Welcome to the black Marriage and Family Therapy matters podcast where we connect black families to black therapist. On Mondays, you will receive direct therapeutic support from a licensed therapist or professional connected to the mental health field. They will provide therapeutic and educational resources to help you have a healthier relationship with your family members. On Wednesdays, you will receive direct tips and resources to help you get through the stuck places that prevent many people from having relationships with their families and significant others that they desire. On Fridays, we want you to visit our blog which can be found at WWW dot black MFT matters.com which holds additional resources and action steps that you can begin implementing immediately to improve your relationships. This is necessary because we love that you are listening. But we want you to take action to while you are there. Please grab our A to Z relationship bootcamp and be provided with the skills you need to immediately communicate better within your relationships. Please note that while the therapists on podcasts are therapists, they do not serve as your therapist unless you have signed a confidential agreement with them confirming that relationship. Thank you in advance for listening. And we hope you are inspired. All right. It’s time for the show. Here is your host, Dr. Connie Omari.
Dr. Connie Omari
Hey, hey, hey, and welcome to the black Marriage and Family Therapy matters podcast where we connect black families to black therapists. Today’s therapist is Dr. Megan
Hi, Dr. Megan.
Dr. Megan Pickens
Hi, how are you?
Dr. Connie Omari
Good. How are you?
Dr. Megan Pickens
Great.
Dr. Connie Omari
Awesome. Well, let’s tell the guests a little bit about you before we get started, is that okay?
Dr. Megan Pickens
That is absolutely okay.
Dr. Connie Omari
All right, a native of Kansas City, Kansas. Dr. Megan studied psychology and sociology at the University of Missouri of Kansas City. After earning her bachelor’s degree, she went on to earn a master’s in family therapy from Friends University in Wichita, Kansas, later study in clinical counseling and Applied Psychology at Dallas Baptist University. Upon entering her LPC license inlet, Texas, she found her practice the volition collected did I say that correctly? Yes, you did a volition collective, which is formerly family first counseling in 2009. She prides herself on telling it like it is with her clients and motivating them to better their lives. As an LPC supervisor. She provides supervision and training for counseling students and interns new to the field. Dr. Megan is an engaging speaker willing to be transparent about her own experiences in life and business. She has taken part as a panelist for professional associations, nonprofits, private events, and local churches as she’s an expert on relationships and mental health, internet radio and television commentator and a live streaming event expert, Dr. Megan presents seminars, workshops and groups on various topics. Topics include personal growth, personality assessment, relationship restoration, divorce prevention, marriage, enrichment, women’s empowerment, boundary setting depression and the church. Her overall goal is stigma reduction related to mental health in the black community, black church and the black community overall. Dr. Megan is part of the call to action mental health, a powerhouse collaboration of black women with intent on addressing mental health issues in the black community. This is very impressive that to begin, thank you for your work.
Dr. Megan Pickens
Thank you.
Dr. Connie Omari
You are welcome. You’re so welcome. So out of what I’ve discussed so far. Is there any like one thing that really just stands out and in the work that you do?
Dr. Megan Pickens
Um, my work with my clients, I specialize in working with high achieving black women. That was the focus of my dissertation. And so I achieving black woman
Dr. Connie Omari
high achieving black woman
Dr. Megan Pickens
was that parameter was set by my study, but that’s what my study was about. Because that’s what most of my clientele is made up of. Absolutely.
Dr. Connie Omari
So well. Is there anything interesting that your study found that might be useful? Bless you, bless you. That might be useful for our audience today, because we do work with a lot of high achieving Black Lives Matter.
Dr. Megan Pickens
Yes, I actually developed a framework to work with high achieving black women that I am fleshing out from my dissertation study with Uh, just to summarize the study, there are many things that people think hygiene black women need, or that they have everything, you know, under control, everything is perfect. But it turns out that the overall need of the women in my study was support. So different kinds of support, there was social support, therapeutic support, spiritual support, and emotional support by how it didn’t depend on how much money they made, because we had women in the study who made over $350,000 a year, and her needs still wasn’t man, they can be supportive to her, you know, ways in her family and her friends, you know, just overall support through people, even though people think they didn’t need it.
Dr. Connie Omari
So it sounds like from society we have built the black woman up to because we’re so self sufficient and so independent and so high achieving that has nothing in return. That’s not an actuality, even if those things are true. It doesn’t mean that the average high achieving black woman doesn’t want to be supportive.
