Dr. Connie Omari
Hey, hey Hey and welcome to the black Marriage and Family Therapy matters podcast where we connect black families to black therapists. Today’s guest is Mrs. Kimberly Reese Sherman. Hi, Kimberly.
Kimberly Reese Sherman, LCSW
I’m good. I’m good. How are you?
Dr. Connie Omari
Good.
Kimberly Reese Sherman, LCSW
Kimberly is good.
Dr. Connie Omari
All right. All right. I want to call you Kimberly Reese, but I’m gonna do you like no
Kimberly Reese Sherman, LCSW
That’s okay.
Dr. Connie Omari
I love it. I love it. All right, Kimberly Reese Sherman is a licensed psychotherapist and clinician consultant based out of Charlotte, North Carolina with over a decade decades of specialized experience. Kimberly helps brave people do the hard yet rewarding work they identify that they need to do so that they can have relationships they desire with themselves primarily and others. She also empowers other clinicians with entrepreneurial mindsets to overcome their anxieties and tap into their strengths and abilities to see their goals come to fruition. Kimberly obtained her bachelors of Social Work from Marietta college and completed her Masters of Social Work at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill go hills. She is committed to shifting the cuffs the culture of mental health services for black people by promoting quality therapeutic and consultative services. Kimberly is also in Enneagram, infinity Enneagram Enneagram enthusiast and certified Enneagram. Coach, she integrates the tool, the use of the tool in practice with our clients and has her brand the melanated Enneagram with a mission to provide tools and resources for self discovery, personal growth and healing to the black community community using the gospel plus the Enneagram. Wow, love that. Yes, yes. I’m so excited to be here. This is awesome. Well listen. So as you can tell by me butchering this word. It’s probably something that we’re not as familiar with. But I you know why it’s important for us to be familiar with it. So why don’t you tell us a little bit more about this tool? And then how to serve our listeners?
Kimberly Reese Sherman, LCSW
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Again, thank you so much for inviting me for the space to just connect, to talk about a tool and a resource that I have personally grown to really have an appreciation for and use for. And anytime we start talking about self growth, healing self awareness, people really longed for something practical, you know, those conversations, they tend to be very people feel like they’re very, you know, spiritual or like Frou Frou. But as far as like practicality, how do you take it and see some application that can get kind of tough. And so I feel like that’s what the Enneagram can be. The easiest way to explain it is that it’s a type of personality assessment. So if you think about other personality assessments people are familiar with, like the Myers Briggs is a pretty popular one. It can be considered a type of personality assessment, but I always offer that it’s deeper and wider than most personality assessments, most of those tools tend to pay attention to, like external behaviors, the Enneagram is paying attention to what’s going on at your core, what are your core motivations. And so as a result of having an awareness of that you can better understand why you do some of the things that you do, why you have some of the patterns that you have. And then with that awareness, you can choose to make some different choices. And so this tool kind of lays out what a path and making some of those just different choices, what that can look like, versus again, what you’re accustomed to.
Dr. Connie Omari
I love that. I love that. So Kim, I know you’ve noticed this as well in your practice, but, you know, in our community, we can have a hard time getting black people to therapy. How do you think this tool can be, like a motivator or or an asset to just the regular traditional talk therapy that we have such a stigma against?
Kimberly Reese Sherman, LCSW
Yeah, yeah. So what I hear most often Honestly, when I asked when I introduced this tool, and I try to utilize it pretty early on in the therapeutic process with my clients, again, kind of as an as an assessment tool. And so but in the process of Person landing on what their dominant type is. What I hear people say is like, wow, how is it that there’s a something that can explain or have the language for experiences or emotions, or things that I’ve always thought or felt about myself that I’ve never even said out loud before, like, so it can really just make you feel seen. And I learned that I just appreciate it so much therapeutically, because it just levels out the playing field a little bit when it comes to language, being able to capture notions and again, experiences or patterns, things that keep coming up, we have the language for that. I can give you an example.
