Welcome to the black Marriage and Family Therapy matters podcast where we connect black families to black therapist. On Mondays, you will receive direct therapeutic support from a licensed therapist or professional connected to the mental health field. They will provide therapeutic and educational resources to help you have a healthier relationship with your family members. On Wednesdays, you will receive direct tips and resources to help you get through the stuck places that prevent many people from having relationships with their families and significant others that they desire. On Fridays, we want you to visit our blog which can be found at WWW dot black MFT matters.com which holds additional resources and action steps that you can begin implementing immediately to improve your relationships. This is necessary because we love that you are listening. But we want you to take action to while you are there. Please grab our A to Z relationship bootcamp and be provided with the skills you need to immediately communicate better within your relationships. Please note that while the therapists on podcasts are therapists, they do not serve as your therapist unless you have signed a confidential agreement with them confirming that relationship. Thank you in advance for listening. And we hope you are inspired. All right. It’s time for the show. Here is your host, Dr. Connie Omari.
Dr. Connie Omari
Hey, hey, hey, welcome to the black Marriage and Family Therapy matters podcast where we connect black families to black therapists. Today’s therapist is Letisha Ellis.
Latisha Ellis LPC
Hi, Letisha.
Dr. Connie Omari
Hi. How are you doing?
Latisha Ellis LPC
I’m doing well.
Dr. Connie Omari
Very good. Very good. Well, I’d like to introduce you to our listeners if that’s okay. All right. Awesome. So Leticia is mission is to help her clients thrive. Leticia brings compassion, mindfulness and no judgments to every therapy session. Leticia is hope for her clients is to help them conquer challenges, or hear from CO heal from current or past pain. Leticia wants people, especially parents, to be mindful of their own needs and create a space in your family in life for honesty, respect in growth. Awesome. Leticia. I’ve introduced you to our guests or to our listeners. And I’d like to ask you if you have anything you’d like to add to that?
Latisha Ellis LPC
Yeah, sure. I obviously have licensed therapists in Georgia and Florida. And I primarily work with high conflict co parents that have gone through divorce or are, you know, just never been together, but they have children together. And so I’m just there to NAV help them navigate how to co parent successfully without creating a lot of trauma and damage towards the children for the children.
Dr. Connie Omari
Love it. Love it. Very good. So just want to clarify, I’m with us, because I’m also a therapist licensed in multiple states. But to be clear, that means you can serve as clients who are in Georgia and Florida, correct? Correct. Okay. And I believe and we’ll go into this a little bit at the end, but then I see on your website that you offer coaching as well. I do. Awesome. So that’s pretty much anywhere. Yes. Awesome. Very good. And is your coaching based on co parenting as well? It is. Okay. Fantastic. Fantastic. Well, this might seem a little bit simple, but you know, sometimes we’ll just let me just go straight to what exactly is co parenting?
Latisha Ellis LPC
Co-parenting is when two parents you know, they obviously have children together and they have to really figure out how to navigate cope, how to navigate parenting. So we all come with our own different experiences, our own different histories, our own different perspective of what that is. But when we get into a situation where we have to parent with another person, you know, some of those things are gonna be obsolete or go out the window because you have to really figure out okay, one who am I co parenting with, and if that’s going to be effective for that particular child, and if it’s going to be helped that child be successful, and feel like if they can, if they don’t, they’re not put in the middle. So it’s very tricky to do it does sound sample but it’s very tricky to do because you are real Are we having to think about all the variables? That’s included in that?
Dr. Connie Omari
Very good. I appreciate that perspective. And that’s and yeah, by simple, I meant by the definition alone. I think parenting in general is challenging. So it has to be more challenging. When you’re talking about people who are not, you know, maybe in a committed relationship. Yeah. How did you get into working with co parenting?
Latisha Ellis LPC
Well, I got into it, um, my brother went through a really, hey, this, you know, divorce, and just really like 10 to 12, your battle. Parent, and, you know, there’s some other things and fall like some other even diagnosis involved. But you know, just being on the in and outs of that, it just got me intrigued, because then you see, you know, you’re not as a therapist, you think about, okay, if you’re just seeing an individual, you don’t really always see, oh, well, maybe some of this came from their parents divorce, or, you know, this domino effect of that. So me being on that end of it, and then seeing him go through that, and then how it affects the kids, it just kind of got me into I kind of got, you know, thrown into it. I feel like but I do love the work.
Dr. Connie Omari
Good, good. And that’s like many of us, we find ourselves here because of things we’ve either experienced or speaks directly or experienced vicariously, so I like that. Um, what? What did you What do you wish that black families knew about? coparenting?