Dr. Megan Pickens
Exactly in that. Yeah, exactly. It was quite interesting.
Dr. Connie Omari
Okay. Okay. I bet. I bet. That’s an awesome study, maybe have you had it published?
Dr. Megan Pickens
Or will you go to some ProQuest right now, and I am planning on presenting it at two conferences, depending on if they selected. But like I said, I’m also fleshing out, you know, what I wrote, so that I can do some other things. really use it.
Dr. Connie Omari
Good, good. Awesome, awesome. Well, today, we’re going to be talking about preventative mental health care. And that’s so important, because as we were saying, before the recording started, you know, a lot of times people wait until they’re in a crisis situation, to getting help. Um, but it sounds like from what you know, you specialize in and what is important to you, there are some, some things that we can do before, we’re in a crisis situation, is that correct?
Dr. Megan Pickens
Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Connie Omari
Well, what are some of those things? What are some things?
Dr. Megan Pickens
You know, I think, especially for couples, when a problem arises, what I want to say when but Well, yes. So like, it’s it for couples, my rule of thumb is kind of like if you are consistently having disagreements over something. So it could be something as little as the discipline of the kids, or how often you’re intimate, or who does what pays what bills like finances. As soon as that continues to be a topic of discussion, that kind of thing goes out, or that you avoid talking about, I think that’s when you step in to get help from a mental health professional. Because a lot of times with the couples that I see, the issues have, that they’re dealing with, currently, are ongoing. They started, you know, years ago, not even just like months, but years ago, like even as long as 20 years ago. And so, you know, by the time they come to us, they’re saying, Oh, this is last ditch effort. If this doesn’t work, we’re you know, the forest thing. All those kinds of words come up, versus them, you know, coming before it gets to become such a problem and their relationships. For individuals, the same thing, I think, especially if they are somebody who was isolated or does not have, like a big support network, then I think preventative mental care, healthcare is important as well. And overall, people just as individuals and couples, I think a good rule of thumb is probably quarterly check ins. And I know some people do yearly check ins, but a lot can happen in a year. So yes, I think quarterly is a is a good, Objective.
Dr. Connie Omari
Example. Thank you for that information, because I will randomly just ask, you know, my husband, Hey, you okay, you know, like, are you happy? You know, just right. But I’m just curious, what, what are the check in look like? Like, is that sufficient? Or do I need to be asking more involved questioning?
Dr. Megan Pickens
Now, that’s a sufficient question. Because that will point out if you move forward. And so like, let’s say in January, you know, how everybody makes New Year’s resolutions or goals or whatever they want to call them. So let’s say that every January, you know, you have set up an appointment with a mental health professional, and you kind of just checked off, checking in with them, tell them how the previous time period went, because I’m recommending quarterly so we’ll say quarterly bill. So you’re just starting. And so you talk about how 2020 went for you. That’s enough right there. I mean, 2020 was a pretty tumultuous year. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So you start off with that. And you know, there’s nothing severe that you may need medication for or ongoing therapy, you’re not in crisis mode or anything like that, you’re just kind of checking in making sure you’re okay discussing a couple of things that maybe happened in your job in your life, blah, blah, blah. And that’s the end of your checking session. And so at the end of this session, you’re saying to your mental health professional, okay, so I would like to reschedule for April, you know, I’m doing okay, now, I don’t have anything extreme going on. So I’ll come back in April. And then you kind of do the same thing in April. But that could also go differently, where you come in in January, and you start naming a couple of things. And then you realize, I think I’ve been depressed, no, 2020 was hard on me. I had to change jobs, you know, the kids were home, my husband and I saw each other all the time. So we’re stressed out, or my wife and I saw each other all the time. So stressed out, we haven’t had time for us, because the world has changed, right? You know, your homeschooling, doing all of those kind of having all those kinds of challenges. And so you find out, man, it’s a little bit more involved than you thought it was. So that’s when you go to maybe a regular schedule of, you know, like, most of the clients if they’re not in crisis crisis, but they have things that they’re dealing with, then I’ll go either a biweekly or tribal session. No, you might just do that for that quarter, though. So at the end of quarter one, let’s say, when it’s time for your, your technical April check in, you’re okay. And so then you go to the check in schedule, or you’re not quite okay, you realize you want more, you know, you want to keep regular services, and you keep it your every two weeks or three weeks. So that’s how it will look to me.