Dr. Connie Omari
I want to know what type of language it is, I can’t even say the tool, let alone know the Enneagram.
Kimberly Reese Sherman, LCSW
Enneagram. You get it, Okay. It’s but it’s because it looks very intimidating. So from jump, when you see the word and then also i’ll go ahead and address this to this symbol can be kind of off putting for some people, because it looks a little weird. It looks a little weird. But when you learn about it, so Enneagram, the breakdown the word e n n, e, i think that’s from the Greek means eight, sorry, nine. And Graham means written. So the Enneagram is capturing nine different personality types. And so when you hear people talking about the Enneagram, and figuring out their type, you hear them reference a number. So, so nine different personality types across humanity. Oftentimes, when people are trying to figure out what their dominant type is, it’s tough because they can see aspects of themselves in all nine types. And that’s exactly how it’s supposed to be we do have all types in us. But we have one dominant type in which again, going back to those core motivations, where that we identify with, and then we kind of develop our personality around. And so what’s what’s one of the reasons learning about this is so incredibly important, is so going, I keep referencing these patterns. When stuff feels so familiar like that, when we’re so used to operating using some of these patterns, it can become easy to think that you are those patterns or think that you are your personality. So you’ve heard it, you know, people say, well, that’s just, you know, I was just who I am, I mean, I had this Michael jays, that’s just who I am. And that’s not the case, you know, we aren’t our personality, you know, we’re so much more than that. And so again, this tool helps us to understand how we can slip into our personality and cling to it when we’re not healthy, when we’re afraid or when any of those core motivators are activated. So if we can know that that’s what we’re doing, then we can choose to step away from that. And in doing that, you know, when your your true essence, you know, who you really are, that starts to emerge. So, okay, so the example I was going to offer, we got nine types, I’ll go with typing, yes. Type eight is known as the protector. Eight are generally very, very
Dr. Connie Omari
Type A or eight, the number eight, eight, so yep,
So we’re talking numbers, known to be very, very direct, very, very bold. eights are not typically they don’t have discomfort with taking up space. eights, have a struggle with anger. And it’s very outward. So when an eight is feeling some type of way about something, whether you know that aid or not, you were probably going to be quite aware of it, you can feel it even if they don’t say anything. So what I’m referring to is an intensity, that eights have to learn how to manage. Oftentimes, when eights get angry, it’s because there’s some type of perceived injustice. And so again, eights being protectors, you know, they want to go into motion and protect either themselves or the people that they perceive to be vulnerable. But when not healthy, you know, that intensity can manifest and present in ways that get in their way. And so, just that language, you know, with ace being able to talk about that intensity because it’s also something that they’re pretty, they tend to be pretty insecure about. People miss understanding it as if they don’t care. Because but they do. eights are very love working with ace, they’re so soft and mushy on the inside, but they really fear being vulnerable. So, being able to use that word.
I can think of a lot of As.
Kimberly Reese Sherman, LCSW
I’m sure you can yes a lot with them. A lot of there are a lot of eights. So but being able to use that term intensity in our work, because, you know, that really resonates with them.
Dr. Connie Omari
And they were talking about me, because I’d never heard of it. But now that you described it, I’m like, Oh, I know, I know, some eight. What is it good, then when I guess you’re kind of, you know, even beyond the therapy room? Why would it be good to know that you’re an eight or a seven? Or, you know, what’s the benefit in that?
