Dr. Connie Omari
Hey, hey, hey and welcome to the black Marriage and Family Therapy matters podcast where we connect black families to black therapists. Today’s guest is LaTonya Tolan. Hi LaTonya.
LaTonya Tolan LCSW
Hey, how are you? Thank you for having me.
Dr. Connie Omari
Great. Great. You’re welcome. Thank you for being here. Force. Should we tell? I guess a little bit about you?
LaTonya Tolan LCSW
Sure. Hey, everybody. My name is Tanya, tell them I’m a licensed clinical social worker. I’m coming to us from Cali.
Dr. Connie Omari
I didn’t know that California.
LaTonya Tolan LCSW
Wow. Okay. I am the founder and CEO of soul care for black clinicians. Provide my team and I provide mental health therapy, coaching, consulting, additional wellness support, including support for organizations that employ black healers, so, excuse me, my definition of clinician and healer looks different than most right. So tell us what that means. Yeah, so for me, you know, typically in the world of social work therapy psychology clinician is that have any of those degrees, right. And of course, I adapt that as well. But in addition to that, my definition of clinician is any person that is a healer. So that could mean you know, you are also a massage therapist, I am a doctor, a nurse, you know, anybody that is in the healing professions, and specifically black healing profession, you know, black healers, I got you, that’s what we do. We focus all about you.
Dr. Connie Omari
I love it. Because we’re more in that caretaking ability or capacity. We don’t have a lot of people like yourself who are focusing on our needs.
LaTonya Tolan LCSW
And wasn’t really and I’ll go ahead says,
Dr. Connie Omari
Well, I just want to say one of the things that we do is we teach our clients, you can’t force it pour from an empty cup. But sometimes we’re depleted and we’re still trying to we still trying to get
LaTonya Tolan LCSW
Yeah, absolutely. You you literally write in my brain way. Because I was gonna say that very same thing. I said that same thing to my clients all the time. And as much as we give personally and professionally, you know, we still have real life happening. I know. Absolutely. We still need therapy and support. And I have a therapist as well, like I do too. Yes. Hello, you know, so it’s definitely something that is as well needed. Yeah,
Dr. Connie Omari
Well, thank you so much for identifying that gap. And bridging that gap. And oh, god, yes, that was all God.
Well, let’s talk about that. Because I think we discussed privately and now openly that how important spirituality is, especially in our community. So what does that look like from you?
LaTonya Tolan LCSW
Yeah, so for sure, again, my business is soul care for black clinicians. And my belief is that you can’t care for your soul, if you are not connected to the person that created your soul.
Dr. Connie Omari
I love that
LaTonya Tolan LCSW
I am. So thank you. But that’s real deal, right? So really, really focusing in and being in alignment with the things that we hear internally. Because my belief is that, you know, our first mind as people call it really is the Holy Spirit. And so that Holy Spirit is a part of your soul, you’re not listening and following that, you’re not going to be happy, you’re going to have some regrets. Right. So along with that a big part of my theoretical orientation, how I serve people is really infusing spirituality into the psychotherapy.
Dr. Connie Omari
I love it. I love it. I love it. Um, how would you?
Can you speak a little bit to like, black pastors kind of trying to you know, I don’t want to out black pastors. contribution to our community is very important. For sure. Yes. Praise the Lord.
LaTonya Tolan LCSW
Yeah. I know where you’re going. You have your back right? Quick. So, yes, where I think you’re going if I’m wrong, correct me, but where I’m going is sometimes it’s like that break between church and state. Right. And so exactly where I was going, yes. And so my answer always is to that is that God created pastors and therapists and there’s scripture in the Bible that backs up the importance of seeking wise counsel. Yes, it does. And so along with that, I think that if you are in a place where you think only your pastor is the only person that’s going to help you do you might as well not go to the doctor when you need surgery. Hello, not as well you know, I’m saying like dentists don’t go to the dentists
Dr. Connie Omari
don’t come to lawyer when you
LaTonya Tolan LCSW
don’t call the ambulance.
Dr. Connie Omari
ride to school today educator. Is all of that. Yeah,
LaTonya Tolan LCSW
God has a has a calling on different people. And, you know, you definitely can be Christian or whatever your religion is, have a relationship have spirituality, and go to a therapist. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I love that. Yeah.