Dr. Connie Omari
I like that, I like that. And I thought what you were saying was, you should check in for the marriage. But from your explanation, it sounds like you should just check it in general, like as
Dr. Megan Pickens
I’ve just, I’ve just for marriages, but for like yourself, I mean, you can check me out for parenting people have challenges at work. I mean, and like I said, last year was extremely challenging the way that the world operated for many of us changed. And so you know, there are some therapists that were already online only, you know, but until, you know, and then the pandemic, so that was no adjustment for the majority of us, self included. I was used to being in my office and seeing clients in my office and maybe seeing an online client here and there. So the transition was not easy for me.
Dr. Connie Omari
Right, right, awesome. Well, thank you for that. Um, so this probably goes into your dissertation. It definitely goes back through our history. But what types of I don’t want to ask this? What types of cultural things do you think we do that makes us overlook prevention strategies?
Dr. Megan Pickens
Well, of course, you know what I talked about the D stigmatizing mental health care. A lot of what we do as a culture is through the church, and there’s nothing wrong with it. I do absolutely believe in God. I absolutely believe that prayer works. But I also absolutely believe that counseling and all of that can be synonymous.
Dr. Connie Omari
And I think that is dead. Faith without works is dead.
Dr. Megan Pickens
And so I just feel like the kind of myth of the bills have to be separate, kind of needs to be removed. And because of that, I have churches and pastors that I’ve partnered with to educate them about mental health because the good thing is when the good and bad because some of the reasons that they’re being more aware, it’s because their people are struggling, but the good thing is okay. The good thing is that because some of the churches and ministers are more aware of the needs of their congregation as it relates to mental health. I’ve had quite a few collaborations with local churches on educating about mental health and kind of my, my pastor and I specifically have talked to groups about to the to the congregation about how Um, you know, some things are spiritual issues, and some things are mental health issues. And that, you know, we each have expertise in those areas. And that’s how you utilize us, you know, figure out how to utilize us.
Dr. Connie Omari
So I like that, because I think what happens, what I see a lot of is us completely separating the two. Yes, you know, there’s, there’s a place for that. But there’s a tough reality that in the black community, there’s still a huge reliance on the church, and we can’t completely ostracize that value. Because when we do that, then we’re missing out on a lot of people. So I can imagine it will be great when Pastor Johnson just Yeah, Pastor talks it but says, you know, well, you know, this is a little bit out of my expertise. What about referring you to Dr. Megan? Right? That person now sees you as an authority, because their pastor who they value and respect has made?
Dr. Megan Pickens
Exactly, yeah, yeah. And that’s how it works. And then also, being active in the community is also a plus. Because when you’re active in the community, and people tend to see you at local events, and then they, you know, they kind of find that we are, because I think I want to say that the first pastor I worked with, saw me, you know, doing something free at a health fair or something like that. And so that’s how that evolves. And so even some of the churches, my previous church that I went to, which was like, not into mental health, they’re now having like, regular health fairs that I do every year. And then you know, just different things like that. So it was really expanded. And so people were understanding the importance of it. And and I tell people, I’m not trying to replace God or prayer in any absolutely, I am an instrument of God, He created me to do this. And so that’s why I’m good at what I do. Because it’s, it’s my spiritual gift is what he made me to do.
Dr. Connie Omari
So they absolutely, the Bible says your gifts will make room for you. So good job, the job. And not just an hour, what about because we’ve been through such a tough history. And we’re resilient. And like you said, you work with high achieving black women. So I mean, they’ve gone through some stuff. So what part of that might make people think you have to deal with stuff like longer than they should. And I say this, because in my course, I was working with women, I work with women who are to help them learn to break the patterns of toxic relationships. And we were talking about domestic violence. And I just remember working with someone who was completely shocked by the fact that I was saying that you don’t have to have, you know, real toxic like that. But that’s not necessary. It never occurred to her that if a man hits you, that that’s not a sign. So, my question, so my question is, and I know, you see that you’ve seen that before as well. So my shift is, how do we get people to understand that I have from what I make sense of it is, you know, we go through so much, we almost think that it’s normal. And, you know, so if we can get out of it great. But what about the prevention means like, how? What do you think about, you know, how can we, I don’t know, teach men and women that domestic violence is not okay, it’s easier to not have a violent relationship than it is to have a rocky relationship, and figure out how to unlearn those patterns of behaviors?