Kimberly Reese Sherman, LCSW
Well, for one, I keep, I keep referring to self awareness. And it’s interesting lately, that that term, has been coming up with the folks I work with, in this sense that it’s like, they both appreciate it. But with more of it. At times, you feel like you wish you didn’t have it, you know, because as you see more, it just, it feels like more work to do. So totally just want to acknowledge that. But when you can have an appreciation for it. being self aware is an incredible gift. Again, it can help just broaden our perspective, as far as what we feel like our options are, when you’re hot, kind of have those same toxic, limiting patterns that are kind of are hardwired into you based on you know, your experiences, what you learn, to some degree, they have served you because it’s helped you to survive, right. But when you can realize that they aren’t serving you, or that you like, feel like there’s a pool for you to do something in a different way to possibly get a different result. It can be a gift. So it definitely feel like it helps us with being more more self aware. And again, when people talk about wanting to grow, and just improve and be this better version of themselves, not trying to paint this out to be the answer to everything, not by any means it’s like do reference it as a tool. But especially when you’re able to pair this tool with the gospel, and, you know, have that being in a space with a clinician. It just, it’s it’s been, it’s been incredible to see what clients aren’t feeling more empowered to be able to do for themselves. Once they RP is over, you know, having that awareness of those patterns and choices for themselves.
Dr. Connie Omari
So I don’t know. Oh, okay, go ahead.
Kimberly Reese Sherman, LCSW
Sorry, one more thing, communication. So having a better understanding of yourself, if you understand all nine of those types, and you start like I was explaining, he said, Hmm, I feel like I know, some kind of immediately right, to step into other people’s shoes and have a better understanding. And that does wonders for relationships. So that’s the other big piece. So that’s a benefit for relationships. And
Dr. Connie Omari
if you know what number you are, you teach all of them so that you’ll know how to interact.
Kimberly Reese Sherman, LCSW
Oh, yes, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. And even knowing what your dominant type is, like I said, you know, we have all nine types. In essence, just one type that was our dominant type. So we relate to some of the other types.
Dr. Connie Omari
Right off that you can kind of spit through quickly. Yeah. So what what is it? What are the other ones?
Kimberly Reese Sherman, LCSW
Yeah, so we’ll start with a gut triad. So that’s going to be at the very top of the Enneagram symbol. And that includes types a that I just touched on, it’s the protector. And the labels that I’m assigning, you know, try not to get too hung up on them, but they do help to describe, you know, some of the characteristics of the types, but you’ll hear different, they’re different labels for them. That’s why we pretty much just go with the numbers. Okay. So type eight, known as the protector, type man is right in the center of the gut triad, and at the very top of the Enneagram. That’s known as the peacemaker. And then type one is also in the gut triad. In type one is known as the perfectionist. So there are different triads this tool is it’s layered in many ways, like I said, it’s a very wide and deep tool, it can feel kind of overwhelming, it can feel like a bit of a rabbit hole. So I can be helpful to have a coach to kind of walk you through it. But the system is broken down into triads in a number of different ways. So that’s you can be referring to the gut triad,
Dr. Connie Omari
So there’s like three for the protector, three for the law.
Kimberly Reese Sherman, LCSW
So protector, peacemaker, and perfectionist types, eight, nine and one, those three types are in the gut triad. That means instinctively, they kind of know through their bodies. I offered this example. As a therapist, we’ve talked about emotions a lot. I asked her eight nine or one typically after you know at the beginning of our work together, Hey, how are you feeling? They’ll think about what they’re doing what they’re going to do, but not so much their emotions. So we’ll move on to the feelings. Try it now. That includes types two, which is the helper, okay? Type three, which is the achiever. And type four, which is the individualist. Okay, so these types, again, they’re in the feelings, try it or the heart, try it. So you ask these types about their emotions with the exception of type three, they’re going to have a pretty strong sense of how they feel because they know I say, type three is an exception, because threes tend to repress their emotions a little bit. Being achievers, they feel like their feelings can get in the way. So they try to push them down to just do but at their best when they can be in touch with their emotions. threes are clenched. Alright, so that’s the palest triad. Last but not least, the head triad. That includes types five, which is known as the observer, type six, known as the loyal skeptic, and type seven, which is known as the enthusiast. And so these types, know, by knowing they’re in the head triad, so data logic, information is kind of how they know. So they have to the goal, again, going back to the triads is to have balance, you know, if you’re, if you’re a dominant type isn’t the head, try it, you got to stretch yourself to be in touch with your other centers of intelligence, how you feel, and what you do that helpful, well, that’s helpful.
