking therapy. Is that okay?

LPC Chris: Yes.

Dr.  O: All right. So what types of things? Have you seen that act as barriers to therapy in the black community?

LPC Chris: So I am representation of a black family, basically, that needed therapy, and never went. I am from the south. And I’m also my family’s very religious, and therapy just never really came across as something that is very helpful. If we, in my family mentioned therapy, it was always because something was wrong. Or there was like a highlight of something of a weakness or a lack of faith. So that’s what my mindset and our mindsets were back, you know, in the 80s. And I’m here it’s before in generation before, we just didn’t see counseling as something that is a helpful thing. It was more of a harmful thing to bring issues to life.

Dr.  O: Mm hmm. It’s Yeah. It was funny that you say that, because as you were just saying that I was thinking about when I was growing up myself, and one of my cousins had got married, and apparently, they went to couples counseling. And that became the thing, like, my family was just like, Oh, my God, you know, they’ve only been married what, like a year or something already a couples counseling. And I couldn’t understand cuz I’m like, I hope they are like, they started off, you know, it’s like a counseling, but we talked about, like, it was like the worst thing ever, right?

LPC Chris: Yes. If she said, I guess the stigma of therapy and counseling and mental health. Yeah. Yeah. Geez. And so, you know, you decided to take a stand against that, you know, that you weren’t going to fall into that narrative that that therapy is a bad thing, right? Um, yeah. How.. what can you say to somebody right now, who might be listening and might be in the same place where they grew up in a family, where therapy was , considered kind of taboo, and, but they know they need help.

Dr.  O: Right. I’m a mom on a faith. And so I say, step out on faith. And I believe that God gives people talents to do what they need to do to help others. I believe that therapists just have this. They’ve gone to school, of course, for therapy or social work. But I believe the talent is there already before they even went to school to do what they do. So I would say step out on faith because even as a therapist, we need therapists. And our supervisors sometimes acts as our therapists. If we have a really good one, they act as our therapist, and it’s just been, it’s been a blessing for me to have someone in my life that I can, you know, just talk to that is non judgmental. That doesn’t see me as a bad person. In I have certain feelings and thoughts, it they build upon what I already all the skills and talents that I already have. Yeah, they build on that. It just makes you feel so fulfilled at the end of the day when you do seek therapy and counseling. Oh, awesome.

LPC Chris: Yeah. So So, you know, I’m glad you mentioned that, because you touched on a couple of things that I want to highlight, you’ve mentioned God. And of course, you know, therapists need their own support. And I think that’s a beautiful thing about our professional model is that, you know, when you’re in school, I know my school, some schools, I believe, make you go to therapy. But in my school, they didn’t make you go. But if you demonstrated any sense of need for additional, you know, behavioral resources, they would they had, they had a list, of therapist that they refer to, etc, then, of course, as you say that as we graduate, when we’re getting our internship, and we’re getting our hours, if we’re working in, you know, certain environments, we have people that support us. And that is, you know, I know, churches run differently. But you know, a lot of times the issue and I want to ask you if you’ve seen this as well, with the church model is that we’re not saying don’t go, and we’re not saying don’t use your counselor, sometimes who is the counselor being accountable to like what human being is the church is the church Council, whether it’s the pastor, whether it’s the minister, whatever.

Dr. O: Who are they, you know, who are they debriefing with?

LPC Chris: This is a huge we’ve seen this in the past five years, where now churches are more interested in counseling and therapy is placing those, especially in the black church, placing those counselors within the church so that people can reach out. We We are a little behind the curve, but we finally understood that it is a detriment to turn a blind eye to the world and what’s happening in the lives of people who are in the faith.

Dr.  O: Yeah. While at the same time, you know, I think what you’re doing and what I like to do as well is honor the faith because that is a very important part. But you know, they complement each other. They don’t they don’t have to be mutually exclusive. You don’t choose one or the other. Right. I’m just curious, when you work with your clients, do you? Is there a faith principle to the work that you do?

LPC Chris: For me, I, if the families mentioned faith, that’s when I invite them to a conversation and a guided conversation around faith, but unless they are able to give me that information, I can get to where I pray for them silently preparing, I even go into a counseling session. Or if I feel stuck with the client, I go in and put them in my in my own little altar? Because things that happened, that I we just get stuck. And that’s the reality of it. Yeah, doing long term therapy, you do get sick, or you do get worried about a family or child, or somebody who’s in recovery, you do get worried about them. And a lot of times, it’s like, Lord, if you can just put your hands on them, and you know exactly what they need, more than I ever will.