Latisha Ellis LPC
Wow. Lots of things. One, I, I wish that they looked at it in a in a tear system. So at the base level, what am I bringing to this situation? How I How am I contributing to conflict, it may not be something that’s like right there between that relationship, that relationship between the two parents, it could be something they bring from their own past, and I get I get the help that I need. And if I didn’t, is it showing up? Is it helping create more conflict. So a lot of the parents that I see, they do need to have their own individual therapists to just weed through all their own stuff, because it’s coming up in their own lives is coming up in the co parenting relationship. And if they don’t, do you know, help, if they don’t get their help for that, at the same time that they’re trying to deal with how to co parent, it’s really, it can really become very problematic. You really can, um, you know, there’s so many other things that I would want parents to look at. But that’s one of the main things because it’s just a reoccurring theme in a lot of the families that I see a lot of parents that I see that bringing so much stuff into the conflict. And there’s a lot of power and control, like no, I need control of something. And the only thing that I control can I feel like that I can control is trying to control the other parent, even though they really in reality, they can’t. You know, what they feel like that, that they can if they you know, make these certain decisions or maneuver certain way. But in the end, they really don’t see how it affects and hurts and damages the child.
Dr. Connie Omari
Wow. That’s, that’s really good stuff. I’m just curious, like, is there like one thing that you see more often than not, that CO parents do and the impact that the negative impact that that has on children?
Latisha Ellis LPC
Yeah, I would say it’s kind of the kind of intertwine is two things. One, the parental alienation and the loyalty bond. So if a parent and it could be up, sometimes they don’t know that they’re creating it. But it could be okay, well, I could get you this. But dad won’t give us the money. So when you plant that seed, or mom will get a give us the money however it is. But when you plant that seed, the child looks at it like oh, that mean that must mean you’re doing more for me than this other parents so they’ll be more attached to you, even though what you’re saying is not even true. Or what you’ve said to the child is In truth, or there’s other variables too, and maybe he got laid off, or maybe the other parent is, you know, having financial issues, but you’re not explaining all these things. So the child, you’re just saying really negative things, so that they can be more on your side than the other, then it creates the opportunity for you to alienate a child of the parent.
Dr. Connie Omari
So it’s horrible, because you just stepped on my toes indirectly. And it’s amazing how this happens. Because I mean, I’m married, I live in the house with my husband. But we I think we subconsciously sometimes do this. And especially if you’re if you’re like myself, and have really children who are very perceptive. So I found myself either myself and my husband, we might say, to our daughter, you know, mommy and daddy are going to talk. And typically she’s, she’s wise enough to know, okay, well, if we’re talking and you can’t be around, chances are, you know, it’s probably not positive, although sometimes it’s just, you know, adult products up and in our world. It’s not, but it just amazes me how much she’ll know that. And then, you know, she’ll say later, Watson, like, well, Mommy, I heard you being rude. You like that, and you weren’t even in the room like you. So how can you? And I can imagine it’s only harder. If you’re dealing with couples who are not couples. How can you have? How what is, is there a strategy that is the most effective that will keep the dialogue going between the two parents, but keep the children out of it?
Latisha Ellis LPC
Well, one, both parents need to know and understand. Children are very receptive. And they are viewed that you can be a complete ninja, and you’re hiding stuff. Like because they just absorb and they’re connected to you. So they know when mommy’s upset. They know when mommy’s sad. They know, they know all these things. Or they know when dad’s you know, in a funk or whatever. They know what they may not know the reason, but they know. So if you kind of leave with that, then it’ll help you better navigate like how to, you know, how to strategize and how to figure out ways to kind of at least be a buffer between them absorbing all this stuff. So what I would I tell that to parents all the time, like, you think you hid in the closet and had a knockout drag down fight with their CO parent, will your child built that? Up the room? Like they just did? That’s just what happened? Yeah. So, um, one, obviously, get some therapy, because you can’t carry all that stuff. You know, you can’t, you’re not gonna hide it too. Well, you can’t carry all that stuff, but then to if they have questions, look at their age number one, and, you know, use appropriate language and tell them certain things, but answer their questions. I don’t I don’t like the kids being necessarily in the dark, especially if they’re asking questions. And if you feel like you can’t necessarily navigate the answer, it as long as the CO parent is, you know, sane, and they’re not causing a lot more conflict, talk to that CO parent, and then you guys have that conversation together with the child. Or you can get that that third party and have therapists you know, do it with the therapist, where you have like maybe a quick family session about some of the questions that your your child is having, or the children are having it answered in a safe space.