Dr. Connie Omari
It is a lot. We have such a short amount of time, I can imagine, you know, as a client of yours, when you get to sit down and look at stuff and ask question, it makes a lot more sense. Yeah. Yeah. So that’s great.
Kimberly Reese Sherman, LCSW
A lot of different resources we use to help it make sense. Yeah. And handouts.
Dr. Connie Omari
Good. We’ll probably get asked you for some references for that. Towards the end. So um, well, that’s good. Because, you know, one of the things that, you know, I was kind of getting confused, not really confused, but just kind of brainstorming as you were talking, is, I know, we talk a lot about signs, which I’m not big into zodiac signs or anything like that. But I thought it was interesting, because, you know, it’s kind of like, you know, people say is a Gemini or an Aries. And, but this sounds like a more sophisticated, of course, far more sophisticated. Yeah. tool to it. Yeah.
Kimberly Reese Sherman, LCSW
Yeah. And it’s not, it’s not uncommon for people to relate, Chuck Yeah, try to correlate this with a something that zodiac signs, or astrology, or, again, other types of personality tests. But I guess that until you do start to get into it, do some of this work. And make no mistake about it, it really is work. I mean, you just working with somebody to figure out what their type is. They don’t land on that type. And they’re not like, oh, yeah, this is me. I mean, in most cases, you read some of this information, and you do you feel you feel seen, and some of it is it’s uncomfortable. But it’s necessary, in order for us to be able to pay better attention. Just this idea that, you know, you ever walked into a room and you realize that you didn’t know what you walked into the room to get all the time, no idea that, you know, there are aspects of ourselves if that’s the case, you know, we’re just kind of walking around on autopilot. Totally just not aware. For all of us, we have blind spots, there are things about ourselves that we just don’t pay attention to haven’t paid attention to. And, and it’s been because, you know, again, going back to survival and and kind of protecting ourselves, but when you are in a position where you feel like you want to pay more attention. So I have and unfortunately, they’re not a lot of CO coaches or teachers that talk about this tool that are black or brown.
Dr. Connie Omari
Yeah, I’ve never heard of it, but it sounds like such a great resource to have. So I’m glad you’re sharing it with us today. Um, well, what do you wish black families knew about understanding the importance of personalities?
Kimberly Reese Sherman, LCSW
Yeah, yeah, I wish I wish we knew. I wish black families knew that we kind of what I hinted at earlier that we are our personality. Like I’ve alluded to, you know, they’re they’re components of our patterns that feel very safe. Sometimes I correlated to this a box you know, and we know about compartmentalize Isaac, you know, we know about having to put stuff away so that we can just keep going. Because, like people, that’s what we have had to do is keep going. And so it can feel comfortable to, you know, to stay in those boxes or have those boxes. And so the idea of getting outside of those boxes can be scary. But a big part of it is not knowing. And so I keep referring to this kind of being a map to help us understand what that can look like. So you don’t have to stay in that box. Or just understanding that that is a box that you’re choosing to be in, you aren’t your personality, you know, so you don’t have to keep settling for some of the patterns when you don’t want to you don’t have to keep hiding behind this mask, your personality, those are all this just a mask that we wear is one, we’re not feeling feel sad.
Dr. Connie Omari
Yeah. I’m just as I hearing this, I’m even thinking about my two children, and the fact that they’re like, night and day, even though same mom, same dad, same household, same upbringing, but they’re just completely different. And I think we do this as parents, I think we do this as partners and spouses, I think we do this. Even amongst like, extended family members and friends and stuff is have like an ideal type of relationship. And think that are an ideal type of person, personality. And think that that is the way things should go such that if a person was different from that, then then we judge that as opposed to understanding that they have a different personality. So he can you talk a little bit more about what that looks like, and what type of harm we do by by participating in that.