Dr.  O:

Mm hmm. I love that. I love that. And and it’s so interesting, because I do the same exact thing. You know, that’s how I use my faith. I mean, I don’t I prefer all of my clients. But if I’m working with someone who has been, you know, harmed by religion, right, in the black church, then that wouldn’t be appropriate to bring them in, in their space. So I love that so so you listeners, listeners, you can be a Christian and receive mental health counseling concurrently. They work together. So do you work specifically with black families? Or do you work with a variety of

LPC Chris: I work with a variety of families in the past, I did behavior health assessments with in a medical clinic that was only predominantly black, it had history based on being in a black neighborhood. And it was made that 50-60 years ago for people who were impoverished and for that moment, when they found out that they had a behavioral health consultant access at his clinic, people were coming in droves. And not only the idea, the assessments and brief solutions focused therapy, I had a few counseling clients that would come back, you know, when they didn’t have any doctor appointment, so they would come and seek therapy. So it was majority black then and some, you know, Hispanic clients that I would get translation services for But I did have black families or even older black men that would come in to see me for services.

Dr.  O:

Mm hmm. That’s awesome. Wow, we get not only the black families, but the black men. Because a lot of times, you know, if they do come, it’s going to be the black woman and her children. So I love it, which, and I’m getting an influx of black men, too, that are coming to me. So I just, I love I love that we’re doing this work. What do you wish black families knew about therapy?

LPC Chris: I wish for them to know that they can actually do shopping, they don’t have if they find one therapist that does not fit well with their family, that’s fine. Find one that fits very well with your family, because you don’t have to accept just one therapist that just doesn’t work out. And then you do not seek therapy ever again. You can actually there’s enough therapists out there. And there’s black therapists out there that you can try out and see if that’s what you is that what’s good for your family, and then just find your fit.

Dr.  O: Mm hmm. Yeah. Is there a particular area that black families struggle the most with? And if so, what can they learn from it?

LPC Chris: Certain area in therapy that they struggle with?

Dr.  O: With the whole mental health arena, whether it’s, you know, my work has been steeped in more youth focused at risk. Okay.

LPC Chris: A lot of it and I I cannot based on what I do, I can’t prescribe medication or anything like that. But what I found is when black families not understanding ADHD, not no, yes, that trauma, not understand that even babies experience emotions, even babies. trauma, they just can’t tell you. A lot of our families don’t understand that if something happened, even while a woman is pregnant, that babies do have memory, they just cannot tell us. Yes, that’s kind of like, a lot of my families are not knowledgeable of what trauma is and how it can affect your lifestyle over your entire life. They don’t understand that. So it can be medically it can be starving in school, it can all show up in your social interactions with with people, they do not understand. They just think that children forget because they have not talked about it. They treat them like they’re little not little like little adult, little oil, like recognizing Yeah. Working with at risk. You. I have a little bit of experience with that as well.

Dr.  O: Do you find how important do you think it is that there’s a family dynamic as opposed to Okay, this kid has bad lets slap a diagnosis on him? Yeah, and he’s the problem.

LPC Chris: Yeah. And you’ll see that a lot. You see it like this, this child, this one child, all guy not got all these other kids. My other kids don’t cause me problems. But it causes me the problems. And I’ve seen I’ve seen a lot in both white and black families. But no child can work by themselves. Nobody can work by themselves. They need a support system. They need their family and then there the language has to change. It’s hard. Of course, you have grand mama telling you to do this. And you have Aunty telling you to to do this. And this is what I did with y’all.

Dr.  O: Mm hmm. You know, I that one is the one that gets me the most. This is what I did with y’all. You know, I mean?

LPC Chris: Yes. Yeah. Understand this is a whole different date and generation understand that children need a conversation. There’s an there’s a funny meme I saw on Facebook and said, You know, when people are saying, hey, at your age. I don’t know! I’ve never been this age before!

Dr.  O: Yes, yeah. Right. Right. Right. We need to teach them what that means.

