Dr. Connie Omari
Hey, hey, hey, and welcome to the black Marriage and Family Therapy matters podcast where we connect black families to black therapists. Today’s guest is Dr. Ebony white. Hi, Dr. Ebony.
Dr. Ebony White
Hi, Dr. Connie. How are you?
Dr. Connie Omari
I’m good. How are you?
Dr. Ebony White
I am well.
Dr. Connie Omari
Well, let’s take a moment to introduce you to our audience today. Is that okay? Yes, please. All right. Dr. Ebony is a licensed professional counselor in New Jersey and professor at Drexel University. She is also the executive director of the Center for mastering and refining children’s unique skills, also known as Marcus, which is a nonprofit organization where she is expanding focus on developing developmental pathways for at promise adolescents in Trenton, New Jersey through counseling, mentoring and tutoring. Why don’t you tell me a little bit more about that? Because I don’t want to I don’t want to butcher the title is at promise like the name of the company?
Dr. Ebony White
No. So oftentimes, when we talk about kids of color, particularly black kids, we use the term at risk. Oh, um, so instead of using that risk I use and promise
Dr. Connie Omari
I love that. Awesome.
Dr. Connie Omari
Awesome because I was tempted to say at risk, but I wanted to see clarifications on it. That’s amazing. Awesome. All right. So she also focuses primarily on issues that impact the relationships and functioning of African Americans, primarily women and teens. She also provides multicultural and mental health training for law enforcement, religious leaders, educators and community members. Dr. Ebony’s research interests broadly focuses on advocacy and social justice within the African American community. Wow. Thank you, Dr. Ebony for your work.
Dr. Ebony White
Thank you. Thank you. I mean, essentially everything black is what I do.
Dr. Connie Omari
Yes, that is good. That is awesome. Well, why don’t you tell me a little bit more about why you started doing this type of
Dr. Ebony White
work. You know, it’s interesting. I was one of those people actually, let me back up a little bit. My mom is a certified social worker. And so she lives that identity. And I remember being a kid, and I didn’t realize how revolutionary This was at the time. But in the late 80s, early 90s, my mom used to volunteer and HIV AIDS clinic. And you know, that was during the time when they really didn’t know how it was contracted. I had, you know, all of those things, but she was there doing the work. She was standing on the corner and pass out clean syringes and condoms and grown up in a church. You know, she got some backlash. Uh huh. Doing those things. But watching my mother have such a heart for the community, I definitely think he kind of just descended or I inherited, that. I heard that from her. But more importantly, growing up and the community in which I work. I have first hand knowledge and experience of what it’s like to live below the poverty line, what it’s like to see yellow tape when you’re walking to and from school, what it’s like to be in classes that are too full and not have enough resources. And so it was just really important for me to do that type of work.
Dr. Connie Omari
That’s amazing. That’s amazing. What can I assume that might be why you refer to to black children as at promises as opposed to at risk?
Dr. Ebony White
Absolutely.
Dr. Connie Omari
Is that like you’re typing? are other people doing this?
Dr. Ebony White
No other people are doing it to the first time I heard and I’ve done some training that you went in my bar, you said I do multicultural trainings for educators as well. And I was connected to this organization with my good friend, Dr. Johnny cruise, Craig with the Delta teacher efficacy campaign. And several years ago, I want to say probably 2014 to the year probably 2014. I heard her using the term at promise. And I said, You know what? I’m going to adopt that. And she said, yeah, absolutely. You know, we’re tired of people looking at our babies through this pathological lens.
Dr. Ebony White
So that makes so much sense. Yeah. Yeah. So wow, thank you for
Dr. Connie Omari
that. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Well, that’s amazing. Um, what’s one thing? So today, we’re going to talk a little bit about coping skills. And I think that’s great. And before we go into it, just kind of what is a coping skill?