Dr. Megan Pickens
Well, I believe a lot of that starts with just our, our views on relationships, and how we even talk about relationships. Because if you I know, you’ve seen couples who have may have been together for however long, but they don’t really know anything about each other. And they didn’t discuss anything before the marriage. So they didn’t talk about, you know, even without a formal premarital counseling, which I recommend, but they don’t talk about stuff and don’t know things about each other. And so, they may not know how conflict is handled in their family of origin. And so for the batterer conflict is, you know, physical or whatever. And for the non veteran, they’ve never experienced it, and so they don’t necessarily even know how to handle it, or what it is, and then a lot of people leave out, which was also the focus of my study is emotional abuse, and how that that starts and often leads to physical abuse. I think it’s pretty rare. I don’t have statistics on it, but I think it’s pretty rare for somebody to just wake up and get you started before they’re testing. You know, seeing how they can talk to you and what they can get away with and things like that. So they The cycle of almost a grooming period for that. And so just recognizing that that’s even inappropriate. So I, you know, somebody calls you a b word, because they’re upset because you didn’t cook the chicken the way they wanted to. And you just take that and say, you know, that’s just how he is, he’s just having a bad day, right? They make an excuse for it, then you’ve already kind of let a line being be crossed. And so I’m always saying to people, you know, like I said, I’m talking about boundary setting. And so boundary setting for some people, you know, it hasn’t gone on for a long while. So they may have this big pile of things that they need to have a boundary setting on, and they don’t even know where to start. And so I always say, start with one thing. So what is that one thing? The first thing you’ve got to tackle? So it’s, I don’t know, cursing you out for cooking the food? The way they don’t want it? Then it’s like, you know, okay, so that happens in you saying, No, I, you know, I’m working hard to cook for you. And I just don’t appreciate being spoken to that way. And so from now on, if that happens, I won’t because, or you know, something to that effect. So whatever that boundary is. And of course, that’s with the knowledge that one has to be careful, especially depending upon the level of battery in the relationship because it could escalate things, which in that case, you know, you set up a safety planning you find somewhere else to be because I think if it’s physical, being in the same environment, it’s not helpful anyway, or safe. And so you know, anything, depending upon the level of violence is within the better, could send them over the top.
Dr. Connie Omari
So that’s correct. That’s great. You mentioned something that I thought was very important. And I wanted to ask the opposite. And that is, you know, people don’t talk like so sometimes they don’t know, what about I think this is equally if not more, so challenging. What about when they do know? Because I’ve seen people like, for instance, marry a man. And forgive me, but maybe this man’s not very involved in these kids lives. They know that the man is not involved in their children’s lives, and then they turn around and have a baby with this man. Those kids lives. And so it’s kinda like, it always amazes me that people are shocked. So how can we be more in tune with our I call it being in tune with your senses? I don’t know what you say. But, you know, my Angelou said it best when a person teaches you who they are, believe them. So how do we kind of even if we don’t have a formal conversation about something, how do we know? Like, how can we be more aware? How can we prevent some bad things from happening if we pay more attention? Before things happen?
Dr. Megan Pickens
I can certainly say to be mindful of the compromises that you accept at the beginning of the relationship. I think that’s where that starts. So in the example that you used if somebody were to want to date and say, Oh, but I don’t see my child, because the mother I’ll use, like a man as example, because I’m a woman. The mother does not let me see my child, because you know, she’s a bee, or we don’t get along or whatever laundry list of things. So my first question is going to be well, you know, what about your parental rights that you saw parental rights, blah, blah, blah, you know, oh, no, I’m not doing that. Or oh, yes, I have. So Oh, yes, I have is a different path. Oh, yes, I have, and I’m actively working on it. issue. We’re actively working on it. And so I can deal with it. But oh, no, I haven’t because of whatever laundry list of things. We’re not going to move forward. Because that’s not a compromise that I can accept long term. So, you know, year one is kind of like, Okay, have you worked on the, you know, seeing your child, have you worked on seeing your child here three years, still hasn’t happened. And definitely by then you will be aware that there’s really no effort being made? Absolutely. Um, so it just that type of thing just builds and builds. So, you know, when we talked earlier about people not talking then it’s like, okay, year 20, you have never had a relationship with this child. And now they’re popping up, you know, whatever. And, you know, this is a problem in our relationship, or it’s a problem, but how I can respect you in our relationship, because you’ve never done what you were supposed to do. So it just start off small things like that, which I don’t even consider. They’re super small, but those things like that, like, just build up and cause problems in the relationship. And so I think that it starts at the, what you accept at the beginning. And I come up with that from my client experience and my personal experience and some of the things that I allow for I wasn’t very, and you know, that ultimately really ended my marriage. And when you’re talking to people, you find out that most of the things that do were already happening either before or at the beginning of the relationship.
