Dr. O
Hey, Hey, Hey, and welcome to the Black Marriage and Family Therapy Matters. This podcast where we connect black families to black therapists. Today’s therapist is Christopher Scott, also known as Hip Hop Social Worker. Hi, Christopher.
Good morning. How you doing?
Hip Hop Social Worker:
I’m good. How are you?
Hip Hop Social Worker:
I’m doing good. Just Friday.
Dr. O
Awesome. It is a lovely Friday. And we are so honored to have you here today.
Hip Hop Social Worker:
Yeah. I am honored to be on the podcast. Thank you.
Dr. O
Ah, let me give my audience a quick introduction to who you are. If that’s okay. Yes. All right. Christopher Scott, is an MSW an SI CS wha, and a social worker from Portland taking a journey to further his career and making an effort to change the platform of social work. Well, I know you and I’m sure most of us know you as hip hop, social worker. Mm hmm. Because you have this awesome podcast, why don’t you tell us a little bit about that?
Hip Hop Social Worker:
Yeah, so basically, uh, you know, I had an idea to kind of make social work my own thing, you know, when I’m, you know, when I was in grad school, I would see like, these people come and speak to our classes, and people will know why people love their work. And, you know, how can I get to that level. So you know, and I was kind of stuck in a rut, I really didn’t know what to do so, so I just found, so I really, really just found out what podcasts were and, I want to start the podcast. So I started the podcast, and it took me a while to kind of get like what I was gonna do with it. So like, I would like do like little short episodes, I would give like, mindfulness tips, I would, I would have the feedback, I would call a rants about trauma, racism, you know, things like that of some of my personal life as well. But when I got to the groove of it, I started, you know, reaching out to different social workers are our art therapists in general, just to kind of, you know, see what their journey is like, and what their work is, like, you know, just to kind of see if we can build a community of people. And yeah, just trying to let people like, like, trying to spread awareness of what social work is, and in the different areas of social work, that I tried to explore, because I know like, I’m at my grad school program, there was a lot of my focus on like, therapy, you know, like, I see like, like, like, everybody thinks social work the thing about CPS, and now Yeah, like mental health. So sometimes we like to expand on what that is more than just those two lanes, so So yes, really trying to make a voice in the community and help people share their platforms and things like that share tips, you know, tips that I find valuable I share. So I feel like if I find it valuable, other people probably find it valuable. So that’s kind of how absolutely,
Dr. O
Yeah, well, that’s awesome. And you’re correct. Well, I mean, I totally agree with you that, like attracts like, so many things that you’re going through as a black man. I mean, you might have a social work degree and background, but you still a black man. And we need you out here doing your thing. And even I’m a woman, but I’ve been drawn to your show as well. And I think it’s awesome. So I’m just going to have everybody when we’re done with this, please go look up if you haven’t already, Hip Hop Social Worker and please follow this man, because he’s brilliant.
Hip Hop Social Worker:
Thank you.
Dr. O
You’re welcome. You’re welcome. Well, today’s topic, as you know, is going to be about black men being vulnerable. And one of the things that I want to speak with you about in general is your you know, you’re you’re actually quite vulnerable on your show. Um, you know, you’re not like crying. But even if you did, that would be okay. Um, because we don’t, I don’t know, I don’t we don’t really see a lot of that. And it’s hard to just, why is that? Let’s start there. Like, what is it? Do you feel like it’s a safe space for black men to cry?
Hip Hop Social Worker:
I feel like it’s a time and place. I feel like there’s, there’s still like, kind of like, I feel like it’s still not safe because you might have like five friends and like one might start crying. Three might be okay with it. But if the fourth one is like, like tripping, then he’ll kind of like, like, kind of, kind of make the other like three like, Oh, you know, sorry, like you soft or something like that. So, there’s also I feel like, I feel like it’s just this lightly, still stigma as being tough, you know, but I feel like as we get older, that stigma shreds. It, you know, because because, you know, like me, I am pretty vulnerable on my podcast, but it took me a while to get there. Like when I was a teenager. When I was a teenager, I was very guarded, just because you couldn’t be soft or you know, quote on quote soft. You can show any emotion just because of where we come from you No, like, if you live in a place, you know, like, where I grew up, I mean, it’s Portland, but so it’s not like super, like good, but it still had a hood. You know, I’m saying, if you show any kind of vulnerability, it just made your day tough, you know, because people would just kind of joke on you or try to take advantage of you or things like that. So I feel like some of that old stigma still follows to new generations, which I feel like a new generations. There’s, like, you know, there’s more spaces for us to be vulnerable, but we’re not taking advantage of those spaces, you know, not quite yet. You know, so like, I work at a Juvenile Correctional Facility. And, you know, a lot of men that I, our young men that I work with, you know, they’re, they’re hurting, you know, they’re depressed or stressed, but they don’t, they don’t ever want to tell you that, you know, like, so like, I told you, man, they’re like, my goal for this unit is to like, have, like, help you be comfortable just coming back to the office, and just letting it all go? Well, you know, so, so long story short, I really don’t have like a solid answer. But I think like, just like from generations of, you know, the man up culture is kind of like, it trickles down, you know, it trickles down. I mean, even what, like, you know, the Dwyane Wade thing where he had embraced his daughter, and there was backlash from that, you know, there’s still people thinking, like, you know, like, you know, haven’t have a negative thing to say about that.