Dr. Ebony White
Yeah, and you know, it’s really, it is exactly what it sounds like. It’s a strategy, something you have in your personal toolbox that helps you to manage the day to day. So whether there is incidents or events that happen, that could be anything as small as somebody irritating you, at work to dealing with a loss, a heavy loss and grief. But just so something that you use that you’re able to function at your best level,
Dr. Connie Omari
very good. I like that. I like that. And I think it’s important because sometimes, you know, especially like in our community, we see certain behaviors and certain things that are modeled after. So if your dad was like an explosive person, you tend to think that that’s just kind of how it is. So how like, like,
Dr. Ebony White
how, you know,
Dr. Connie Omari
I guess what I’m hearing you say is that coping skills is like a way that you can learn how to behave and not necessarily behave based on maybe some things that you witnessed, is that
Dr. Ebony White
correct? You know, it’s interesting, I don’t know, to some extent, yes. But it’s important that there are things such as healthy coping skills and unhealthy coping skills.
Dr. Connie Omari
That’s a good one. Mostly as a coping skill,
Dr. Ebony White
Way of expressing… right? And so we’ve seen, you know, people turn to substances as an unhealthy coping skill. And so they recognize that they’re dealing with something they need to be able to manage, but they may not choose the healthiest path to manage it. And so there’s some, you know, yes, we do learn from our environment, we learn from the people around us, sometimes we learn what to do, we learn what not to do. But it’s important that the coping skills that we employ, or I encourage folks to employ coping skills that don’t have those negative consequences attached to them. Very good,
Dr. Connie Omari
very good. Um, so what’s one thing you wish black families knew about healthy coping skills?
Dr. Ebony White
That is not elusive to them. And I’m trying to find a different term, you know, for a long time, as you know, in our community, mental health, or even counseling, or having a therapist was seen more of as an elitist thing, or even as a white thing, right. And so when we’re talking about these topics, it’s important to know that no, we we have access to be able to being able to cope just like anybody, just like anybody else, right. And so I wish that black families knew that they are already doing some things that they could name that’s healthy coping, that even though it’s not maybe validated by white folks, or validated in the mainstream, it’s ways that we’ve learned how to cope just within our communities. And that I also wish that they realized that resilience is not necessarily always a good thing. Oh, tell me more. In regards to the resilience piece, yes, yes. Right. And so resilience, you know, in some in many respects like it, it’s good because it means that we survive, and that we go in and that we go through, but the problem was taken on a resilience identity is that you know, particularly black women, is that then we don’t get a chance to be weak and to be vulnerable and to meet her Help. And so if we’re seen as resilient than were overlooked for support, we’re not getting the, you know, our needs met. And so having this whole, you know, I’m strong, I can get through it. If my mom did it, I can do it. Right, that whole push, it really interferes with us being able to get our needs met.
Dr. Connie Omari
Oh, well, I love that that strong black woman gift in a curse at the same time, at the same time? What type of healthy coping skills can we get to strong black women?
Dr. Ebony White
I don’t mean to think we have to do the job we already have on right. And so something that hasn’t been highlighted enough in our communities is what black people black black women, black people have done all the time. You know, it’s a it’s a misconception that we don’t talk and communicate that our feelings because if we go to you know, definitely pre pandemic, but now everything is opening up. But if you go to any salon and barbershop in the black community, there’s a lot of vulnerability. There’s a lot of openness and a lot of communication happening, right. And that’s coping skills, right? People go to church, they go to church, they hear a sermon, and all that kind of stuff. But people also go to the church stay connected, and they form bonds, and friendships, right? They engage in prayer, and not just church. No, it could be mosque, or, you know, whatever people’s religious like is this connection. And so faith is a huge coping skill, right? Being able to believe that something greater than me has my back, and I can if I can’t go anywhere else, I can go there. And so that’s a great coping skill. And so being able to live within your community and say, You know what, I feel better when I am around my auntie, you know, I feel better. When I’m, you know, at the salon, I feel better when I’m at church. And so if if those things help you to feel better, those are coping skills. My favorite place to be when I was a child is sitting between one of my grandma’s legs and she agrees and scratch.
Dr. Ebony White
Yes.