LPC Chris: Yes, yes. Yeah. So that has been that has been the what I find so much with our families. And it’s a it’s an education piece that’s missing there, that children need that grace period to know that when they hit developmental milestones, like they turned 14, there’s certain things it’s gonna happen. Yeah, okay. Yeah. So like, boys and girls, it’s okay. Yes, it’s it to want to do this with their hair or no, or be hyperactive in school. It’s Mm hmm. So, yeah, that’s what I come across. And I also see with medication. When families don’t like the medication, they just stop it. Like stop it, and they don’t understand it that can harm their child that can make it even worse. It can harm your child physically, like physically. And you have to go to the doctor, if this medicine doesn’t work for your child, you have to go to the doctor to tell your doctor and communicate with him. Mm hmm. He does not work. He just cannot stop.

Dr.  O: Yes, yes. You can’t just stop it. And you have to remember to take it Yes. You know, I have clients that I’m that I have. And they’re just like, Oh, I just forgot, or, you know, me, you have to recognize the children and children for things. So that means, you know, we have to I mean, we can set alarms on our phones, you know, we can associate it with meals, like when you have breakfast, or you brush your teeth, you can, you know, you need, we need to find like little reminders and includes to, to get it in their body, and then be consistent with it. And if you do want to go a different way, get the support from from a professional medical professional to do that.

LPC Chris: Yes, yes.

Dr.  O: Something else I want to ask you about this is how, how much of a problem? Is it that you in your at risk youth that you know, did you do it in the home? Or did they come to you?

LPC Chris: I’ve done in home, and I’ve done residential, and I’ve done the clinic, and now they they come to me? Or they’ll guide it?

Dr.  O: Love it? Love it? So do you ever notice any challenges with working directly with the child? And then knowing that child has gone right back to their same environment?
It’s very hard. And that’s a lot of my challenges.

LPC Chris: When I worked in residential, and residential, they came from like lockdown facilities, and then went to a more cooperative living situation where they can learn job skills, they can learn it go back to the regular school, and then they learn life skills. But after a certain amount of time, they transition back home, to be with their family. So in that transition, I help them with that transition in their family. But they’re going back to a family environment where you have neighbors, you have people, you know, selling drugs, you have people not going to work, you see people got going to school, you know, you have all of this stuff going on. So you try to teach them as much to rise above, but your environment is basically going to inhibit you from being a successful. So it hasn’t been too hard before. And I’ve seen many of my kids do so well in residential settings where they’re here, and then go home and right back where you’re right. Yeah, yeah. And that’s hard, because you want to keep the kid in the home. But at the same time, sometimes we know that that home is not, it’s not the best invite, it doesn’t support the best habits. It’s not conducive to where they want to go in life.

Dr.  O: Do you have any recommendations for how we can kind of get the family a little bit more involved?

LPC Chris: I think to continue being building that rapport, because you’ve already built that rapport with the child. And just building that rapport with the families. And I think that the older that I’ve gotten, I don’t have any children of my own. But the older that I’ve gotten, the more wisdom I’ve gotten. Like, I don’t know the answer, this is your child, this comes from you. So I don’t know the answer. I’m not the expert of your child. But what I can do is guide you through this situation. So I’m gonna try to join with the parent and try to figure out, you know, what are your goals to see for your family? What is your goal to see for your child, like you have that power, you have more power than you realize. You can change it for your whole entire family by being supportive of your children?

Dr.  O: Yes, you can. One of the strategies that I’ve implemented was because I get it, like you said, a lot of times these families, they have three or four other children. So you know, it might be kind of hard to bring everybody in every week, you know, to a therapy session. But what one of the things that I found to be helpful is I’ll give the kids especially if they can, like understand it, or if they really I’ll give them like a worksheet are so different, what we discussed that day, and I’ll just invite the parents to listen, you know, go over ask dad what we did, and have them bring it out and go over those techniques and skills together.

LPC Chris: Yes. So a lot of times is it’s just inviting the family into and you know, for me, I’ll like don’t ask the parent. Hey, how is Jane? You know, how was James week? Is there anything you want me talk about it? We have to get creative. Yeah,
They already built up a protective factor there, that you already invading privacy and all that. So yeah has to be a way to figure out how to get them on board and to keep them on board to be their cheerleader.