Dr. Megan Pickens
Thank you for that transparency. I as well, um, you know, I think the human part of us is, is that we this, this happens, right, even to the most educated and knowledgeable about this, what do you what would you say, my theory on a lot of this, because this is happening a lot, especially amongst our community and our people in this, this is a main reason why I created this podcast, this platform, what would you say about how our history has desensitized us to stuff, because if you think about it, you know, slavery was all about, you know, think of the black family, we couldn’t legally marry, you know, breeding, we, they had sex farms, we’d have to make babies so that they could have slaves, they could rape us, our husbands and fathers couldn’t do anything, you could find yourself having sex with your own sibling to make a baby, you know, for the sake of the master. So there are a lot of, you know, situations in our black community, in our history have kind of just, I think we’ve blurred the boundaries in terms of relationships, because of it made us less, you know, family oriented. And it’s a couple of 100 years later, but you know, when those I mean, you’re really talking about like, our great, great, maybe great grandparents? We’re not, that’s not? Um, how do we, I guess what I’m trying to say is how, coming from that history, and being where we are today, how do you think that experience has made us kind of like, turn the blind eye to certain things? I mean, like for the slaves, whose wife was getting raped by the master, like, that was survival, like, he could not confront that master, right? Or he died? And then there’ll be nobody. So how, I mean, is that kind of what we’re doing today, when we’re like, ignoring or overlooking?
Dr. Megan Pickens
Or maybe that’s an extreme comparison, but no, I got what you’re saying. I definitely believe that it spills over and it does affect us. I mean, of course, we know systemic racism affects us ongoing. But also, I think that we have to get to the point as a people where we don’t believe the hype. And when I say that, I mean that we don’t believe what they tell us about us believe what we know about us and determine what is what is us.
Dr. Connie Omari
You just spoke to my soul right there, because people constant seriously, people will constantly try to define you, you know, see that in the news in the media all the time, you know, education system, and it’s like, no, we don’t have to tolerate, you know, these thought processes.
Dr. Megan Pickens
And we have proven experiences, where we survived quite well, on our own. Hello. We’re talking about in terms of slavery. So you know, just think about it. Okay, I’m going to give you the scraps, the worst part of the foods, I’m going to give you what I think you can’t survive a club. And then there you go there. So, so much, so that now you’re walking down from the plantation, trying to get what I know the scraps you gave me. So we are in. We are resilient. My we are smart. You think about Oklahoma, and Black Wall Street, Black Wall Street was thriving, okay. You tell us, we can only be here. And that, you know, we can’t use any of your resources. And so what do we do we build an empire. And the only thing that happens to that empire is that you toward him, because ultimately, so but those are instances of where we know that we’re resilient, we’re strong, and we can build, but that does not mean that we should have to be strong all the time. And so that’s where we come in, you know, you have a support network. You have an objective here, because we all have support Walmart say we are all but most people have some kind of support network within their families or their friendships. And so with all that being said, however, it’s your family, your friends, friendships and so they love you. And some might tell you, you know, the truth, but then some may not you know, they might not Just because they love you, and they don’t want to cause problems in the relationship, or whatever it is. So that’s where that objective here that we have comes in.