Dr. Ebony White
You know that the leftover grease on her hands?
Dr. Connie Omari
Every day I remember that. Yes, yes. Nice night. It
Dr. Ebony White
was relaxing, relaxing, and they brought comfort, right. And whatever stress I had throughout the day as a child or whatever, I was at peace in that space.
Dr. Connie Omari
I love that. I love that. I love that so much. Well, I feel like just for us to thoroughly talk about the healthy coping skills, we need to talk about the unhealthy ones because a lot of times people are doing things and they don’t know that it’s not okay, because it’s all that they see. So what do you want black families to know about unhealthy coping skills?
Dr. Ebony White
Yeah, so isolation is something that is, fans can certainly be well, that is certainly unhealthy coping skill, particularly because specifically, black people thrive. It’s okay. Black people, we thrive in community.
Dr. Connie Omari
Mm right.
Dr. Ebony White
We are our best when we are supportive and we are connected. And when we isolate what we’re doing is we are separating the connection we are we are disconnecting. Right. And I do a lot of addictions work as well. And there are a lot of people in addictions field who say that the opposite of addiction isn’t like healthy or recovery, the opposite of addiction is connection. Right? And so if we are isolating what we’re doing is we’re stopping ourselves from being able to benefit from the connections that we have. Another thing about isolation is you know, things that I see or folks say when I was coming up is you know, I don’t mind is the devil’s playground. Right? When you’re isolated you are stuck in your own head and your own thoughts. You have nobody to help you challenge those or to give you a counter narrative than the one that you’re creating in your own mind and that can be really unhealthy so isolating is an unhealthy coping skill I already talked about relying on substances now I’m you know if I can keep it real and transparent on this podcast, I like a glass of wine just like anybody should
Dr. Connie Omari
have had you green glass because
Unknown Speaker
why? But if you feel like you’re turning to it to get through something, right, like I can’t get through this day without this substance, then that is an unhealthy coping skill right? Some people use sex is an unhealthy coping skill sets has its place in relationship right but if you’re using it to numb if you’re using it to distract right then that is an unhealthy coping skill and then also I’m sorry,
Dr. Ebony White
sorry, no,
Dr. Connie Omari
I just because this was sensitive for me because people will use it to stay in relationships that they shouldn’t be it that’s unhealthy as well. Oh,
Dr. Ebony White
always and unhealthy is toxic. is damaging to identity self esteem, self worth. And yeah, you know, if I could you know, to step into my back to shoes for a second, probably blocking Your blessing? That part? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. But also, you know, I do want to honor that sex is the way to connect. And so sometimes people aren’t even using it maliciously. But when they realize that there’s no connection in the relationship in other ways, they like at least we have this, we could connect here, but it’s not a true a genuine sense of connection. Because then if you don’t have the other places where you’re connected, and it’s just sex,
Dr. Ebony White
right, yeah, right. Absolutely. Absolutely. Um, what do you think?
Dr. Connie Omari
Where do you think black families struggle the most as it relates to expressing themselves using have healthy coping skills? What is what is their number one like? Difficulty?
Dr. Ebony White
You know,
Dr. Ebony White
I am very of the mind that we have to look at the whole system in the context, right? I think black families biggest difficulty is that we’ve had to figure out how to survive and work towards thriving in a system that was designed to kill us.
