Dr. O:
Hello, hello, hello and welcome to the Black Marriage and Family Therapy Matters podcast where we connect black families to black therapists. All right, so we know many of you have had this question from the beginning of time when you found out about counseling, if you know much about it at all, and that is, can you go to counseling and also have a relationship with the churc So today I have a special guest who is going to speak exclusively off of that, and we like to introduce her to you at this time. So hi, Elder Bennett.
Elder Tawanda Bennett:
Hi, how are you and everybody that is joining us?
He is doing fantastic. Okay, so I’m gonna just introduce you on one our lovely guests to know about all the amazing work that you do, and then we’re gonna jump right in. Is that okay?
Elder Tawanda Bennett:
Yes, ma’am.
Dr. O:
Elder Bennett has a passion for serving and meeting the needs of others. She received her cosmetology license in 2002 and managed her own hair salon. In 2006. God gave Elder Bennett a vision that was much greater than what she could ever possibly foreseen for herself. Elder Bennett continues to pursue that vision that God had trusted her with and started by completing her bachelor’s degree in human services, and obtaining a master’s degree in mental health counseling in 2012, from Webster University. Elder Bennett is a licensed clinical addiction specialist. Elder Bennett currently has a private practice entitled Why Not Me Services, which she operates in as a mental health and substance abuse agency. Elder Bennett, attained her 501 c three, and uses the vision to promote her company Win Community Center, which is an inpatient treatment facility for substance users and trauma focus center for sexual and emotionally abused children and their mothers. Elder Bennett is also receiving her degree in theology at Liberty University. Elder Bennet was an ordained minister in 2013, an elder in 2015, and an associate pastor in 2016. Elder Bennett has a mandate from God, and a passion to see individuals and families strengthened by building resilience and character, and by promoting strategies to improve cognitive processes and behaviors to build healthier relationships. Her motto is “changing generations one day at a time.” Elder Bennett’s life is driven by God’s unconditional mercy and grace, in which Elder Bennett chooses to model desire to see lives prospering physically, mentally, psychologically, and truly from an eclectic, holistic, approach. Wow, that is some bio Elder Bennett.
Elder Tawanda Bennett:
Thank you
Dr. O:
You’re very, very welcome. So before we start, can you just tell me you know, what got you into this work as someone with both a theology interest and a counseling interest?
Elder Tawanda Bennett:
When it came to my spirituality, I wasn’t raised in the church at all my parents when they’re raised in the church, either just experiences in life and later on going through a lot of um, traumatic experiences, emotional, and abuse, and a whole lot of other things. My mom later on did find Christ within ourselves. And she actually exemplified that to the family. With her exemplifcation of that, it caused me to realize you know, that there had to be more than life. If I configure change, then by all the way I will live in I should as well but it was just a miraculous experience; it’s unexplainable; it’s one that you just have really have to experience on your own. But going further than that, I was involved in a marriage. I was married 14 years, and it ended in divorce. Throughout my marriage, there was a lot of things that went on in the marriage, a lot of substance abuse, a lot of mental anguish, as well. So just throughout my experiences of just been married… just life itself, just dealing with day to day situations. And me finding myself as a cosmetologist, a lot of people will always come to me for directions, and they always come to me for guidance. And I was like, Lord, well, since people always come to me, I need to take what you’ve given to me and be able to apply it. Why not get paid for what people love to do come to me for? Why not get paid to give people what they need? And so the pursuit was on from then on and one thing led to another.
Dr. O:
Very good. First of all, I just want to thank you for that openness and honesty about your own life because we’re both women of color. And I think that you know, and I’m really interested in hearing from you about your perspective on this, but I think that we have been taught that you do not put out your dirty laundry. You do not tell anybody, you know, if you going through something, you deal with it. And we really don’t look, we all think go to the church. You know, I think that’s something that we all have been encouraged to do. But we just don’t… we definitely are not taught to make it in a professional setting… from a counselors perspective. And I just… want Can you speak to that like about maybe why someone who is going through something like what you went through?