Dr. Connie Omari
And I liked that. I liked that a lot. Not Mmm hmm. Okay, very good. Very good. Um in the, I would say in the black community in particular, the church is very big. Is has historical roots, I believe is connected to our spirituality. How do you think the church has either from just what you’ve seen in terms of your practice? How has the church supported or Well, we know, God’s design for marriage is is for you know, parenting is includes marriage. So how, how has that kind of impacted some of the people that you’ve worked with who obviously We are co parenting. So they either divorced or weren’t married to be.
Latisha Ellis LPC
Um, the church has been helpful in ways where they they’re offering, you know, services or they’re including therapists from the community to help create programs. But then on the other hand, it sometimes is problematic because you have those teachings from the church, and it’s causing, let’s say, it’s causing the parents stress, anxiety, anger, frustration, because oh, I messed up, and I’m unredeemable. And then now, because of that, I don’t know which way to move. And it’s causing me just a conflict internally. And so it comes out within the conflict between the parents.
Dr. Connie Omari
Oh, wow, that’s insightful. Wow. Okay. Okay. Um, is there an area along co parenting that you see in black families struggle with the most?
Latisha Ellis LPC
Um, I would say the most is with the like, kind of what we talked about before, those loyalty bonds or that that alienation because it’s a power and control tool that they use, and they use it as a weapon. You know, they weaponize it to hurt the other parent. And then a lot of the stereotypes come into play also, where they can use that stereotype as also as a weapon inside the court system.
Dr. Connie Omari
Oh, my goodness. You just nothing to me, then. But yes, yes, that does happen. What advice would you give someone who’s co parenting, or wants to co parent, but the other parent does it.
Latisha Ellis LPC
I would say one, just come to terms with that, you know, you cannot make a person do the right thing. The only thing that you can do is be an influence, just like you would with your children, like be an influence be the thing you want to see. So go into all those situations like that. And but also know, like, that may not be enough. And so you may need that extra support where they’re so therapists or, you know, family members, just to help get through some of the emotions behind that. But um, you know, that’s what I would tell
Dr. Connie Omari
parents. Okay. Are there any resources that you like to refer your co parenting families to to help them parent more effectively?
Latisha Ellis LPC
Um, yeah, I always like to one start with just the easiest thing like books, you know, I want them to start with books I would want them to start with we’re trying to think of some titles. Now. I have a list of titles on my website.
Dr. Connie Omari
We’ll go through those when we’re done.
Latisha Ellis LPC
But one is co parenting with a toxic ex, because I’ve just seen a lot of one parent will be okay, you know what, I know I can’t get my way all the time. I don’t want to be resistant. But then the other parent is just still they may be stuck in the emotional, they haven’t gotten to that stage of change yet. You know, they have they are still on that just emotional cycle of let’s say they got divorced. They’re still stuck in the divorce part. They can’t co parent right now because they’re mad that they’re even divorced. So that creates a environment of toxicity. So I want them to maybe start their co parenting with the toxic ex. Find a support group of other parents that have that are dealt with, you know, co parenting with someone that’s toxic or someone that is resistant to just co parenting in general. I think group therapy is just as effective because you are one in touch with a therapist that is facilitating in our group. But also, you’re in touch with other parents that completely get it so you won’t feel alone like it could be ISIS. Ladies to be a co parent because, you know, you may have a bunch of single friends, or you may have a bunch of married friends, so they just don’t have that perspective of maybe being divorced or separated. And now you’re a single parent, that’s co parenting. So I would definitely urge parents to look into getting into a support group.
Dr. Connie Omari
Um, I’m a big fan of the concept that prevention is better than cure. So, you know, most people I don’t think set out to be co parents, I know someday, most of the time, that’s not the case, it kind of happens. And, you know, I’m big fan of a lot, some things are out of control. But a lot of times, you know, we make different decisions, new better, we could have prevented things from happening. One of them being contraception. But is there anything in particular that you just kind of see, every people know that sex creates babies like that, but that does not preventing people from having sex and creating pregnancies that they weren’t necessarily setting out to do? So. Other than contraception? Are there things that you’ve just seen kind of, you know, happening time and time with different people that you’re like, Well, you know, maybe if we thought about these things in advance, maybe we wouldn’t find ourselves in this situation?