Dr. Connie Omari
Can you give, like maybe just one example of what that looks like, because I think people, and I think this is people in general, not just our community, but when a person’s in it, like, we have a death in my family right now, it’s, it’s close enough, and it bothers me, but it’s not real, you know, sensitive, so I can work through it, but I just, I remember their poor children, you know, like that, it’s a lot closer on their heart. And I just remember, you know, my family was going to be supportive. And when the one of the children’s began crying, you know, a family member? Gosh, I hope you don’t. But they kind of like kind of walked away, kind of, you know what I mean? Because I would assume it made my family member feel uncomfortable to write, it’s the crying. But as you can imagine, losing a parent is very normal, and expected that you would cry so Exactly, exactly. So I think we get so I’m sure my my family member intended to be supportive. Like that. That was the goal. That’s why they showed up but you know, they essentially, were not very supportive. So how do you know what how can we support people meaning, you know, the death rate, loss of a job, loneliness, whatever person’s going through what’s like one quick skill you might can share that will help us know how to give that support?
Dr. Megan Pickens
You mean, as a layperson?
Dr. Connie Omari
Person? Yeah, just something structured?
Dr. Megan Pickens
I would definitely say that the first step, the very first step would be, do you want me to listen to listen? Or do you want me to listen for solution? Because I think that’s where couples definitely can go south, you know, is like, you know, I want to talk to you about ABCD. And then the other person is consistently trying to solve the problem. And the person who’s talking doesn’t feel hurt. So I think that’s the very basic beginning. And so then the second would be to do either one of those things. And so I think, as a layperson, non professional, that if you’re talking to your friend, and they start telling you something like, Oh, I haven’t gotten out of bed this whole week, you know, I called into work, because I just didn’t feel like it, I think the average person knows that that might not be no normal functioning. And so they may say, to their friend, or loved one may need to talk to somebody else, you know, besides me, and for some of us that it could, you know, the next step may be talking to the pastor, or whatever. And so then, but the pastor says, hey, you know, this is not necessarily a spiritual issue, and you’re not functioning, you’re not, you know, doing basic needs. So maybe you need to talk to a mental health professional. So even if this goes from family member to professional or family member to pastor to professional, I think that, you know, the average person. And I think that’s where our job comes in, as far as doing community events, and doing any kind of education, things like your podcast is that we’re giving that basic education so people know what that looks like. Or at least know to follow their instincts on okay, I’m not sure that you know, this person is okay. So let me refer them to a professional. All right.
Dr. Connie Omari
Um, what are three? Or even one? Do you have any resources in mind, however many you want to offer? That could help black communities, maybe learn prevention skills? Or go, you know, if they find yourself seeing before, at the beginning of the stage? What resource would you encourage the black community to kind of tap into?
Dr. Megan Pickens
Well, of course, you know, local professionals that you may trust or speaking to your friends about, you know, professionals that they trust so that you can get like basic information. I think, for us as mental health professionals, that means we provide that to the community, you know, we posted on our websites, there’s blogs, just different things, you know, like you could, there could be a blog on how to recognize this depression, and you need to go see a professional or if it’s just like a rough patch kind of thing. So, you know, I think that would be I think, the avenue in which to educate people like in general, and of course, you know, your therapy is always good. So, you know, even if the if even if the healing starts with I’m gonna get this book about what it’d be abuse is because sometimes you reading things in black and white on a page, it makes it a lot easier to recognize. And I say that specifically with emotional abuse. Because if you’ve been with an emotional abuser, then they’re constantly picking at you or their advice, or might call all the different things. But you know, like, when I’m saying that bias, I’m kinda like, oh, no, we’re orange awfulness orange, you know, you look better in, say, purple or whatever. So those kinds of backhanded compliments, which in itself is not a problem. But if you get in there all day, every day, and that is affecting your self esteem, or the way you look at yourself, the way you look at your partner and your relationship over a long term, then it’s kind of like, Hmm, maybe on the, you know, some kind of hill or something like, I don’t think this is normal. And so like you talked about earlier, some of the dysfunction and inappropriate relationships, physical abuse, some of that stuff is become so normal, you know, and I’ve even had clients that will say, Well, you know, it only happens when he, you know, when, when it’s the anniversary of his mom’s death, or the anniversary of her child’s death or whatever, like, and so it’s, you know, it’s like once or twice a year, so pay and stuff, because it’s so spread out, it seems to be harder to identify for people when they still they don’t think it’s the problem.
Dr. Connie Omari
Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I appreciate that. I appreciate that. Can you give us one myth that the black community might have about your ability to prevent the mental health crisis?