Dr. O
Right? Right.
Hip Hop Social Worker:
And I just think it all stems from, you know, the whole idea of what a black man has got to be tough, you gotta be strong, and you gotta, you gotta, you gotta, you know, sound like you can’t, you can’t show no weakness without being vulnerable is a weakness. But we still have some some out there that think that so
Dr. O
That’s correct. Well, what I what I’m taking from, you know, from your actual response is that it’s not that you don’t want to cry, or that you don’t have the urges, but that you have to be cautious of society’s impact. Like, how, what does that mean?
Hip Hop Social Worker:
Yeah.
Dr. O
For other people, if they see me cry,
Hip Hop Social Worker:
Yeah. So like, you can be aggressive. But, yes, but you know, but you can’t cry sometimes, you know, like, you know, like, depression and anxiety and things like that, you know, like, sometimes, like this response is to cry or just to be aggressive, but we will rather choose to be aggressive because you know, that, that gets more of a, you know, kind of like, um, leave me alone response, you know,
Dr. O
Yes. So that we will go away. You could probably cry.
Yeah, yeah.
Dr. O
You know, I mean, just hearing you speak, man, I’m getting a flashback of probably about this summer. Gosh, I feel horrible because my stepdad, but he’s been in my life over half of my life, lost his sister, God bless his heart. And we were on the phone and I was just I don’t I don’t know if that time if she was deceased, but you know, she, she had gone to hospice, and it was only a matter of time.
Yeah.
Dr. O
And I was just expressing, you know, I guess not my condolences yet, but saying that, you know, I’m sorry to hear the news or whatever. And when I tell you this 70 plus year old man, he’ll never hear this. And if not, that’s fine, because I’m even cautious. And we shared this, but he does it. You know, he didn’t do podcasts. But yeah. Can I tell the way he cried. And, and it just, it feels bad? Because you know, you’re you’re you’re schooling us now and let us know. It’s not that you don’t have the emotions, but to say you’re cautious of your community. But I guess, when he was so overwhelmed with emotion, I honestly didn’t know what to do. And I’m a therapist. 15 years into this. And I’m really, when I tell you, I had no clue. I had no clue. And it just I don’t know, I freaked me out. I didn’t when my husband was there, thank God. And he was a I was I had to call him to me and say, Listen, you know, you have to answer take this call. And I know that’s the poor way to respond. I absolutely am completely aware. But I was, you know, I really, I didn’t know what to do. I’d never seen it before, especially with him. And it was just weird in here this man. All he was trying to do was express his emotions. Like everyone else.
Hip Hop Social Worker:
Yeah. And I’ve had that happen before too. Like, you know, like, you just don’t know what to say. Yeah. Or like, you know, recently I’ve experienced a few I experienced a few death in my my family.
Dr. O
Sorry. Yeah.
Hip Hop Social Worker:
Thank you. And in Yeah, like, even me, being a therapist. I know that it’s okay to like cry. But I still like, like, I still feel like I don’t, I don’t want to put that burden on someone else to like, take care of me. So, so I’ll always fight back tears until I couldn’t find them back anymore. So yeah, I definitely understand that you know, you know, because you are right, like, you know, like one of my friends started crying in front of me right now. about some stuff that I was going through, I wouldn’t, you know, I probably wouldn’t know what to say. It’s just yeah, it’s just, it’s, it’s tough to be vulnerable, but it’s like, and then sometimes it’s like, you know, just having a presence of mind, you know, just to let them you know, get it out, you know? Don’t, don’t rush to, you know, find the solution.
Dr. O
Mm hmm. I’ve said that up here before, right? We don’t have to silences. Okay, you know, you know, you can, you don’t have to say anything, especially when someone is experienced, I mean, it could be a loss of a, of a loved one, it could be loss of a job, it could be loss of a relationship. It could be just lost right now. Just feeling lost, you know, people have emotions, and they’re entitled to it. And, you know, we shouldn’t always feel like we should have an answer. And I will say, a little bit in my defense, and I don’t know if this makes it better or worse, but I had my daughter with me, and she, you know, she, even though I want to teach her emotions as well, that is a lot for four year old. You know, I had also recently lost my dad and her teachers mom died. And so, you know, I was like, I don’t want my baby to just think
Hip Hop Social Worker:
that’s about Yeah,
yeah.