Dr. Connie Omari
Yes, right. It wasn’t even habits in
Dr. Ebony White
mind didn’t even well, there has a mind in a very specific capacity, yes, for what we could do for them. Exactly. Not as fully whole human beings. And so when you put when you first when you steal people and bring them here, and never allow them space, to be themselves and have their own language, have their own connections, and you’re saying, Listen, we put you you have to survive in our system, even though the whole time we’re trying to kill you, then it creates unhealthy patterns of communication, unhealthy patterns of power, unhealthy patterns, and you know, all of can you give us one example. Yeah, absolutely. You know, my theoretical orientation is reality therapy. And one thing that William Glasser talks about is that he puts the five needs and evenly instead of how Maslow has met him, the needs are different. Right. And so one of the five knee needs and glasses model is power. Support is to know that power is not something negative to one. But the problem is that white people have bastardized power. And so we think we’ve we’ve been shown that power means dominance, that powers means abuse, that power, you know, means all of these things that it doesn’t mean. We don’t we don’t realize that you can have power with a set of power over. Yes. You know what I mean? Yes, yes,
Dr. Connie Omari
I’m so I never had the words to say what you just said. But that power with it’s an over because being being a woman who is married with children, you know, I kind of struggled with me even making that decision. Because I’ve been, you know, conditioned in the same society that makes you seem almost like that you’re weak, because you’re doing that and or, you know, you’re not the strong black woman, you know, whatever. That may be someone who chose not to marry or not to have children will have. And so in Thank you for saying that. Because it just reminds me that you can’t have like power. What do you say power, power, in power, with power with our with? Yes, with that femininity, because there’s something about being able to just push a baby out your body? That requires a lot of strength? Or to talk to a man every day that sometimes you want to choke?
Dr. Ebony White
restraint?
Dr. Ebony White
Yes, yes.
Dr. Ebony White
Absolutely. Yeah. Like I don’t have, you know, because we’ve only been shown power over, we feel like we’re that competition thing, which is such a western concept, right? It’s like, I don’t have to be in competition with you. I can mess up my own star. And you can be your own stars, a bunch of stars in the universe. I’m just saying we’re all shining brightly, right? They all shine. And no star is competing with the other star because they all have their, their place. I am powerful, because I was created with purpose. And as long as I’m living in my purpose, and as long as I’m, you know, if I’m a relationship with you, I can communicate with you my needs, and its power and being able to say, Listen, this is what I need. And I’m not settling for anything less. And there’s power in you saying, You know what, I’m going to rise to the occasion. And also this is what I need. Exactly. I love it. I can have power with each other. Right? Right power
Dr. Connie Omari
with girl that is going to be my new mantra. Like seriously. Well, let me just step into this real quickly because we talked about this a little previously before we started but what does that look like for black women? and who are, you know, independent and successful, but like you said, like, I have been cautious of being angry in the workforce, as if because you know, the angry black woman that’s different from just like the ring, regular, angry person. So how do we find? You know, like, how do we, you know, we still have to deal with all of our everyday stuff, but within the context in the society, that is still very much
Dr. Ebony White
racist. Yeah. How do we do that in a healthy way? You know, what’s interesting? That’s what most of my research centers around. And it’s important to know that I don’t have a one size fits all answer, right. It’s about making the choices that work best for you. I can only tell you what I do, and what works for me. And so I made a decision last year, I was so affected by the Breanna Taylor murder. And I realized had, you know, having decided to code switch much of my life, I realized that no matter how I wore my hair, no matter how many letters I had, behind my name, know how many I had no matter how many classes I told her how much money I made. At the end of the day, your perceptions of me as a black woman is how you’re going to treat me. Right? And so since no matter what I do, you’re gonna treat me how you see me. I might as well be myself. Right. And so I no longer care. I mean, I’m aware of that angry black woman, right? That’s what my research is. I’m aware of that. Black woman, sexualized black woman, theater, black woman, like all of those things. I’m aware of it right. And it’s for me, I found power and saying I’m aware of it, and I’m choosing not to give into it. I’m choosing to say, you know, what, if I’m angry, my angry My anger is justified anger.
Dr. Connie Omari
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. No matter how other people,
Dr. Ebony White
it doesn’t matter. And as a matter of fact, while we’re talking about it, can we also talk about how what you did made me angry? In the first place?