Elder Tawanda Bennett:
And I really believe in that is such a great an awesome question that you did ask. But I really believe transparency is everything. People want people to be able to relate to people that they’re feeling comfortable with. A lot of times, we want to build rapport with our clients. But I am a firm believer that the only way we can actually build that rapport with our clients is to be relational by being transparent. I know we don’t share everything with every client. But if the need is there, then so be it. And that way we build that rapport. As far as the church I really think as for the black community, the embarrassment, the stigma, the stereotype that is attached to real life, people don’t like to talk about life, they don’t like to mask it, they like to cover it up. And the reason why because we’d like to present something that we are not. And because we’d like to present something that we’re not we have this facade, that everything is okay, when is actually not. Because we as African Americans, we have to fight through so much in life. We want people to see our strength, we want people to see our greatness, therefore, they don’t want to be shown to be weak. So we cover we it up. Yes, and a lot of times we cover up by going to church. We go to search,we shout, we pray, God, we get the word. And we’re still pretending, you know. We go to the altar, we confess and once we confess, we go out the door and we think everything is going to be alright. But no, it takes us actually expressing what we’re going through to someone like a therapist. Even someone like a pastor, somebody you can go to what people just really do not like to give out their garbage because they’re trying to live up to everybody’s expectations of who they think they supposed to be. And we live in everybody else’s dream outside of our own because we’re pretending Absolutely. Want me to carry on?
Elder Tawanda Bennett:
Okay, but what I have learned, because I’ve been to several churches. And it is really embarrassing, sometimes whenever you go to a church and you see a minister preaching up their preaching, and they say you don’t need counseling, all you need is Jesus. That is so far fetched. God said himself that he was a mighty counselor. And if that was what he was, that way he his fitness would be as well. And so with that being said, we’re not dealing with the real issues, we got people that go to church that are depressed, and they’re leaving depressed. And they don’t know how to overcome depression, they don’t know how to overcome their anxiety. And they need to be taught through of the know how, because pray through your way through is not gonna cause you to be healed. It’s a lifestyle. And we got to have strategies… be taught strategies because guess what? We can be, we can be the delivered…. we can be set, free. But guess what, it’s gonna take maintenance. We got to build to do what works.
Dr. O:
You know, what, what amazes me? What amazes me, Elder Bennet about where you coming from is you can go to that same church, and they’ll they’ll have you pray for the sick and shut in. And they’ll tell you how so and so is doing at the doctor and doing you know, in whatever type of cancer maybe they might have or whatever. So they fully understand that God creates doctors to help what people’s physical illness, but won’t acknowledge that there’s people available, God created these same people to help with people’s mental illnesses.
Elder Tawanda Bennett:
You know, What Dr. O… You know, this is 2020 now and I think a lot of pastors, I think a lot of teachers eyes are being opened into the facts now. Even here and now even as I listen to people over the internet on YouTube, the preachers, I think about TD Jakes I think about Steven Federnick. Yeah, a lot of those people are actually preaching from a psychology background, I actually going back to school for nothing, and getting some psychology and teaching, you know, so the eyes are being open and because they are being aware, you know, there’s a lot of people that come into a church they’re attending and these issues they’re dealing with their see that they’re leaving and they’re coming back the same. So it’s got to be another stop thinking that. Yes, so the eyes are becoming open. Awareness is everything and I’m thinking now, the year that we’re in, there eyes are open and they’re realizing you know what, there’s a deeper depth of what we got to do as far as just coming to church and think of people leave it and they’re gonna come back the same.
Very good.
Dr. O:
Thank you for that. Let me ask you to also speak a little bit to say she can play, you know, both roles as a clinician and as a pastor, what in my dissertation, one of the things that came up is that black people simply still, even though you’re saying it, you know, it changes is the pastors are becoming more progressive, etc, black people still find comfort in the church and I don’t, for one second want to, minimize the value that the church does bring in terms of offering solidarity and support and resources for the black community. So what happens? What How could you advise maybe a pastor that might be listening to this that fully fully wants to help his congregation and the congregation that might fully believe in their pastor? Like, would you recommend any type of training, or whatever for our pastors to get that both biblical, and clinical, with a little bit more scientific backing so that the things that they can say won’t necessarily be biased based off of the pastor’s opinion, and more or less useful for, you know, the people who really trust them, but then what they think?