Dr. O
Yeah. a hard one. Yeah. Um, I don’t know. Okay, so you told us about, you know, working with teenage boys who have emotional difficulties, um, what is something that you wish that they knew about, you know, being vulnerable in even expressing that for crying if need be?
Hip Hop Social Worker:
That it’s, that it’s normal. You know, that is like a normal emotion. I was talking to a young man last week, and he was telling me that, you know, in this environment, that we, everybody’s stressed, so like, I don’t want to put, I don’t want to put that energy on another one of my friends because he stressed to like, why would I, you know, it’s selfish for me to, you know, for me to start crying, I’m sorry, venting to my friends. He has his own problem. So, so I’m just kind of switching that mindset, you know, to like, be more trustworthy of people. We know not, not everybody, of course, but you know, like, Don’t be so guarded.
Hip Hop Social Worker:
Yeah, it’s okay to be vulnerable, you know, it’s okay to cry, it’s okay. To, it’s okay to, you know, it’s okay to show emotion, you’re not weak, if you chart motion, you know, so you don’t have to always fight your way out of situations. You know, it’s, it’s just, you know, life is, life is long, you know, and I feel like, they don’t see that, how long life is because they’re, you know, they’re so young, and they like to, you know, they kind of impulsive, and, you know, but you know, I don’t know, like your life is long, and if you, if you, um, if you take the correct steps in, you know, and really just humanize yourself, then, you know, like, you might see better results, you know, but, but a lot of the youth that I work with our just like, our reacted to the system that they’re in, you know, like, you know, if you have a kid on my unit, you know, with the Byler Fender unit, you know, they have a lot of like, stigma that they know that, that they’re dangerous kids. And then they also have you have you have three staff per shift, you have me as the counselor, you have the case coordinator, you have the unit manager, you have the CEO you have lawyer, you have court system, so they have, like, so many things that are attached to them, you know, and it’s like, if you could just kind of like break down and like, just understand and just like feel that, you know, you’re stressed and this quick, kind of, like, be so tough and try to be so like, you know, all good just to say no, I’m stressed. You know? No, like, I’m stressed out right now. So, you know, it just, it just have the does have the ability to say that, you know, I’m stressed. I know, I know, I do have a few kids that will do that, you know, Sam but their stress. Mm hmm. You know, but they come into it. And they it is coated with like, you know, like all you know, saying like, yeah, I’m stressed that are like, you know, yeah, like, like, you know, like, I’m tired of this place, but I don’t do it anymore. You know, like, I bought the fight everybody, but it’s like, you got to go there. If you stress to say you’re stressed. You don’t say we’ll figure it out. But you got to come in here and act like you know, like, I’m tough and I’m bad. And you know, like, like, no, like, cuz, because Ain’t nobody, you know, saying. So yeah. So I was thinking just kind of like, understand that it’s okay to be stressed. You’re in stressful environment, and it’s okay to just say, Hey, I’m tired.
Dr. O
Mm hmm. Yes, it’s absolutely, I’m so important. And what you’re saying is what I’m hearing, it really is about, you know, the impact of, of your community, his surroundings, you know, feeling safe enough. So, you know, how can we encourage black families then, to encourage our blackness And to express their vulnerable side because, you know, you’re right. Like, if they’re aggressive or something, you know, we give them all types of labels, and make them feel all kinds of, of bad about, you know, maybe yelling or, you know, being angry, emotionally detached, but when they’re, you know, trying to be vulnerable or trying to express their, you know, more emotional side, we don’t embrace that, how can we do a better job of that, and I can imagine, if we did that, then they wouldn’t fill some, you know, so much anger, because after a while, anybody who keeps absorbing anger and frustration, things like that is going to explode.
Hip Hop Social Worker:
Yeah, I’m, really is. It’s such a disconnect in Oregon, because, you know, like, our kids want to connect with somebody that looks like them. You know, so for me, I’m the only person like in the facility, or one of the few people facility that that’s like, that looks like this, I might be the only one, I might be the only black therapist in the whole agency. So it’s like, so I feel like if if there was more staff that were able to like, like, really, like, get down to their level, and like, understand their culture and things like that, then they might feel more comfortable. But I’ve right right now feel like, you know, like these, these young males, you know, their survival mode right now? No, they’re just surviving. So, you know, so So, like, you know, I really, I really want to get to a place where, you know, we have groups and they can come into the group and just kind of let us in, like, let it all go and not be like, or not feel judged, or anything like that. But, you know, it takes time, but right now, I feel like there’s all survival mode, and, you know, just trying to survive and not, you know, get took advantage of and, you know, so Mm
hmm.