Dr. Connie Omari
Where do you see black families struggling around this though, because I, my family is still struggling to understand that I’m a therapist. And they think that not knocking severe persistent mental illness, but they think that that’s the only population could possibly be working with. So
LaTonya Tolan LCSW
I think we still in the black community are still really, and I’m gonna use the word suffering from being connected to the fact that there’s such a stigma around mental health, like, I’m not crazy, and especially I think people probably from generations before us, oh, you know, Uncle so and so he was crazy. You know, whenever you don’t have to be crazy to go to a therapist, you just have to be a real person more real life going on salutely. Now, really, really changing your lens from, you know, worried about your ego and somebody that you crazy verses, I just really need an objective person that is trained and skilled, that I can speak to that can support me right now with this life that I’m having to deal with right now. Things happen, right. And so, really, really moving away from maybe the stories that people before was shared about going. I mean, it’s so taboo for generations above us, right? But just really, really going into the place of being open to take care of yourselves, or caring for anybody else and removing that stigma. Like there’s nothing wrong with going to therapy therapy.
Dr. Connie Omari
I love therapy. Because my I’m just like, last week or something, and what even me is my therapist, but I can feel I can tell when, you know,
LaTonya Tolan LCSW
I know I have my session coming up on Tuesday, and I’m like, already got my little list. So what I’m gonna do, okay,
Dr. Connie Omari
Um, what would you give someone or black clinic or black healer, right?
What would you give them?
What type of advice would you give them? If they’re stuck, because I will be honest, I have been guilty of being in going through personal issues. And, you know, just to be transparent and needing to also pay the bills. So not really being in a position where I can, like, close my practice or cut back on seeing clients. But if I’m honest, recognizing that the quality of what I could give would be better if I wasn’t so distracted. So how do you because a lot of us are not born with, you know, a trust fund? So it’s not like, I would take six months off to work. Right? How would you advise someone to just, you know, like, how would they go? If it was how would they like, find what you do? Or, or resources like what you have to to help them? They still have to work, but they’re struggling?
LaTonya Tolan LCSW
Yeah, yeah. So definitely, there’s so many resources out there now. And I think that we’re in a place and hopefully, we stay in this place where black people going to therapy is recognized, and it’s, you know, people can respect it now and, and are open to it much more because of everything that’s been happening right prior to COVID. And, you know, just all of the, our brothers and sisters that are constantly, senselessly killed, like we have so many issues in the black community, that if anybody needs therapy as us, you know, and so we definitely should not be ashamed to seek out supports. And so, yeah, definitely, you can check out my website at soul care for black clinicians.com. Also the same soul care for black clinicians handle on Instagram. You know, there’s also other resources, like when I refer people to other times that therapy for black girls for black men, you know, for there’s a lot of different resources out there now, you can even simply put into your Google Search black therapist near me now, yeah, and you’ll be able to find you know, what you’re looking for. Yeah, but definitely, to your point of really needed to care for yourself. and not being able to, and specifically, being a healer of other people, you know, my belief is that it’s mandatory to take care of yourself, not just for you, but for your clients, you know, you really need to bring yourself bring your best self to the therapy room, you know, which is why I think it’s really valuable for therapists who also have a therapist. Right. Priceless. Yeah, that’s being like I tell people all the time, leaving a therapist doesn’t magically mean I get to wave this wand and like, life doesn’t happen to me. I mean, I’ve had some horrible things happen, but I had to keep moving, you know? And so, with that, what do you do you seek support, and you keep moving one step and one foot in front of the other one one step at a time, you know, so but yeah, definitely seek support. Is there a bunch of resources out there? A lot of this are coming out? You know, there still is that stigma that I think that a lot of us are coming out in droves at this point in therapy, not to get therapy? We need it. We need more than anybody.
Dr. Connie Omari
Absolutely. Absolutely. Um, are there any myths about healing? And the black from black healing perspective that you would like to develop?
LaTonya Tolan LCSW
Yeah, definitely. One thing is that I’m a therapist, so I don’t mean no therapist.
Dr. Connie Omari
Yeah.
LaTonya Tolan LCSW
Yeah, you can theropods yourself, you know, and, and a lot of us therapists, we have really close friends that are therapists, I have a God, how many really close friends of mine. Talk to a therapist, that bar, you know, they still cannot be my therapist. It’s right. Right. Oh, and so I think that’s a big myth, like a lot on the therapy because I have a lot therapists in my circle, or I’m a therapist, I know what to do. Like, you can’t be your own therapist, like, yes, there are some skill sets that you have that you can utilize in your own life, we all do that. But at the same time, you know, you have to be able to be wise enough to recognize when there’s a time where you may need a touch up. And that’s okay. There’s nothing wrong with that.