Elder Tawanda Bennett:
Right, right, great, great, great question. You know, what, just being transparent, I, I’ve experienced the very thing that you’re actually saying, I will go to church, seriously, just dealing with my divorce all within itself. At one point in my life, I never really dealt with the divorce, I went to church, and ministry was my total focus. It was as I had done, suppressed everything. And I was so engulfed in ministry, that I didn’t even have time to even just deal with it at all. So I’m reaching out to people, and mentors them to people, and I’m doing all these things, but I’m never dealing with the issues at hand. Yes, exactly. And as far as just going to church, that’s what we do time and time and time again, we get so busy, we get so caught up to the fan, whenever you get home, you’re tired, you ain’t got time to think about it, because you done exhausted yourself in so many ways. And even if you’re not exhausting yourself, you actually you have leaders that are actually depressed in the pullpit because they’re not dealing with their stuff.
Dr. O:
I can’t think of who it was but one of these really big pasters, he was a caucasian, man, I’m gonna look him up and put in the show notes. But he just committed suicide.
Elder Tawanda Bennett:
They’re not dealing with their stuff. They’re not, they’re sweeping it up on the rug, because they’re just trying to portray an image because so many people are looking up to them, but self care. But to answer your question to go along, I would say as far as pastors, I would say, as far as myself, even right now, I am an individual myself that I know needed counseling. She asked me if I counsel her, and I said no, because I didn’t want to get in between, you know, as far as get into… I wanted a second opinion. So she just wouldn’t be able to get all her answers from me, you know, because sometimes as the leaders, people can become too dependent upon us. And then to actually be know how to actually go out and get answers on the outside referred her to an outside source. And I think as leaders, we should be so confident within ourselves that we’re willing to refer them to a counselor that speaks volunes to a Pastor… it really does… to say, you know, what, I’m not expertin this area. I don’t know it all. But I know someone that can actually help you. And pastors and leaders, they should go out, get the extra information, take extra classes in psychology… get to know the mechanisms of the brain and have the brain really functions because they all go hand to hand together. Just like my philosophy is, you know, your mind, your soul and your spirit. One guess what spiritually is in the church physically is another thing, emotional faculties psychologically, it’s another thing, but you got to know how to approach in every angle. It’s not all one fits its solution. And I’ll say it again, it’s not a one in all solution. It’s resources out here. And we as leaders, we have to link and coordinate individuals to where they need to be and not think we have all the answers.
Dr. O:
Very good. Someone that I’ve interviewed for this podcast as well pretty much spoke to that as well. It’s from the perspective of Dr. Dr. Williams. He’s actually going to be coming up in a few some future episodes, but he was saying that, you know, you take what the leader gives you and if it works, use it. If it doesn’t work, don’t use it. Don’t feel like just because a person is in a position of power, or in this case is a minister, that they necessarily have all the answers, especially when we know that they’re human too. You know, they’re human. I want to pop something real quickly. And we’re just starting this Elder Bennett, but we have a directory on our website. And it’s for licensed clinicians, so people who want to advertise their practice on the website are free to do so. But we have affiliate memberships, and one of the people that we have affiliated with is ZurInstitute, and they offer continuing education courses as well. So I wanted to say that now, because if you know, if a pastor is listening to this, and, you know, genuinely wants to help their congregation with some of the mental health issues, you know, I mean, it’s great to have a license, you know, if you want to practice independently, but even if you just want to practice having some support, but without going through all the schooling, and getting all the education, please go to get some continuing education, and through our service, you can get 10% off and doing that, but honestly, continuing education credits, five credits here, 10 credits, they’re 20 credits, whatever, you know, adds up, and helps you become more more competent. And I’ll say, even for me in my practice, not that I don’t use my degree, but I really see us based off with the type of clients that I’m working with. And that is, you know, what we want you to do, like, if you are going to be in a position here, you know, the research shows that the black community still often goes to the black church leaders. And so it’s rather irresponsible to be in that position, and to be providing this feedback and not getting the help. So I wanted you to know that I we offer it on our company. But if you don’t want to go through us just go somewhere, you know, and get that support. Because if you really are trying to step into your purpose that God has put you on, and then you need to be helping people with correct information. Do you agree with that?