Dr O:
Very good. Yeah. That is, that is so true. And one of the things you kind of touched on, and I know, you know, I’ve heard you make references to and on your podcast as well is, you know, we’re doing something as with any system, you know, you have to operate within the confines of the system. And, you know, as we know, the Social Work field, the counseling field, the psychology field, all of that has been built, primarily all under the premises of white culture. And so then you have us kind of jump in there trying to see how we can, you know, utilize that education and that training and that resource to empower our own people making it culturally relevant and making it culturally sensitive.
Hip Hop Social Worker:
They, you know, a lot of the beautiful thing about like, using this type of platform to do is we don’t have to have as many conversations, you know, within like, we can connect with them. Just like we’re connecting with our with our ideal audience as well. So what would you say to someone who, really, because what, what I find is that, and you know, I’m not trying to be racist, or whatever, but what I find is you go into this field, because you care, like, you genuinely want to make a difference. So, you know, when we, when we think about things like racism, that’s typically frowned upon. But it’s really looked down upon in the counseling field, because we’re all about relationships, and understanding human behavior and biases and all that type of stuff. Yeah. So sometimes that makes the racism that we see in the counseling and social work, avenues even worse, right? Because now, you know, they really aren’t racist, because they’re trained, you know, they’re therapists, they, they’ve done all this work. So how would you How can you kind of speak to the need? Like, how do we address maybe a white therapist or social worker that might be listening to this, and really want to know how to connect with the black community?
Dr. O
But might be having these underlying racist things that they’re doing that makes it hard to do?
Hip Hop Social Worker:
Yeah. So really, just take a step back, you know, like, take a step back and really see like, Okay, how am I helping? Like, am I? Am I contributing to the system? You know, like, Am I being too hard? You know, saying because, like, I know, like, with a lot of whiteness comes perfectionism. Mm hmm. So like, Oh, my units, you know, shouldn’t have a tax system. And basically, all the fun stuff happens when you’re a high tech, you know, so it’s like, you got to be perfect to get to the high tech, you know, whatever, whatever. But, but anyway, you don’t feel like he’s just, you know, just taking a step back and like, really, like say, okay, like, like, how like, like, how am I how am I hurting this person? Or how am I helping this person, you know, like, Am I like, like, am I, you know, like, Am I in tune, you know, with their culture and their needs, you know, I’m saying like, like, Do I understand that, you know, like, You know, their lifestyle might look different. You know, I know, when I used to work with, um, you know, when I worked in this program, and we had a well to do council who would want to do our life, you know, I’m saying in cheek to make comments about, you know, like, these kids got too easy because, you know, whatever, whatever reason, you know, like, they have to do homework, you know, I’m saying like, you know, once a week, and they, and they never did it, he made a comment, like, you know, when I was a kid, you know, like, I do homework every night. And I was kind of like, well, we also have horses, right? So it’s like, so so it’s just different, you know, saying, like, so you got to really understand, like, you know, are you holding these kids to your standard of life? Or to their standard of life.
Dr. O
Right, yeah,
Hip Hop Social Worker:
You know, it’s like, it’s like, if, you know, like, if I worked with a trans client, or a homosexual client, you know, I’m saying like, like, like, I got to understand, like, their struggle, you know, and I got to understand, like, what it’s like to be in their shoes. I can’t have like, you know, the straight heterosexual lens trying to work right now. Right. So, so I mean, I really don’t have like a complete answer for that. But
Dr. O
No, I think you answered really well, and I’m going to kind of summarize what I heard because it’s kind of something to be concentrating on in my head. So it sounds like basically, you don’t have to, you know, use like the N word, or whatever to be racist against black people.
Hip Hop Social Worker:
Yes.
Dr. O
And that’s what people think a lot. Well, because I’m not not you know, lynching you. And because I’m not, you know, raping you and your daughters means that I’m not racist. But and that’s what
makes it hard these days. Because, because you might have people that are like Trump supporters.
Yeah.
Dr. O
Right. But But, you know, they’re not racist.
Hip Hop Social Worker:
Because, you know, because they don’t, you know, you know, cuz they see everybody using human, everybody in the person, but it’s like, like, you know, but you like, my experience is low key racism. Because you’re not, you’re not acknowledging, you know, I’m saying like that I show up different, you know, no matter what I’m showing the difference, you know, my skin is a, you know, is a warning sign, too. So,
yeah,
you know, you are not acknowledging that is like, you know, it’s like, you might as well call me the N word, you know, right.