Kimberly Reese Sherman, LCSW
Yeah, yeah. Anything, anything we put on ourselves, or children or family members, like limiting can be harmful. And so even going back and make use of this tool, anytime that feels like, you know, it’s limiting, then that’s not, that’s not what, that’s not the intent. Because we do, we need to be able to have the space to feel accepted where we are, as we are in order for us to be able to thrive. You know, so as a parent, with children, even if you’re seeing things that, you know, you’re telling yourself, and possibly inevitably, you know, relating to your child, and less than ideal, you know, we just want to do, again, we want to be aware of that, in most cases, that has more to do with something that’s going on, you know, with us internally, then does our child, even if it’s just this notion of being able to accept things more, and that feels the need to feel like you have to control and oftentimes, that’s what that comes out of that, that judgment, it’s not what should is because something feels like is out of our control. So again, being able to have that awareness and an idea of like, what to do with that how to say process a lot, you have to sit with that you need to work through that. What does that mean? Right. So this, this, this tool can kind of help you understand what that means. And kind of outlines some steps or some practical things for you to do in order to do that. And so that puts you in a position to be able to respond in a different way.
Dr. Connie Omari
Got it? Got it very useful, very useful.
Um excuse me where do you see black families struggling in terms of dealing with different personalities.
Kimberly Reese Sherman, LCSW
Like I said, getting stuck kind of using that as a way to promote some of the same patterns over and over again. Oh, well, that’s just how I am Oh, that’s just how she is.
Dr. Connie Omari
So what they do, instead of saying, Oh, this how they are what would you suggest?
Kimberly Reese Sherman, LCSW
One thing I suggest a lot with clients is like when you can wink and realize you’re being critical. Trying to switch up the tone, switch up the like train of thought and to get more curious. And so instead of just labeling him or her or you know, that situation is just, that’s just how it is. That’s just who they are. I’m getting curious and trying to understand it better. But again, I think, you know, keep keep going back to that self awareness, we can recognize it that criticism or being judgmental in our relationships, how that can be a call for us to just pay attention more to like what’s happening internally for us, because that’s what we have control over. You know, parents, I work with parents for most of my career, really, oftentimes grapple with this notion that even though you may have carried that child for nine months, and published in labor, and gay that child life, that child is now a whole nother person, and you cannot control that child. So when we can pay attention to what we can control, which is us and our stuff, and being more self aware, growing and healing for ourselves, we end up doing wonders for the people in our lives or relationships in our lives.
Dr. Connie Omari
So yeah, yeah, no, I love it. What advice would you give someone wanting to learn more about this assessment?
Kimberly Reese Sherman, LCSW
Take your time, like we found it, it can be a lot, and it can feel overwhelming. But to take your time, to not do it in isolation, one of the best ways to better understand this tool, I think, is in order to aim about yourself, especially as a black person, I feel like in this country’s in this in a sense of a community that feels safe. So that you can have people who you know, can validate and say up, yes, I know that I know what that feels like, I feel you’re, you know, understand, or I’m with you, you’re not by yourself in this in this on this path, because I keep referencing it as work and it is, you know, you’ll feel you’ll feel you’ll feel like you are working and doing some of these and addressing some of these patterns that we’re talking about. So I’ll take your time, consider doing it and in a context of community. And into into not get stuck, you know, in in this with this tool, being a personality assessment and kind of like you’ve wrestled reference with astrology, you know, people can really get into, you know, the types and the characteristics and stop there. And it’s not there. Yeah, stop it. Oh, okay. Well, I’m a two, I’m a helper, that means, you know, I’m loving. And, you know, I’m very emotional, and I’m very giving, and just kind of stop it just being those characteristics, instead of using the tool to help promote, you know, ongoing growth and self awareness. So, I would say, don’t just stop at figuring out Oh, that’s my type. And that’s just like, I keep referencing that’s just who I am. Because knowing your type helps you to understand who you aren’t.