Dr. Ebony White
Yeah, yes, yeah. Yes, you know,
Dr. Ebony White
Mm hmm. And so what do I encourage black women to encourage black women to not allow anyone to take their power away, to be foolproof to be you know, 100% foolproof, and the rub is deep, be okay with whatever consequences that brings, right? I’m okay. With the consequences of being myself. I am not okay, with the consequences of not being myself that that tears a piece of my soul away, I realized, like, every time I kept my mouth shut, or our free phrase something so that it’d be more palatable to somebody else. What I’m doing is I’m saying my true self isn’t worthy of being seen, right? And so I, I decided for myself my life, right? That it’s just better for me, I would prefer the consequences of me being myself, then the consequences of the code switch. So
Dr. Connie Omari
absolutely. Because like you said, at the end of the day, even if they see you that way, they’re gonna see you that way, period, no matter how you respond. Your way of looking at it,
Dr. Ebony White
that is, like, I’ve been teaching academic for how many years every year. So one of my students call me angry in my evaluations, really. And I’ll give you an example. And I’m talking about I’m gonna, I’m writing a book and what I’m talking about this in my book, but I remember I’m teaching an online class, so I don’t even have this face to face contact. I happen to teach an online class. And this one student one doing nothing, waited to the end of class and want to meet with me. Now I’ve reached out to the students several times throughout the term, eat with the student have the meeting and the student at the angles. Oh, you know, I just didn’t expect you to be so nice.
Dr. Ebony White
Well, wow. Wow.
Dr. Ebony White
I wonder what, like, what about me?
Dr. Connie Omari
Yeah.
Dr. Ebony White
Why would you not reach out to you all turn? Right, you know, I mean, like, it definitely wasn’t my behavior, but it was because of your perception of what you saw in my picture in my body, right? You don’t have you don’t have any other interactions with me, so that lets me like oh, it’s really like even me not before I even enter the room. People have already decided what they wanted to decide about me. So I’m just gonna be myself. I love that. I love that
Dr. Connie Omari
I think I did ask you where you see black family struggle, but what advice what advice would you give at promise black children who grow up in households where where there is addiction and violence and a lot of unhealthy sex, you know, or sexual, you know, relationships that are inappropriate. What would you tell a child In a situation like that, and from
Dr. Ebony White
Yeah, absolutely. So first of all, I believe in always giving people an opportunity to correct right. And so, um, I think it’s important for, for parents, to encourage their children to be honest. And for children to try honesty first, right. And so I would love to see, and I’ve had some of my teams do the same set parents, like, you know, when when you do this, or dad, when this happens, this is how I feel. I struggle to sleep at night because of this, this and that, right. And so I understand that some people, some definitely teens, young people don’t feel safe, saying those things. And so I also encourage them to use their friend group, their peer group, as a support. If they have an another adult they trust, whether that adult was at church or their adult was a coach or their adult was counselor, you know, always have a space for you to go. And then at the end of the day, if you feel like you don’t have anybody you have yourself and so take pen to paper, and write it out. But it is important to get it out because what you don’t talk out you will act out, right. And so it’s important to have some type of outlet to be able to express that I’m always going to advocate for counseling, if that is an option. I don’t know what the laws are everywhere. But I know in New Jersey, they passed a law a couple of years ago where teens don’t even have to get their parents permission to get know that. Yeah,
Dr. Connie Omari
also, I don’t think we have that here. I’m in North Carolina. Yeah,
Dr. Ebony White
yeah. So that’s okay. That’s good to know. Are their top three,
Dr. Connie Omari
are there any resources that you would encourage black families to utilize to help improve their coping skills? I’m
Dr. Ebony White
sure you know, it’s so interesting. I’m going to be transparent. I wasn’t even prepared with that. I should have brought some resources with me. But there are definitely some workbooks. I actually am I am a fan. I’m not 100% sold on DBT as a therapeutic technique, but I do love a lot of the DBT skills. So DBT is dialectical? Yes,
Dr. Connie Omari
that’s yes. I love I prefer the skills over the actual
Dr. Ebony White
Yeah, yeah. Right. So dialectical behavior, therapy, those skills or softness with self. That’s something I think that we can even expand on as a likeable right, just how we’re so because we’ve been hardened. We’re so hard. We’re hard on our kids were hard on our mates, we’re hard on ourselves. Like, yeah, like the way we talk to ourselves, the internal dialogue, the way we communicate one another how we’re always defensive, right? Because we’ve had to be, but checking that right, because we don’t have to be that way. 100% of the time, I leave my house and welcome to the world. I welcome to my work, yes, I need to have I need to be guarded, I need to be protected. But when I FaceTime my mom, I don’t have to have that up. I’m talking to you, I don’t have to have that up. I don’t have to bring that home to my partner, right? I can be honest about my day and be soft, right? And so I really like I encourage people to look and you can online, they have all that stuff for free. The DBT skills, I love softness, myself is one of my favorite. I
Dr. Connie Omari
love that I love tea skills. Well, let me ask you, because I think one of the problems that we have, and correct me if I’m wrong, because this is your territory. But you know, well, I guess that’s kind of what you’re saying, we don’t have that skill. Because a lot of times, you know, you take the black woman into the workforce, softness with skill might not be as effective, you know. So maybe she’s gonna fall into the angry black woman. But that’s you’re advised us to show up as yourself earrings.