Dr. O
Right. Well, I’d rather you do it, you know, I’ve always said I’d rather be, you know, know who the KKK is than your normal, regular, everyday white person who doesn’t see color. You know, that’s, that’s a really big one for me, and I don’t want to go too far off of this. But I do think this is important, because we all need to hear this. And that is, you know, I had a really, I had a really good close. Well, I thought professional friend who was Caucasian. Again, he was a white girl. But, you know, I mean, we’ve been supporting each other, while I’ve mostly supported her, because I was I was a contract therapist with her company, but she was making some business decisions that, you know, sometimes she needed to run it by someone, you know, I listened and I, you know, supported her, and I gave her feedback. But not only that, we have kids about the same age, we have husbands, we both, you know, are about the same age, we like the same things. And, I mean, we’ve connected we’ve laughed, we’ve cried, we’ve, we’ve just really shared a lot of emotional stuff.
Hip Hop Social Worker:
Um,
but um, you know, that we actually terminated our friendship when I started this podcast, you know, and this work, this type of work, and, you know, it just really kind of, I’m struggling with it, you know, I’ll be honest with you, because she is someone like I said, when you invest into someone emotionally, it is hard, you know, to deal with the termination of anything. And so, the fact that our, her commitment to not seeing color, and how insignificant color is to her, you know, our relationship couldn’t withstand it, cuz cuz, you know, how am I going to support her business? When she can’t, She doesn’t even believe in mine. Like, she doesn’t even see that necessity of it existing. Yeah. So anyway, I don’t want to take us away from our black men, but, you know, therapists of all colors of all sexualities, I’m glad you mentioned that all religions of all, whatever type of thing can be used to oppress people should really understand not only that oppression exists, but understand where their role is in that oppressive system, and what that potentially means. And that’s how you can be more effective in treating people who are different, yourself. Definitely, you got to step back and understand that your life isn’t their life. Exactly.
Hip Hop Social Worker:
You know, and if you’re, and if you’re a counselor or a therapist, you probably had a little, you know, like, Yeah, a little more going on in the person.
Now, that’s a hard one. For me, but I had to come to terms with that as well. Because, you know, I always wanted to rely on the fact that I’m black, you know, I’m female, I’ve had all these things, you know, my way, but when I really look at it, like, I’m a doctor, you know, I have a PhD and doesn’t mean to sound like I’m arrogant or definitely, you know, I’m not, I do not think I’m all that, okay. But I have to understand that that financial class meet, that means something to like, that’s going to separate me from Oh, girl, in the projects who’s probably as smart, if not smarter than I am, you know, with respect to how she’s been able to assess her resources. So when I’m working with a client from that population, I need to understand that she has an extra stressor on her that I’m not going to say that I don’t have, because it’d be in black money off carries a whole nother type of type of thing. But anyway, let’s get back to black man being vulnerable. How about that? Yeah, yeah. So, um, what do you see black men struggling the most around, um, about being vulnerable? And what can they learn from that?
Um, this, I feel like, it’s kind of a new thing. You know, like, your mental health push is so new. That, um, that, you know, we’re just getting to a place where we can kind of be open and honest, like, you know, like, like, I feel like, my answer is probably gonna be a little bit jaded. Because a lot of the black men that I like, know, professionally, you know, are therapists themselves. So, so like, so like, they, of course, they know that they can be vulnerable, you know, but to the average person, I feel like, there’s still like, stigma around, you know, like, all you know, I still gotta be tough is still like, being the man. So, but I feel like, but, but I feel like, you know, what we can learn from being vulnerable is that you don’t have to carry the, you know, like, you don’t have to carry everything all day, you know, like, you can be, you can let some of that stuff go, you know, like, like, it’s not really, you know, it’s not really helping us, he also gonna carry a lot of, you know, stress and anxiety that we have, you know, this is holding it up, you know, I feel like it’s killing us, honestly. You know, it’s, so I feel like, um, you know, if this having a space where we can kind of let everything go and kind of like, you know, just kind of just put everything on the table is, is, is really, like, beneficial, I know that there’s a therapist that I connected with, in Philadelphia, and he has a men’s group on Sundays, once like, like, once every month, and it’s just feel to the, you know, like, it’s just capacity, because, you know, I think, like, men are looking for space to do it. But it’s like, there’s not a lot of spaces for us to kind of, you know, go and have these sessions. But, you know, I do see a few more popping up, you know, I’m saying so, like, it’s good, you know, and I couldn’t start one in Portland, I just really haven’t had the time to sit down and you know, you know, figure it out. But, but, I mean, but we can learn it that, you know, like, we’re not in this world alone. Like, we’re not in this fight. alone. I feel like, you know, you know, what we were taught is that, like, you know, like, I feel like you mean, growing up, you know, what I was taught was, like, you know, the black man has it, you know, the worst, which, which, I mean, that’s debatable. I don’t want to get into that, but I’m saying but, but being, you know, but we don’t have to feel that burden alone. You know, like, you know, we can lean on our friends, you know, saying, and we can have a conversation, you don’t have to always talking about women and going out and all that stuff, you know, so we can talk about man, I’m stressing, I need somebody to listen to me for a minute, you know, and, and, you know, not having that it’s harmful. So I just, honestly feel like you know, being vulnerable, just kind of, it just makes your life a little bit more liberal, you know, worth living, you know, because you’re not carrying, you know, you’re not carrying all that stress, all that burden, all that weight. I mean, that kind of stuff, your weight, you know, I’m saying like, it is, you know, like, so like this summer or last year, I got laid off from my job. Yes, I heard that. And I remember that was like, I was messed up. And that took me you know, saying some time to kind of like get like, stages of that where I had to kind of like figure it out. But, but I say that to say, you know, like I was trying to carry the burden of like match, you know, the salary of when I was making them School District.