Dr. Connie Omari
Yeah, love it. Love it. Love it. Love it. Um, so you said Take your time. I just want to we’ll go into exactly how when, which was the end of the show, excuse me. But are you? Can they, for people who want to use this assessment, can they? Can you serve them? Because I know you said there’s not a lot of white people or black people in this space?
Kimberly Reese Sherman, LCSW
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So it didn’t go well. But like we go to, we’ve actually created our own tests.
Dr. Connie Omari
So it’s not just in North Carolina. It can be anywhere. Yes. Oh, good. Good. Good. Okay, we’ll definitely get that information at the end. You What advice would you give, just so any, anything that you can have read recently or listened to, that you can refer to kind of help black people to understand more about the importance of, of personalities and understanding different personalities?
Kimberly Reese Sherman, LCSW
Anything that I have read recently or listen to? Um, I can’t really put my finger on anything that I read recently. I will I will refer refer clients to particular podcast pretty frequently, that’s helpful that it’s run by another visa certified coach as well and he’s African American. And so that context tends to be pretty helpful. But looking at the quote your questions and then one more time,
Dr. Connie Omari
Just IT resources, listening or reading resources that people can get, they can just help them understand more about personalities.
Kimberly Reese Sherman, LCSW
It’s so I’m so that’s what we’re gonna tell you the name of that pocket, Yes. Okay, so do it for the gram podcast, Milton Stewart, okay. I see my resource, the melanated Enneagram. Just go to the website melanated enneagram.com. It has an assessment on it that we’ve created.
Dr. Connie Omari
Assessment right from your website.
Kimberly Reese Sherman, LCSW
You know, there are a number of assessments out there. This tool, honestly, it’s one of my favorites. It’s a short book, you can get it on Amazon and get the digital version.
Dr. Connie Omari
Enneagram yep, yep.
Kimberly Reese Sherman, LCSW
David Daniels. And so this has a test in it in itself. It’s a paragraph test. So there are different tests, you can take Google Enneagram test, you’ll be able to find different ones, some are paid, getting more detailed results. Some are much more simple. Like I said, the one in this book is pretty, pretty straightforward. The whole point being that there’s not going to be any tests, it’s like 100% accurate. You know, the test is just supposed to be a starting point, you know, for you to start to pay attention to some of the notions and patterns that we’re talking about. This helps you to be more aware of.
Dr. Connie Omari
So, is there any myth about personalities that you just want to shut down as the personality expert?
Kimberly Reese Sherman, LCSW
Yeah. We are. People really believe that that’s who they are.
Dr. Connie Omari
What is it that people believe that that’s who they are?
Kimberly Reese Sherman, LCSW
Yes. Okay. That you are the that that’s my, yeah, people can confuse that, your personality with, with, with who you are. So that that’s not who you are.
Dr. Connie Omari
Okay, it made the difference, because I thought that is who you are. Your part.
Kimberly Reese Sherman, LCSW
So your personality, those are like your defense mechanisms. Those are the patterns that we’re referring to those about that hard wiring, we’re talking about some of that being a combination of learned behavior, stuff that you observed, so
Dr. Connie Omari
So what does that mean?
Kimberly Reese Sherman, LCSW
You say, That’s not who you are, though, that we are, that we are more than that, you know, that there’s that we’re worse spirits, you know, we’re spiritual beings, that there’s an essence, to us that bigger and deeper, and just more than more than a personality. So again, we think of the personality of the box, or mask, or kind of the glasses that we put on. And so these nine personalities give you the nine different perspectives, nine different ways we know nine different ways we all see the world. But that’s not who we are. You know, it’s just an aspect of, of our being, we’re more than that. And so when we can know that we’re more than that we don’t have to cling to that so much. If you’re an achiever, that means that it’s very, very important for you to crush goals. But it’s important for threes and know that there’s so much more than crushing their goals, right? That if you never crush another goal three, that you’re that you are still like, impeccable, you know, you have so much to offer and so much to give to the world. So knowing how to take that mask off and not be your personality, you know that there’s that you’re deeper than that?