Dr.  O: Absolutely. One of the thoughts that’s coming to mind is, when we all know that blacks, you know, are not utilizing therapy services as much as non blacks, which is part of the reason why I use the podcast, we’re likely to terminate therapy, less likely to, you know, get appropriate diagnosis is etc. I think one of the issues that they have, so there’s clearly a distrust in the therapy field, and then you’ve got us and by us, I mean, black therapists who, who have obviously tapped into this distrust so that we can help these black families. But do you ever get a sense that you still have to kind of prove yourself like, you know, you look like them. But you, you’ve gone a different way, you developed a few a different, you know skillset? to bring that to them? Like, do you ever find any resistance when you do that?

LPC Chris: I think it’s in my younger, younger years. I did. Because of my age. Yeah, there was a big resistance because they didn’t feel like I knew anything, or I could give them anything of value. Mm hmm. But that’s when I did have the most pushback back then. But right. I think as a more, I would say, middle seasoned, therapist it’s been 15 years.

Dr.  O: Yeah.

LPC Chris: As much as the pushback anymore, because my best thing is that, because I know what it’s like to be somewhere and feel uncomfortable. Yeah, I grew up very, uncomfortable. And one of the things is when, when a family comes to me, that’s what I would want them to feel when they leave me to feel comfortable. Like this is somebody that I can talk to, and I don’t feel judge.

Dr.  O: Oh, I love it. Yeah, yeah. And yeah, I think that’s beautiful. I think it’s beautiful. And so for those that are hearing us, you know, we’re vulnerable to, like, we know that there’s some distrust, like we feel it, you know, that’s why LPC Chris does this podcast is like to, to support us, because we’re also nervous and uncomfortable in this work. So please, you know, understand that it’s a reciprocal thing. Yeah. And, you know, with the amount of work and effort that we put into getting these degrees and credentials and research and whatever Avenue we choose, it’s only because we really want to help.

LPC Chris: Yes, indeed, yes.

Dr.  O: Are there any resources that you might would recommend to black families to get them to kind of be a little bit more open to go into therapy and bypassing some of the myths and assumptions that they might have?

LPC Chris: Our Google is our best friend.

Dr.  O: Yeah.

LPC Chris: And googling some some therapy sessions. We read if you if you look up in your city or your town, looking up black therapists in your area and look at their right. If that means what you would like for your family, go ahead and call reaching out and contacting them. We there’s tons of books out there for black therapists out there we are more now than we everywhere. Yes, yes. And good side. Yes. stuff. Thank God for the internet. Yes, yeah. podcast like this, this hands? Cuz, you know, yeah, cuz it’s not a lot. It’s not a lot. It used to not be as much information out there. And now, but doing your research on what it might look like finding somebody I know, that has gone to therapy and getting referrals from that way, and can definitely help out. And I think just making the first step of just stepping out again on faith. Right, that you’ll find the right one, pray for the right therapist or counselor and Doctor

Dr.  O: Mm hmm. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. And just to piggyback off of what you said, it’s a slow process, but the Black Marriage and Family Therapy Matters has podcast also has a directory. So we’re going to start opening Yeah, we’re going to start opening invitations for therapists to join us as well. So yeah, but whatever Avenue you choose, we want to make sure that you know we are here and we are wanting to be advocates for you. We’re wanting to support you, on your journeys. Present. Any myth any anything particularly talked about, you know the importance of understanding that you can be a Christian and a client of a counseling relation. Is there any one myth that you just think is just really dominating? And you really just want to, to knock that out in terms of how black people black simply just be therapy?

LPC Chris: I think that’s a big myth is that mental health illness is the work of the devil?

Dr.  O: Oh, yes, yes. Can you tell me more like what types of messages and stuff? Do we feed that? That thought process?