Dr. Ebony White
Yeah, see you. So but it will be important to know, then that we need to talk add that softness with self as we come home, you know, to our children, or even if it’s just ourself, or, you know, family, whatever. Yeah, just make sure those social cues, rules apply even with soft yourself, right. So I think about how, you know, my mom used to always say, Don’t embarrass me, right, you know, know how to act, right? And there’s no standard way to act across the board, right? How I behave over my friend’s house is different than how I behave in church, it’s different than how I behave in the library is different than how people move with it, right? So the situation calls for a different set of behaviors, a different set of rules and norms. And so that same thing goes with how we’re communicating, right? The way I am communicating at work, that’s a different setting. I don’t have to be that way. What like you said, when I’m home, I don’t have to be that way with my children. I don’t have to be that way. With my friends, I have to be able to turn it off. Right? And honestly, being able to step outside of that allows us to be nurtured, right allows us to get fit allows people to see our vulnerability, so that then we’re better equipped to handle with those heart handle those heart spaces that we find ourselves in.
Dr. Connie Omari
Absolutely. All right. Is there anything that you’ve read or listened to recently that you think are black people can help to improve your cooking skills.
Dr. Ebony White
Here I am I headed up here, I guess it must have fell down on or do I have here? Nope. So I just bought this book it came out I think last year it’s called reenvisioning therapy with women of color. It’s a black feminist healing perspective. So I recommend folks read this, they’re black therapists, therapists working with black people, I recommend that they read those so that we aren’t confined by what the Western world tells us we need to do or what tells us is therapeutic. Right. And so that will be my resource for like clinicians. Absolutely. But therefore, families, I encourage them to start incorporating some soft time at home with their children. Particularly, you know, I work primarily with adolescents. And they go from one environment where they’re being braided to another environment where they don’t feel good enough to another right. So they, at the very least when they go home, they should be held. And I don’t even just mean physically, but just held you know what I mean? And so incorporating some regular, soft, soft time with with your family.
Dr. Ebony White
I love that.
Dr. Connie Omari
I love that. And honestly, we sometimes even even me with with the spouse, sometimes you feel like you don’t have time to do that, like it kind of falls off. And so it sounds like you’re saying we need to be intentional. Yeah. So making sure that we do that.
Dr. Ebony White
Yeah. What is
Dr. Connie Omari
a common myth that you’d like to talk about healthy coping skills?
Dr. Ebony White
A common myth? That self care is selfish. Oh, my God. Say it
Dr. Connie Omari
again? Yes, yes,
Dr. Ebony White
that is a myth. You know, as Madame Audrey Lord said, you know, self care, is an act of defiance really is, especially for black women, right? They don’t want us to care for ourselves, right. So self care is is a right. Not a privilege. And I need it to be able to do the work that I do to make it through the day I better be caring for right. Yeah. Myself, right. Oh, it’s also a myth that you have to take care of others before you take care of yourself. Right? That’s also a myth, because you can’t pour from an empty cup. So
Dr. Ebony White
you absolutely. Yeah. Awesome. Well,
Dr. Connie Omari
thank you, Dr. Evany. So we’re going to transition to a part of the show that’s called What’s good. It’s nice and simple. I give you a hypothetical situation. And you take what you have kind of shared with us today and give some insights into how you can use it.