So had like five jobs.
That’s when I was contracted here contract and they’re working part time here. We’re part time there. I remember one day I just sat down I was like, You know what, I am not going to try to carry this burden of life. Being like the, you know, like the financial person in my marriage, right? I just, I’m gonna take this Job’s gonna pay a little bit less. Mm hmm. And I’m also doing a little bit of contracted, you know, two jobs, you know? Right. Right. So it’s not really to like, it’s one job, but like, you know, the other other contracts is pretty easy. So it’s not like, stressful. So I was like, I’m gonna just, you know, if I need help, I’m gonna just rely on my system to help me if I need it.
Though, in May, I’m gonna let all those other jobs go, Oh, that’s just oh, I really, it’s been lovely. You know, like, yeah, so, so yeah, but you know, but you know, me like, holding up that, you know, like, just that, like, all I gotta do this, I gotta do that. I gotta be a man that was, you know, that was killing me. You know, like, I was able to see it. She was like, Man, you are doing way too much? You know? Yeah. Yeah. So I had to just kind of let it go with just, you know, just kind of open myself up to be vulnerable, you know?
Dr. OSo.
Right. Right. So you’re absolutely right. And it’s it. First of all, I want to thank you for that. Because a lot of, you know, people who are listening to you, especially black men could be hearing you and don’t even realize that that’s what they’re doing. You know, yeah, and especially from a financial perspective, because I mean, let’s be real, like men we are taught that men are supposed to provide. So when you take that, and when that is compromised, I mean, that is like, that’s one of the worst things you can do. You know, and, and so, so and being sensitive to that. So when you add all the layers on top of it, which is, you know, black men are supposed to provide, but a lot of our black men, because of things out of their control, or because of our systems and cultures don’t even get proper training so that they can provide, and then they even if they do get a good job, you know, when they become like the president or the CEO, like if they get there, you know, what I’m saying? Which chances are, they probably won’t, you know, because racism is real. Yeah, I mean, they get there that they’re going to have extra stress and still get paid less, and, you know, all these types of things, we’re not really you know, and then let alone that, like I said, I started with their training, but even going to school, you know, like you said, Oh, boy, probably, you know, I don’t want to be too stereotypical. But, you know, a lot of times you might have maybe one parent in the home, and that parent is responsible for four kids, can’t really take the time to invest in you and with your homework. So it’s not that you or especially if you’re like the oldest, you might even be helping mom, take care of the three smaller kids, you know, there’s just so many different levels. And so that will impact, you know, your propensity to be able to survive. And sometimes, you know, making that quick money on the street, which you’ve seen 20 of your friends do is a lot more appealing than becoming the President of the United States. You don’t say, one black man Do you know? So? It’s a lie. It’s a lie. And, and I know you didn’t want to weigh on it too long. But I think we do get caught up in the comparison trap. Sometimes I will say, Oh, well, it’s harder to be like, Well, here’s the hardest to be the black man. The point is, I think that’s even the system trying to make us think that way. You know what I’m saying? Because if I actually listened to you, and heard how vulnerable you were, and if you listened to me, and heard how vulnerable I was, we could actually have a really strong connection, you know, we can actually really start doing some great things in the communities, but we just don’t, you know, a lot of times get the space to do that. It’s more of a competitive competition thing. We think about black women have this black men have this, and we don’t think about it boasts really sucks.