LPC Chris: I know for sure. Just again, growing up in the south, if you are having schizophrenia diagnosis, that is the work of the devil, hearing voices, seeing things that are not there. That’s the work of the devil, being addicted to alcohol, drugs, work of the devil. In what we did not know is there is some chemical basis for all of these things that have occurred to people in depression as well depressed like what are you depressed over? You know, and right, right? depressed? Right? You know, right? How well can a child be depressed when they don’t have any stress? Mm hmm. So I’ve had that in one in being in the clinic setting. I remember walking into a, into a patient’s room, and I was warned. She really doesn’t want to talk to you. But very, very faith based, okay. And her husband’s a preacher, and she’s not gonna want to talk to you because you she knows your therapist, but I’m gonna keep talking to her so I walked in, I made sure I gave her enough room. The space in the room wasn’t close to her anything like that. So she can feel comfortable was in her space. Right? Right. Right. I told her who I was. And I didn’t want to, you know, invade her space on her feel comfortable, but she had tears in her eyes. And she looked at me and she says, I’m not gonna call what I have depression. But I’m just a little sad. And she just booboo, cried the entire. The whole thing is she’s kicking me out. But every time I get close to the door, she has more stuff to say. Mm hmm. I just found myself doing a very slow assessment prior. And it was very much true that she needed medication for clinical depression, because she had a medical situation that caused her to cause her to be sick. And it was not doing very well for her mental health. So just doing a very slow sheet. She didn’t want anything strongly no strong medication or anything like that. But we did get her something to help her maintain. Especially going to work she was having her cry and being able to make a full day at work was going for and she was absolutely able to do that.

Dr.  O: Absolutely. I mean, I think we over emphasize diagnosis, you know, I mean, sad and depressed. Me, I’m gonna keep it real, it’s the same thing. Especially if every time you’re walking away, she’s giving you more information to support her sadness. Yeah, she’s probably outlining all the criteria that qualify for depression. So, you know, and statistically, and I’ve said this before, and I’ll say it again, throughout the course of your life, anywhere from I believe I read most recently, nine out of 10 people will will classify as some level of mental illness. Yes, you know, even if the same anxiety or even if it’s green, you know, if you’ve watched me come out, we all lose the life of people that we care about, and things like that. So, speaking of grief, I don’t know if you really want to go into anything like that. Yes, yes. Yes. Because you definitely know that that story, or that feedback? Yeah. grief, and I had grief for okay.

LPC Chris: Because we have we see grief as just a death, but it can be any session. It can be as yeah that way, but it can be promoted and you know, you’re excited, you’re happy. But then you have to learn a whole brand new job, and I guess a transition that takes time and that’s a loss but it’s again at the same time. Yes. But I am personally have dealt with and wrestled with grief for my biggest loss was I lost my brother when I was 14. I was very young and he was very young. And it just having to navigate being a teenager in grieving and long and young adult life and how that how that loss has kind of shaken a lot of my social, social relationships and even mental health. So yes, we don’t as a culture, we don’t allow people to grieve, as an American, as a, as a black American, we don’t allow people to grieve, we always look at people as when they show up, we look at people as being strong or weak or anything. And it’s not like he’s just trying to make the day by day.

Dr.  O: Yes, yeah. So thank you for your vulnerability, and, you know, in in feedback into that, and I’m just I’m dealing with the loss of my dad as well. I don’t even know if you’re aware of that. But that was in October, but I’m an adult. And when when I hear you say, you know, it’s funny, you mentioned 14, and I remember, I’m assuming we’re about the same age, because you mentioned growing up in the 80s. But for me, the words were cool points, like, you know, you’d like you had to be cool as a 14 year old, like, yeah, so if you cried or anything like that, was that you really we did? Yes. You know, we had this image to live up to Yes. And you’re dealing so you had to navigate, dealing with something so emotionally? Heavy?

LPC Chris: Yes, very much, very much. And this is probably the reason why I am in the field. Because when I said earlier, I’ve been made uncomfortable. And that’s one thing that for my clients, and wherever I go, even outside of the professional in my personal life, I want people to feel comfortable around me because again, I know what it’s like to feel uncomfortable, so much stuff going on as much trauma going on and judgment that you know, people miss out on the very heart of it all, in fitting in people’s hurt in pain is that I did not have that opportunity as a child to have anybody sit with me in that pain. And so now as a therapist, if it’s silent, if it comes out, I just I’m comfortable with the silence.

Dr.  O: Yeah. Yeah, I think yes, families Listen, we’re hurting, okay, we got stuff going on. And, you know, if somebody is grieving with something, or somebody is having a difficult time for you to tell them to get over it, or you know, God, God makes no mistakes that way. Please, just don’t ever say that. Ever! These things are really insensitive. And I’m just thinking, it’s hard because I’m just thinking about, you know, a friend of mine, and she’s also a therapist, but she lost her daughter. And I just, I couldn’t like I just I was like, immobilized in pain for her. Yeah, literally. Yeah. When I just remember hugging her as she started to speak. And I don’t know if it was because of the connection that I had with her or because as a therapist, I knew she didn’t know what to say.