Dr. Ebony White
Listen, I love a good game. Oh. All right.
Dr. Connie Omari
Well, here we go. So meet Barney. Barney is a 38 year old black woman with two children, ages seven and four. Bonnie has been in a very in a marriage for 10 years, and has followed all the rules that Mary had the children, and was very committed to her husband. But she’s recently learned that she is very unhappy and wants to leave. She struggles with making the decision to leave, because she fears being judged by the members of her church. How would you advise body to proceed? And what type of coping skills skills do you have for her? Oh,
Dr. Ebony White
this and that’s the whole I don’t have enough time to go through that. Right. That’s a big situation. So I have questions. So I want to know, you know, what, how Bonnie came to this realization? Right? What’s going on that she’s unhappy? What’s going on? That’s affected her decision to leave? Like, what type of relationship is this? Is it a? Is it just that she wants? It’s a healthy relationship, but she realized it’s just not what she wants? Or is it an unhealthy relationship and that, you know, have some other things going on in there? So I would, my first step would to be to hear Bonnie story and to ask a bunch of questions and see how I can best support her. But, and then, you know, given what she says probably a technique I will use is, it’s something I developed, but it’s basically a pros and cons thing. Right? And it’s really rooted in CBT. But this whole if then then what, right? So where she says, you know, if I leave, you know, I’m going to be judged by my church family, okay. So if they judge you, then what? Well, if they judge me, it means that blah, blah, blah, okay? And so if that happens, then what and what? And go all the way to the end and
Dr. Connie Omari
eat doing that until you don’t have anything else?
Dr. Ebony White
Things I keep going here because at the end of the day, typically people don’t say I die, or they kill me, right? It’s not like oh, so so it’s really Survival. Right? Exactly. It’s survival. So okay, how do you plan on surviving? And then I haven’t go the other way. So say they don’t judge you. Right? Because this is all based off of her imagination, where her church family might be supportive. Patricia, we might say, let’s pray her church really might you know what I mean? And so, you know, we always think of worst case scenarios, but I do the scenario that she has first and go down the line. And then I offer the alternative. And that the either way, like you said, it’s survivable.
Dr. Connie Omari
So to my clients who are hearing me when you hear me do this technique, we are crediting Dr. Ebony, but we will I will be implementing that in my sessions. I love it. Oh, my Absolutely. And what? Also Well, Dr. Edna, you have shared a wealth of information with us today, I am sure our listeners are going to want to find you and maybe see how to work with you. So can you give us some information about where if someone’s looking for therapists in New Jersey, or wherever you’re practicing, or how they can, you know, continue to be inspired by you?
Dr. Ebony White
Absolutely. And so if you’re looking for a therapist, I actually have therapists who work with me as well. So you can go to my website, it’s www that center for markers.org. So that’s C E, N, T E, R, F, O R M, AR CEUs, that work, and you can actually look at the therapists, they’re all black therapists, and request an appointment. If you just want to learn more about me, you can go to my personal website, which is www.dr ebony white.com. And you can learn more about me the things that I’m having going on speak things where I’m speaking and all of that.
Dr. Connie Omari
Yeah, I’m just gonna put both of those links in the show notes. So for people who are listening, you will just look on the page and just click and you’ll find it. Awesome. Yeah. Is there anything else you have for our audience today? Dr. Anthony? No, I
Dr. Ebony White
really enjoyed our conversation. Absolutely. I’m so excited that you had me on here.
Dr. Connie Omari
Absolutely. It’s an honor. It’s a pleasure. And thank you so much for sharing your healthy coping skills with our listeners. Absolutely. Take care.
Dr. Ebony White
You too. All right. Bye.