Dr. Connie Omari
Absolutely, absolutely. I’m wondering how this knowledge because I even know, I keep going back to strategy just because I’ve heard about that, that’s more mainstream. And I get it’s not nearly as sophisticated as what you’re talking about. But I know that even the biggest thing, because the biggest thing I know about people who adhere to that or use that is how it prepares for dating. Like a lot of times people will say like, Oh, he’s a Taurus or on date an Aries or something like that. So I’m just wondering when I hear you talk about these personalities, does it? Is it Is there any benefit in knowing your personality and maybe what personality you might vibe with? Very well, I can imagine. Two achievers are probably be real boring. You know, and I say that because I identify as a teacher and I don’t think I wasn’t.
Kimberly Reese Sherman, LCSW
So a question. Yeah, yes. So again, yes, as long as we aren’t, we aren’t doing anything about this in a limiting way. So what that means is you can’t you don’t want to tell yourself, well, that means I can’t be with another three comma three. Because if that three is healthy, if you’re both healthy, you can be with any type and it’d be a beautiful, healthy flourishing relationship, again, if you’re both healthy, if you’re so that’s another aspect of this tool is, you know, once you know what your type is, it outlines for you what it looks like, what those the levels of alignment look like. So what it looks like when you are healthy, when you’re kind of healthy, and when you’re not so healthy. And so when you can, when you have that, it doesn’t matter who you’re connected with, but still absolutely beneficial to know, absolutely beneficial to know when it comes to dating, when it comes to marriage, when it comes to parents, when it comes to siblings, when it comes to all of your co workers so helpful in the workplace, all of your relationships, because again, it helps you to be able to like take those glasses off that that person has on and put them on and be able to kind of see the world through their lens, so you can understand better.
Dr. Connie Omari
I love this because you know, I do a lot of you know, in my relationship work with cut with clients, I just do a lot of helping them understand, like men typically be very different from the women that that we serve, and vice versa. And so I do a lot of educational and well, when a when a man says this, this is really what they mean, this is what they experience in educating the women and vice versa. So I can’t imagine how much more data and how much more clearly you your your assessment is. Because it really gets in there.
Kimberly Reese Sherman, LCSW
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And again, it’s not limiting. So you know, we’re not talking about for example, ones are known as perfectionist, so they like to get everything right, that doesn’t mean that that’s the only personality type that likes to get everything right, all nine types, you know, as people you know, can like to get things right. But knowing those different lenses, you can understand what the motivations are. So the motivations for that one to get things right will be very different from the motivations from a type five to get things, right. They’re very different from a type seven to get things right. So um, so that’s the other other other piece like it can just really help us understand. Understand the why. And that’s where a lot of people get stuck. I just did this man, I was like, I just don’t understand Washington, I’ll just say Washington. So help give us that language and understand that.
Dr. Connie Omari
Awesome. Well, thank you so much for this. Kim, we really appreciate it. If you don’t mind, I’d like to transition really quickly into a part of the show and call what’s good. What’s good is a part of a show where we create a hypothetical situation. And we ask for our clinicians to kind of walk us through it. Can we start with that? Sure. All right. So me Kathy, Kathy is a 25 year old woman who was born in the United States black woman. And she comes from an abusive household with a lot of emotional physical abuse and domestic violence amongst her parents. She learned very early on that she needs to in order to survive in her home, she needed to be as small and as invisible and as absent as possible. Recently, she has moved out and now she is on our own. And she is trying to find her way of the world. She knows she has a personality that she’s been hiding, but she doesn’t know how to bring that personality out. And she doesn’t even know who she is because it part of her survival. Was it not existing? How would you advise Kathy to find yourself?