LPC Chris: Right.

Dr.  O: You know, but she just felt odd. It was almost like the burden here. She was having lost her daughter. And she was welcoming all these people. And she felt like she needed to make us okay. And I interrupted her. And I told her, I said, you don’t have to say anything. You know, we I just want to be here. And the relief that she experienced, like, she just I mean, it was almost like she was like, thank God. Yes. You know, so sometimes silence is the silence is definitely It’s okay.

LPC Chris: Yes.

Dr.  O: Yeah. Yes. I love silence.

LPC Chris: Mm hmm. Yeah. In the presence of somebody that you feel safe in?

Dr.  O: Yes, yes. Yes. And that’s what it boils down to is about , we got to be safe. You know, I’m saying we got to create these safe spaces for people when they’re going through things because these are people we love them. Mm hm. And you can’t fix everything you know, I mean, I’m sorry, but if somebody is deceased, that that is it their deceased, right? Nothing you say is gonna bring them back so don’t say it. You know, don’t say anything, right? No, like Shut up. Ask them you know, do you need You know what, how can I help you? No, I can’t you know, can I get you some dinner and I can I help you with the arrangements? Yeah. What kind of flowers Do you you know, make do things to make their life brighter? Yes, easier. Exactly. Yes, it is. We we want in that church members. We want to be very prolific in what Yeah, people who are in loss, but true. You’d be making it worse.

LPC Chris: I really can’t remember what you said.

Dr.  O: I just tuned you out. Yeah, yes. Oh, wow. Gosh, Crystal, thank you for your, your vulnerability on this. I want to just switch it well, quickly to a part of the show that we call What’s Good? And What’s Good is a part of a show where we give a hypothetical situation about something that our client could elicit or could potentially be going through. Okay, and all right, like to ask her advice. So here goes, meet Veronica. Veronica is in a marriage where she feels unloved and unsupported. She wants to get marital counseling, but she has not addressed her own demons. She’s afraid to try individual counseling because she heard that counseling was for crazy people. How would you advise her?

LPC Chris: Just what her What is her goal? And if she wants it, Veronica wants to make some changes in her life? Would she rather fit with what she’s got going on right now? Or would she want to make things better? So in order to make the changes that she wants in her own life, there’s got to be the steps forward towards coming outside of her boundaries, coming out in battling those myths, again, about counseling and therapy.

Dr.  O: Mm hmm.

Finding someone who has gone to therapy, finding a couple who has gone to, to marriage counseling, or even individual counseling, finding someone and talking to them about their what their fears are, because there’s pretty sure there’s somebody else that had the same fear. Mm hmm. And just finding who those those people are in her life, or even outside of her life that she can just bounce ideas off of so she can gain that confidence to go. But if you want your life to stay stagnant, and the way it is, they don’t do anything. Absolutely. If you want life to get better, then make those first steps and come on out the comfort zone.

Dr.  O: Love it, love it. Well, LPC Chris has been a pleasure interviewing you today. You from the bottom of my heart. Thank you. Yeah, absolutely. All right. Well, again, thank you. Oh, wait, before we go. Get NakedI. How can my listeners get more of you?

LPC Chris: Okay, the podcast is called to Get Naked Therapists. And it’s #GetNeckIDTherapist. So let’s get naked therapist. Yeah, I am on the anchor app AN my streams on pocket cast, Google Apple breaker, and Stitcher and so it is for social workers, therapists, all those who work in the social services field. And it’S CALLED #GetNeckIDTherapist. because it kind of throws but it is you know explores the good, the bad and the ugly parts of the field that we love so much. So we get down to the decade truth all while trying to find out what our ID is in this field. So love that is that is the reason why it’s named that and you can find that again on anchor and some other listening streams.

Dr.  O: Love it. Love it. Love it. Thank you LPC Chris, it has been a pleasure.

LPC Chris: Thank you so much. It’s been a pleasure. I appreciate you for contacting me. Absolutely on your show. Absolutely.

Dr.  O: Awesome. It was a pleasure to have you take care.

LPC Chris: All right, bye bye.

Dr.  O: Okay, bye.

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