Dr. O
Yeah. Yeah. Um, Christopher, where would you direct our black men to look like if they’re in a space? You know, they know they’re not in a good space, making a lot of bad choices, dealing with some things that sometimes seem incredibly overwhelming, like racism, sexism, you know, socioeconomic status issues, what type of resources are available to them to tap into?
Hip Hop Social Worker:
Well, I mean, I know a lot of social media resources. So like, this page called Black Man, Heal follow Instagram. Also, the Melanated Social Work.
Dr. O
Yeah.
Yeah. That, that, that, that, that page of that one, they have a lot of like, good things to say. And they have, like, you know, in you know, therefore, those are for black male therapists that are like in different parts of the country. So it’s free. Yeah. So like, I’m really just, um, I mean, that’s, that’s a hard question to answer to like cuz it really depends on where you’re at, you know, saying I would like to We know like what I would do really, like, if you need a therapist and you want a black one, I really would just start on google and type in black therapists, you are a woman therapist or brain, whatever therapist, you know, Google because Google like, even though like, it sounds like simple, everybody would do it. But, but but also like, I mean, he doesn’t, because a lot of people don’t do it that way. Cuz,
Hip Hop Social Worker: Right. So Well, let me just plug this real quickly. Because I know I haven’t even shared this with you. I’ve hardly shared with anybody, but I am trying to get the word out. Now. We’re actually starting a directory as well. So pretty soon if you’re a black therapist, just know, you know, is here available, come look on our website, but we’re gonna I’m gonna start sending like invitations out to people. And you know, and this is official invitation invite people to join as well. So yeah, because you know, it’s important. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, it’s important that to let people know that we’re here. We’re available. We want we want to work with them.
Yeah, sure. So you know, and so you got to know that there’s therapists out there that look like you if that’s what you want. People don’t care some people. I’ve seen who everyone listening.
Hip Hop Social Worker:
Right, right. You know, be careful.
Dr. O
Be careful, I’m telling you I have seriously harmed. Like, I don’t still want to spend five minutes explaining to you why I have what locking my hair means. You know why I have to do that,
you know, to say? Or, like, more like, are you sure that was racism?
I want to bypass all.
Hip Hop Social Worker:
Yeah.
Yeah. That’s because I just traumatized me.
traumatic, traumatic. I don’t see color one. So yeah. Yeah. What are some myths, though, that we have in the black community around being vulnerable for black men
that were that we don’t like, be affected by mental health. I’m saying like, you know, that I’m gonna have an effect. It’s like, oh, man, you know, we don’t, we don’t kill ourselves for that, you know, like, that’s what we’re too strong for. Like, I mean, it sounds good. But not sometimes when you gotta, you know, go through pain to go through pain. And it’s alright, to not be strong enough to help. And, you know, are that, you know, saying that we got to do it by ourselves, we can’t lean on anybody to help. So, you know, those are the two ones that I, you know, that I’m trying to, you know, help break down. Especially the one that were too strong for this or that it’s like, by now, like suicide affects everybody. Depression affects everybody. All this anxiety, you know, saying there’s a lot of people you know, that are, you know, that you got to walk around anxiety every day, and they don’t know, you know, so, you know, like, I know, like, you know, I talked to like, some young men that are in gangs, and they say, you know, and like, you know, it didn’t have this term, you know, I’m saying like, I’m always on to toes, it’s like, Well, that sounds like a value to me. Yeah. Yeah. Sounds like me. So, you know,
Dr. O
so, you broke it down to the clinical term?
Hip Hop Social Worker:
Yeah. Right. Right.
Dr. O
Um, how would you say, you know what, I want to go to that in a second, I wanted a quick, just thinking about this, I was supervising some, some, some students who were coming into the counseling world, and they were at a school. But I remember, you know, one thing the school did was anytime there was a school shooting, and that’s a whole another issue, but the school will kind of come together, and they process and they talk about their mourning, and just how difficult it was to know that these things were happening to their peers. And, you know, one of the things that the counselor was supervisor brought up was that she did have a really hard time connecting with the black boys. And I just broke my heart because I’m like, these are kids. You know, these are children and I respect the therapists so much for bringing it to my attention, you know, because it’s when you don’t see color, and you don’t recognize it. That’s when that’s an issue. Yes, she she really did tell me, you know, how bad how hard it was for her to confront her own biases, because she thought this eight year old boy who was black see, you know, an eight year old black boy cry was just so unfamiliar to her.