Kimberly Reese Sherman, LCSW
Yep. So as a clinician, it would be I would suggest that Kathy work with the therapist first. Because what you’re describing, it sounds like Kathy has been through some childhood trauma. And so going back to what we’ve talked about, for most of this show this, this tool doesn’t cover everything you know. So there are still situations and circumstances where it’s in your best interest to work with the clinician. And so when it comes to things such as trauma, that’s one of those scenarios. So I would suggest that Kathy connect with a clinician who has experience in working with trauma, and I do have and so I so I so what I would suggest, for her, one of the first things we do is to learn how to take care of ourselves. And this notion of self care, especially for black women. It tends to be a bit of a journey, just like healing, growth and self awareness. Because as you get to know yourself better as you learn to not shrink yourself as she has, and to show up. You’ve learned how to take care of yourself in different ways and more to evolutionary ways, a lot of women talk about self care from a physical standpoint. And so what we do is we focus on the fact that your self care is absolutely physical, but it’s emotional, you have ways to take care of yourself emotionally, it’s spiritual, it’s social, you have to have ways of taking care of yourself, in the workplace as well. So starting there, learning how to really take care of yourself. Because as we do this work, and understanding what it means to show up more, it’s gonna they’re gonna be moments where you know, we’re going to be activated, some people refer to those as triggers, where you know, you feel yourself trying to step out of this box that you’ve come to be very comfortable in at times in your life. And so that can be scary, and you can feel a pole to go back. And so being able to recognize that and manage it by taking care of yourself. And so the self care ends up being a tool, again, that we have to use throughout the process of doing that trauma work. And so just going back to the personality part, again, that’s not who we are. Sometimes, some of the things we’ve learned in our childhood that does that contributes to who we tell ourselves, we are. Sometimes, you know, we’ve learned to, like we talked about threes, set goals and achieve as a means to cope. Or it’s not uncommon for nines, to tend to string peacemakers, being peacemakers they just want everybody to be good. And so they can tell themselves that you know, what they want, or what’s important to them, that’s not a big deal. They’ll just go along with whatever works for everybody else. And so learning that that’s not who you are, that you’re more than that, what is important to tapping into that all the while, maintaining that very intentional self care, and is doing that taking one foot in front of the other, you know, this type of work tends to be deep, and slow, not quick and fast. And so being able to carve out baby steps each and every day, towards this version of yourself that is not afraid to show up and take up space.
Dr. Connie Omari
Yes, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. This was awesome. So this was I was different. This is not what I expect it to be honest. And I don’t know if I’m speaking for other people as well. But I was like, personalities, you know, really, what can we learn from that. But there’s so much and it’s not dry material, I guess I’m thinking about in school when I you know, take in personality and development. I was like Walt Walt, but you have this drive and this enthusiasm about you that I think is very intoxicating. So I think you would draw people in anyway, no matter the topic, but then to something that that probably lasts, at least to me, like Yeah, yeah, no, yeah, it’s not.
Kimberly Reese Sherman, LCSW
It’s not just you when I first introduced it to, especially my clients that are of color, they’re like, well so, but yes, thank you. I appreciate the feedback.
Kimberly Reese Sherman, LCSW
And I appreciate the opportunity.
Dr. Connie Omari
Good, I’m happy. So just remind us one more time, where can our listeners find you because y’all need to take this test?
Kimberly Reese Sherman, LCSW
Yeah, so I am on Instagram that’s at K ri k r e s e LCSW. melanated. Enneagram is also links are on my Instagram page, but it’s just at melanated Enneagram. You can check us out on our website, the melanated enneagram.com upon the test there. And then if you want to connect with our practice on the risk collective that’s also also on Instagram. And our website is the reef collected.com
Dr. Connie Omari
All right, my friend, thank you so much for joining us.
Kimberly Reese Sherman, LCSW
Thank you for having me. Have a great day. Thank you. Bye