Elder Tawanda Bennett:
Absolutely. Totally know about that? Yes.
Dr. O:
Are there any resources that you think I want you to go back to to yourself? And before we get to the resource question, I just want to say, I didn’t know myself, I mean, I knew a little bit about your marriage, and you know, I’m gonna be respectful of your privacy. But I’ll say, as someone looking from the outside, in, you’ve always just carried yourself very, very well. And I think that’s what you’re kind of speaking to, you know, like, I didn’t know, really what was going on in, etc. And I just think that you’ve done that very well. So I guess what I wanted to say is why change that, like, if people are functioning? Because you know, what we do know about behavior, human behavior is that for something to change, they have to see a benefit to it. In other words, so, you know, it was working you You look good, you know, you’ve lost weight, you get up there, you preach, you got political work, you got this businesses going on, like, how do you get from that place? of, Okay, I’m making it, I’m handling it to, okay, I have to do something different, like I have to, I have to get help?
Elder Tawanda Bennett:
You know, something, as a leader, because of this facade, because of what you want other people to view you as, it’s easy to get caught up and just going through the motions very easily. And you can go through the motions, and you can be depressed, I wouldn’t know really how to relate to a depressed person unless I wasn’t depressed, you know. So sometimes on the outside, you have that facade, but when you go home, that’s a totally different story. You know, and just being a leader, and on the outside looking one way, but on the inside, just feeling certain types of ways. It just should not be. I mean, in therapy, we talk about self care all the time. And you went back and you said about the pastor that committed suicide and this is exactly why he looked great on the outside, he was still maintaining and doing the things he needed to do but on the inside, when it’s yours, you and your thoughts that go through your mind. Just being able to wake up out of the bed in the morning times. I can remember times I’m just having a scripture this calls and just to push me out of the bed, but from the moment me getting out the bed. Nobody knew it was a struggle for me, no matter what me once I got up out the bed. Guess what? I was good when the bed was good. But getting out the bed was the hard part.
Elder Tawanda Bennett:
And it was sometimes you know, people, sometimes you begin to slack in your work, you’re not up to par where you need to be in your work. You could see it, people might not see it, they may see it but they’re not gonna address it. Just based upon who you are the title that you are, but it affects every area of your life. And just having that outlet. And as a leader, we don’t want to expose ourselves because then we feel vulnerable, then people are not gonna look up to us anymore, then people will not respect us anymore. So it’s like, okay, so who do I talk to? Who can I share with? Who is it that I can trust? You Know? But find a therapist where you can release when you can be open and begin to confess those deep parts that you need to talk with. So you can actually be transparent to them. So they can actually help you in those areas. In where I’m at now, I’m telling you, I have pastors, I have youth leaders that come to therapy, and they’re talking to me, nobody knows, nobody knows what they’re going through. Nobody knows. But I am just so thankful that I’m in a position where I’m able to talk to these individuals and not sit in judgment, you know, to help them to be able to get through it and to process.
Dr. O:
Mm hmm. I just said, I love this. And that. And when I hear you even speak like this, you know, I’ve met you through my mother, my mother has told me this about you just about how contagious and infectious your spirit is. And I think you remember this, but I believe I reached out to you, maybe six or seven years ago, when I was going through my own personal journey in terms of having a baby. And you were just so inviting and welcoming through to me in that process. And you know, I remember you just prayed with me and used your faith, it was just so refreshing, you know, and I didn’t feel judged by you. I didn’t feel you know, as a black woman, we supposed to be just pushing our babies left and right. So a little bit of a hole that we you know, I didn’t feel supported. And so it was very refreshing for me to get that in you. And I can and I’m just saying. So I see why people in your church would trust you and want to go to you and get it. Yeah. Yeah. So is there Yeah. Okay, sounds good. So, let’s move this on a little bit. Don’t want to take up all of your time. But we still have some listeners here, who would benefit from knowing what to look for. And I say that because you mentioned earlier, as black as the black community, we have so many different things to go that goes on… And the church has historically, I mean, in slavery, that was literally the only resource we had, okay, to separate from the oppression that we were experiencing. So we’ve learned some and there wasn’t much that could be done in other than prayer, you know, like you couldn’t get no counseling you couldn’t even marry. You know, you couldn’t even have sex with your wife at night without fear that the master, you know, might want his turn, so. So we don’t know a lot of times what to look for. So you mentioned so once you go over the symptoms. You mentioned like not being able to get out of the bed, what are some other things that people might be experiencing, and our brothers and sisters might be experiencing, but not even know that they need professional help beyond just what they can get from the church.