Hip Hop Social Worker:
Yeah, but it’s like, you know, we can’t you know, if I know that, well, why don’t why can’t we, you know, I can’t wait, you know, like, why is that? You know, like, why is that such a shock is you know, yes, kudos to her you know, yeah, because, cuz you know, that is it sometimes that’s like the you know, that’s what we perpetuate is like, you know, saying like, Nah, like, you know, I don’t want to cry and I’m like, so like, you know, some of that can be like, you know, like a little my kids at work. You know, like a lot of staff are scared a little. It’s like, it’s like, you know, if you didn’t walk around here like so like on edge You know, like, you know, like, if I would be scared, you know, double edged sword, you know, I’m saying like, you know, saying they think they scare them because they like, and they think and they asked them, you know cuz it was gonna be scared. Right? So it’s like a double edged sword so like, you know, like so I try to tell people, like, you have to give a little to get a little Mm hmm. You know, love it love it
Dr. O
love it, how do you think our history kind of affects the way we review work the way we view black men being vulnerable by history, I’m talking about the institution of slavery.
Hip Hop Social Worker:
Um, I feel like it affects it because just see, just just because, like, when everybody else is stressed, you know, saying like, the man can be stressed, you know, I’m saying so. So I feel like it was like, you guys kind of had this, you know, protector role and a protector role is kind of like, you know, um, you know, like, the shut up and work type. If I okay, like, go to work, don’t show weakness. No, be the be the protector, but at the same but, but in reality that that really kind of put us in a box like, Well, you know, we can’t show any vulnerable to 81. You know, and also like, you know, slave mentality. It’s like, gentlemen, tell me, you know, what I was telling you about what the kid said about, you know, about how he doesn’t want to, you know, put that burden on his friends, because his friend is stressed out too often imagine, like, back in slave days, like if you know, you know, they would do you get the five minutes to talk to somebody, it’s like, what are you talking like, white tells me for? I got the same problem. So it’s just, you know, there’s no like definite answer, but it does. It is it is complex, ya know, and I feel like, you know, like, a shut up in Word mentality has trickled down from generations, you know,
Dr. O
very good. Thank you for that. Thank you. I’m gonna wrap it up. I just want to just ask you a quick question about a part of the show that’s called What’s good? Is that okay, for you? Sure. All right. What we do at this time is just give a hypothetical situation and I want to get your expert feedback on this. Okay, meet Lawrence Lawrence is a 22 year old black male with two children. He is single, but has had several relationships with women that have not worked out, he has noticed a woman he wants to date perspective, he cannot see himself getting close to another woman with him feeling the way he did, he feels he wants to cry, often, but he knows that men are supposed to cry, especially black man, but he can take us to feel overwhelmed with sadness. How would you advise Lawrence?
Hip Hop Social Worker:
I would advise Lawrence that what he’s feeling is normal. I mean, but I will, like you know, wanting to cry is normal and it’s a normal emotion. And we will try to I will really try to figure out you know, saying like, what has happened with these relationships that is blocking you from either one get close to another woman, you know, you know, it just really kind of like help help build them up. So he doesn’t have to feel like, you know, he doesn’t have to cry. You know, like it really explained like, you know, you hold that in, it’s probably like you hold that in is is is weighing on you you don’t say like it’s probably taking years off your life because oh, yeah, no, cuz it’s balled up in you, you know, say and when you let it go, I mean, crying is releasing. Yes, it is crying is releasing in its release on whatever, if it’s releasing grief is releasing stress is releasing anxiety. And depression is releasing whenever you feel, you know, fear, which release of fear. So like, so yeah, just, you know, like, in in black men cry, that is a myth we that we do not cry. You have to Yes. Everybody cries, you know, so? Yeah, I would, I would just try to, you know, try to humanize experience. Because, you know, he’s not a robot. So,
right.
Dr. O
Absolutely. I love your feedback. And I’m sure my, my listeners will too. So before I let you go, can you just tell them where they can find you.
Hip Hop Social Worker:
You can go to www.hiphopsocialworker.com and that has all my podcast videos that I’ve gotten. I’ve gotten into videos lately. I’ve been doing videos, contact information. I finally got like my first like, public speaking gig later this year. Also, you know, so hopefully that leads to more you know, so yeah, so But you know, I got you know about stuff that I provide a little bit about myself. Things like that. So, yeah, go to hip hop, social worker, calm. Awesome. We can’t overlook that your Instagram page.
Yes.
Dr. O
Yes. Add hip hop social worker.
Love it.
Dr. O
Love it. Well, it’s been an honor today. I like so so psyched that you came on. It’s been a little bit of a journey but you made it and I just really am glad that you came on today. Thank you so much. Thank you appreciate it. Absolutely. Good luck to you. I’m gonna continue to follow you listeners followers. Please follow this man. Well, he’s got some great stuff going on, or Thank you. You’re welcome. Thanks again for your time.
Hip Hop Social Worker:
Take care. All right. Bye