Dr. Megan Pickens
I think I’ll go back to what we said earlier, the belief that religion and counseling can’t take place at the same time. I love it. I think that is one of the things that has crippled us throughout time, you know, and the really cool thing is, if people don’t know, probably you, and I know is that it works really well together.
Dr. Connie Omari
Great, great. It’s my favorite. Yeah. Yeah, you’re absolutely right. Okay, well, you’ve done us a lot to think about today. We’re going to transition to a part of the show that we call what’s good space where I give a hypothetical situation and you kind of give us advice to help us work our way through it. Is that okay? Joyce, I’d like you to meet, Meghan Meet Dr. Megan, I’d like you to Dr. Megan, I’d like you to meet Joyce. Joyce is a 47 year old African American mother of two. She has been married three times and she is engaged to marry her fourth husband, husband, number one was unfaithful to her husband, number two, had a gambling addiction. And husband number three, used to beat her. She is ready for love, and wants to have a strong marriage. But she is afraid of this happening again. How her exact statement was, hopefully this husband will be good to me. How can you advise her to tap into her own sense of self and be aware of things that she could prevent? In proceeding with this marriage?
She’s got a lot going on that she does.
Dr. Megan Pickens
The first thing I want to know from Joyce is Did she have any kind of counseling or hearing healing from the previous relationships? Like how what is the distance between this last marriage where she was battered to this new marriage? You know, like working on herself? So that would be my first question. My second question would be, how long has she knows this person? And I would definitely thoroughly recommend premarital counseling. I would get equip her with the information of vital signs of battery or possible betters. So you know, and that starts with that emotional abuse, you know, how does he talk to you? All of those kinds of things? Is he open to premarital counseling? You know, so that’s where I would start with Joyce, I would hopefully be able to dissuade her from jumping right into another relationship until some of those steps are taken. Because it seems like from what you said that she Like progressively made worse choices, you know. And so I would definitely want to know her relationship history and the distance between those relationships and all that, but specifically that last one where she was actually better, because you know, the tendency, and we know that is that, you know, people are drawn to the same kind of people and they just pick a different partner, but they may not know it. And so sometimes with those signs ahead of time do you might know it and so that might be that might be the like I said, the be equipping her with knowing about emotional abuse and knowing that that can very likely lead to physical.
Dr. Connie Omari
Love it, love it, love it. Well, you have been such a source of inspiration for us today. We are so grateful to have you here. Talk to me, Can Can you tell us our audience? Well, first of all, if you tell us the title, I will make sure that I attach that in the show notes of your dissertation. What is the title of your dissertation?
Dr. Megan Pickens
It is super long. Is the impact of the strategic family therapy intervention of seating ideas? Okay, on the relationships of high achieving black women in emotionally abusive relationships.
Dr. Connie Omari
Wow, that is long, but interesting. nonetheless. Interesting
Dr. Megan Pickens
is my chair, because she was like, You need all of them in there. All of it. Okay. Okay.
Dr. Connie Omari
Awesome. Well, we’ll attach that in the show notes. Or you can send it to me that might make it a little bit easier for me to find. And where can you so are you still doing online counseling?
Dr. Megan Pickens
I am I am actually moving towards doing some face to face. July. To be very selective because in Texas, you will think that COVID is cured, right? Yeah, yeah.
Dr. Connie Omari
Yeah. So though your intent so you’re in Texas, so but so as of now, anybody in the state of Texas, who is listening to this podcast can assess you via online?
Dr. Megan Pickens
Yes. Awesome.
Dr. Connie Omari
Awesome. Thank you very much. Is there any where else comm listeners can follow you? Instagram, Facebook.
Dr. Megan Pickens
So our website is the VO coco.com. So, th e v is in Victor O. Co ceo.com. That’s our website. And it is also our social media handle on all platforms. So it’s at the Volk Coco. And so that’s where they can find us and find you know, like, updates about the practice and what’s going on. Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter, which I’ve just opened the Twitter’s
Dr. Connie Omari
I’m not a Twitter or either or tweeter, but I really take it seriously with Trump. But that’s a whole nother episode.
Dr. Megan Pickens
Yes, absolutely is absolutely.
Dr. Connie Omari
Day but this episode was great. We are so honored that you stopped by. Thank you so much. And I wish you nothing but success.
Dr. Megan Pickens
Thank you.
Dr. Connie Omari
All right. Take care. You too. All right, bye.
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