Elder Tawanda Bennett:
One thing I think one important sign that sticks out among a lot of things that I can think of is just the isolation. Whenever you find yourself and you know that you’re an individual that is a social person that likes to engage. If you find yourself whereby you want to isolate yourself, that is a red flag that is a red… alll in of itself… right there. And not only isolation, but when you find yourself or you become fearful, I may not say fearful because you know, there’s things you know, you can be in life and you can enjoy life, but all of a sudden, it seems like you step back from life because of if I do did this might happen. If you can sit back and you think about your mindset and you notice that you’re not thinking the way you used to think about things if you find yourself not being as optimistic, you find yourself being pessimistic. If you just find those behaviors that are opposite of who you know you are, and it’s time for you to step back to resent Examine yourself and ask yourself, why? Why am I behaving different? Why am I talking different? Why is it even while I’m changing the people that I’m associating myself with? Why is it that I’m not wanting to associate myself with these individuals anymore, so nobody knows you better than you. And if You know, notice negative changes appearing in your life and they’re not always negative changes, it can be, I’m telling you some good changes to take, but they’re not being a field show.serving the changes that are taking place in your life, and it ain’t gotta be always a whole bunch of things at one time, it can be just that one thing that can be major in your life that you see, that has changed in your life. So you got to continually everyday observe who you are, and what things are changing in order to actually to be able to identify some of the symptoms and behaviors, why am I acting the way I”m acting? And why am I saying what I’m saying? Why I’m associating? Or am I not associating? So just take a look at the changes that are occurring in your life and whether they’re good or bad?
Dr. O:
Right? I’m glad you mentioned isolation as a good symptom, because I think a lot of times again, we like to hide like we like to pretend sometimes that it’s other people like, Oh, well, I don’t want to be around people, because they don’t, you know, all they do is talk about people and there’s nothing positive or etc, etc. But sometimes it’s like, No, these people are reminding you about some stuff that you’re not trying to deal with
Elder Tawanda Bennett:
Yes, yes.
Dr. O:
Yes. And it’s easier for you to withdraw and be by yourself, because then you can hide. Then you don’t have to address what’s really going on?
Elder Tawanda Bennett:
Exactly.Yes.
Dr. O:
Not to put you on the spot. But is there like a scripture that really stands out in your head or maybe a character in the Bible or even a book in the Bible? That could just speak to could speak a little bit to the need to get some professional help? Or to handle your mental your mental illness or mental challenges? professionally?
Elder Tawanda Bennett:
Yes, absolutely. The Scripture, the Scripture, and it’s actually in my biography, you actually said it, I’ll actually be in I actually didn’t go Scripture with it, because I try not to be so I’m, I’m just the type of individual and my counseling process, I know where I am spiritually, but I know everybody is not not. So I don’tapproach counseling in that aspect. If you say we have in a conversation and you allow me to see, you know, you’re very spiritual person, and that is what you want, then that is what I give. So it’s just according to each person, so I try not to just over exaggerate that aspect.
Dr. O:
You don’t shove it down people’s throat.
Elder Tawanda Bennett:
No, no, not at all. Right.
What is that? What were What did I say? Because I want to make sure my audience knows specifically, this comes from spiritual doctrine. Do you remember?
Yes, yes, absolutely. Yes, absolutely. Where you was wasn’t your motto is changing generations, one day at a time? Mentally, physically and spiritually, and emotionally. In the scripture for that is, “I wish above all that you prosper, be in good health, even as your soul prospers.” And that covers every aspect of your life.
Oh, my goodness. Can you say it one more time?
Elder Tawanda Bennett:
That comes from 3rd John
Uh huh.