Latisha Ellis LPC
Well, one, I would say, you know, let’s say we’re talking about a married couple, they have children, um, you know, if they got married and didn’t have those, like, really foundational conversations, you know, they kind of just jumped the gun, they were, you know, you’re in love and all those things, and, but you don’t have those foundational conversations, I will go back and have those foundation conversations, because a lot of times, you know, there is a just damage done in marriage, because you guys have different perspective and expectations. And if we don’t, if each party, don’t, they, if they don’t know what that is, you’re going to have a lot of conflict. So go back and have those foundational conversations about marriage and expectations, and even about parenting a lot of times, to, even after, say, after they get divorce a lot of times is because one parent undermined the other in different ways, not even just with parenting, you know, just in different areas of their relationship. And that’s because they didn’t know what the other person’s expectations were. So I would just go back, like I said, have those foundational conversations, maybe even, you know, go back, go to a therapist, you know, therapist is not about it’s not always about, you know, having a diagnosis or saying, Oh, something is wrong with you. It is about okay, maybe sometimes having hard conversations and making sure that you’re heard or making sure the other person is heard. So we can leave, you know, those conversations with the renewed understanding of each other.
Dr. Connie Omari
Okay. I like that. Thank you. Are there any you said? I think he mentioned Oh, you said you have books on your website. So we’ll go to that at the end. What is is there a common myth about co parenting, that you hear a lot that you just want to set the record straight on?
Latisha Ellis LPC
That it can’t be done? You know, you have a lot of parents like, Oh, if it can’t be done, oh, they’re just unicorns or something? Like no, it can be done. The only reason why it is not as because people are making a choice to not do it.
Dr. Connie Omari
Got it. Got it. Oh, right. All right. Well, thank you, Leticia for this. So we’ve come to a part in the show that I like to call what’s good. And what’s good is basically a segment where I give a hypothetical situation, and you just kind of walk us through the process and tell us what you would recommend for that person. Okay, all right. Meet Stephanie. Stephanie is the mother of four children. Stephanie is 38 years old, and her church, all four of her children are with the same father. However, between her third her between her second and third child, he had a fifth child with another woman, even though they were still in relationships. Today, they are older and more mature. They know that they don’t need to be together, but they know that they have at least five siblings who care a lot out about each other in need to be taken care of. How would you advise Stephanie? To approach co parenting with her partner?
Latisha Ellis LPC
Um, one, I would want to make sure that she’s just in a good frame of mind like they’ve gotten past infidelity, you know, they’re past that part. Because if they’re not, and if they’re not on the same page regarding that, then it’s just gonna be hard to co parent. After that, I will want Stephanie in her heart, her partner or husband, to one have a conversation about how to include this other parent, because there’s a third, you know, there’s a third, she’s the she’s the biological parent to that child. So they all have to have a conversation about what the expectations are, when it comes to rules and routines in the in the two different household. We can’t control everything that goes in each house goes on in each household, but I would want each parent to commit to consistency.
Dr. Connie Omari
Got it? Got it. Awesome. I love that. So this is going to be like a bonus question. Based off of what you just did your feedback, something I see a lot is when couples are in a committed relationship, and one of them steps out typically the man and has a child, but the couple chooses to remain together. And, you know, often times that woman that wife wants nothing to do with that child, at least from what I’ve seen it definitely nothing to do with baby mama. How do you have any advice for how to work around something like that?
Latisha Ellis LPC
Therapy. I mean, that’s what I said she had those, those, that couple, they decide to remain together, you know, we have to get to a point where, okay, I trust you and you trust me. And I’m I’m going to always strive to not ever do this again and put my significant other in this situation. So we have to come through that. That’s a lot of emotional damage that’s been done a lot of trust that has been damaged. So we have to make sure that okay, we’re building that foundation back up again. Because if that’s not intact, she’s not going to be able to care for this other child, or even give that other parent the time of day, you know, so we have to make sure that we, you know, our foundation has to now has a crack in it. We have to repair it. Got it?
Dr. Connie Omari
Well, I love this. So you said you had some amazing resources on your website. So do you care to share your website with our audience in case they need to find you?
Latisha Ellis LPC
Yes, so my website is empower transitions.com. If you go on there, I have some book recommendations for all kinds of things, you know, especially co parenting.
Dr. Connie Omari
Very good, very good. Is there anywhere else? Our audience can find you on social media?
Latisha Ellis LPC
Yes, you can find me on Facebook. And that is in power transitions. And also Instagram.
Dr. Connie Omari
Awesome. So I’ll put a link to all of that in the show notes. I just want to say I’ve learned a lot from you today. I know our viewers have as well. It has certainly been an honor to interview you today. And thank you for coming to the show.
Latisha Ellis LPC
Thank you so much for inviting me.
Dr. Connie Omari
Absolutely. All right, you have a wonderful day. Take care. You too. Bye.
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