Elder Tawanda Bennett:
Chapter one, verse two, and it says, “beloved, I wish above all things that you prosper being good help, even, as your soul prospers.”
You just said a mouthful. So God has given us permission to do specifically what we talking about. We don’t have to hide. We don’t have to pretend it’s okay. We don’t have to act like life is perfect. We can step out and get the help. Is that correct?
Yes. Okay. Absolutely.
Elder Tawanda Bennett:
Yes, amazing.
Dr. O:
Amazing. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for that. Now we’re going to transition to a part of the show that’s called WHAT’S GOOD? WHAT’S GOOD? Is a part of the show where we apply the information that we have learned, and we put it into real life scenarios for our listeners. Are you ready?
Yes.
Dr. O:
Okay. Meet Vanessa. Vanessa is a 37 year old African American woman who has been married for 14 years. She has two children and works as a teacher. While her pursuit of marriage has been very traditional. She married her high school sweetheart and waited to have children with her husband. Their marriage has been anything short of perfect. However, on the outside, the two are often seeing having lavish dinners and her husband is a Successful politician who makes well over six figures and supports their family. However, inside she knows that her husband has had at least three sexual relationships with other women during the marriage, and she has heard that there may be a baby on the way. She knows that if he could, she could sit as divorce, she would face shame and embarrassment from her family in church. However, she’s miserable with living her life this way. She often cries himself to sleep, if she barely eats, sometimes only consuming one meal per day. She wants to get professional counseling, but she knows her pastor will not support her idea of divorce, how would you advise her,I would advise this young lady in regards to there’s a lot going on in this marriage?
Elder Tawanda Bennett:
Whenever it comes to the church, I would say this. As Christians, we have to learn to think for ourselves. Number one, we really got to learn to think for ourselves. And I say this, because sometimes we can put our leaders in the position of God. Because we begin to believe in their belief system, and it becomes a religion. And based upon that, we’re not able to make sound decisions for our personal lives. There are some things in life, I’m telling you, he’s not going to give the man of God he’s not. He’s going to give it to the for us and for us to make a decision. Just because the pastor say don’t divorce, you know, even in this particular situation, you know, there there are reasons for divorce. The Bible says this, it says, you know, he said no divorce itself for adultery, guess what? Our husband, her husband is cheating on her. He’s cheated on her multiple times. And she knows he’s cheating. And she knows what that is. But when I tell her some divorce, no, I would never tell anyone to divorce anybody that would be a decision, they make them sale. And encourage them to come to family counseling, to see if they resolve I would never buy to make any rash decision at all. Come to the talk about it. It may be a reason why he’s cheated on her. Maybe it’s no she’s not doing that she should be doing come together, talk about it, and find out in differences that are going on within the family. So it can resolve you know, for sure, you know, to think for yourself, I hear what your pastor is saying, but this is your life, your lighting, this is your life. And at the end of the day, you can’t live for your leader, you got to live for yourself. Wow, do you want your marriage to work? Or do you not want it to work? We know it takes two is your husband, your husband? Let him know I love you. And I want this to work, you know, because she’s happy. She’s depressed?Yes, she can’t even functionone meal a day, you know, lay in the bed, she’s depressed. So she needs help. She’s been going to church, and I’ve been working, if it has, she might be still in the situationshe’s in, you know. So just being able to make her aware of all the signs, even for her own health, what she’s going through the signs of not eating the signs of losing weight, all those terms, aware of that, and then allow her to see. Okay, so I heard the big question, you know, do you want your marriage to work? And just taking it something and seeing it for husband would be willing to go to family counseling? Does he want it to work? You know? I mean, you can go at it at so many different angles, but at the end of the day, out force, anything on anyone, what do you want? What do you want to see happen? And then we go from there.
Dr. O:
Amazing, amazing. Elder Bennet, you have been an inspiration not only to my listeners, but also myself. You brought so much stuff from your professional practice snf your spiritual practice. And I just thank you know. I know I’m speaking on behalf of many people who, who needed your wisdom today. Thank you so much.
You’re so welcome. So welcome.
Dr. O:
All right, have a great day and be blessed
You do the same and thank you for this great opportunity.
Dr. O:
Amazing. Take care. Bye bye.