Dr. Connie Omari
You know, can you speak a little bit if you don’t mind to the importance of also taking off your therapy? Especially?
LaTonya Tolan LCSW
Yeah. That sounds good. Yeah, definitely. I know, I have some friends of mine that are not therapists. And it’s so interesting, because they’ll always joke around and say, Oh, I had to call you today for my for my therapy. Right? Right. Right, right. Because I know that they’re just joking, right? But it’s like, no, my head is all the way off, you know, we have to have those boundaries. And not even just the boundaries with our set with our clients in session. But boundaries in our personal lives. I can’t be what I call, quote, unquote, on all day long, I can’t, you know, so I think that really taking that therapy hat off and doing what feels good to you being mindful of what is going to be good care for your own soul, like, and an example of that. Is that because of what I do, and the stories that I’ve heard for almost 20 years, at this point, there are some movies I just want you to watch, because it’s too much work for me. Oh, yes, yes. Yes, is that there’s just too thick, and I don’t want to do with that, you know, and so that’s a way that I definitely take my hat off. Like I like to really, really be fully focused and, and having a good time laughing and feeling good. And if I’m watching a movie that feels like what I just clocked in or out to do. That’s that, that’ll work for me. You know, so that’s a way to take your hat off. It’s just kind of being mindful about what you allow in your space outside of your therapy time.
Dr. Connie Omari
Yeah, I love it. I love it. I love it.
Any resources or tools? Well, you told us about the website?
Ah, how do we know? How do we know because
I think there’s a certain level of is the word desensitization that we encounter. For me, I’m a trauma therapist. So my level for taking in just really traumatic information. Same here. Yeah, higher than the average person.
LaTonya Tolan LCSW
But no, I’m sorry. Go ahead.
Dr. Connie Omari
Well, you probably we connected. So you probably you know, at what point do we know when we needed to get some help?
LaTonya Tolan LCSW
Yeah, I think that I answered this in two different ways. Right. So on one level, same with you, trauma therapists. I worked with kids for 11 years prior to me only working with clinicians. And you can imagine, you know, and the stories that I’ve heard and I only say you can imagine because you To our trauma therapists because, or layman’s or for people that might be therapists that are not dealing with trauma, they can’t imagine some of this. Right, right. So, um, I think that when you start to feel because I know there was a time some years ago when I felt like really burned out, you know, I started to feel really jaded, I started to feel like, okay, I care about this kid, but like, okay, let’s, what are we doing about this? You know, and kind of really feeling like, Okay, how is this? These sessions are now more impacting me. And it should be the reverse right first, right, right. Yeah. So that’s really a telltale sign. Right? Another thing on the other side of that, it makes me think about this movie, there was this movie, and I won’t call the name of the movie out, but I will say there was a movie years ago. I’m gonna say how long ago this was this was back when you.
LaTonya Tolan LCSW
But I love it. You know where I was going? Yeah. My Buster could see your DVDs in the mail.
Dr. Connie Omari
I remember that.
LaTonya Tolan LCSW
I’ll be embarrassed. So I had I picked this movie. And the description talks about like, this bond, this bond this little boy had with his father and it was just like, all like it sounded really like lovey dovey like a dad point, his dad. And again, I was here for that. Because working as a trauma therapist with kids, that wasn’t what I was seeing in my everyday life. You might Ciao, I’m excited get this movie, get the movie it comes pop it in. And I really tried caregiving about 4045 minutes, and I was like, I’m out of here. So in the first 4045 minutes, I’m gonna tell you what you see. Now to a regular person, they’re not going to see the things we see we have a different lens, this clinical lands is on a whole nother level. Right? So the first 4045 minutes I’m seeing the boy’s mom and dad constantly arguing and fighting in front of the boy. I see the mom walk out and leave the boy with his dad. She never ever comes back. She then every now and then we’ll come back to only sleep with the dad but not the kid and moves on and marry somebody else has a new kids don’t like seeing the first kid. All I’m saying is repeated trauma. Oh, yeah. So how you know like, Okay, that would tell for me like, yeah, I have to create really, I’m really mindful about what I’m watching. Even though it did not say that this was a traumatic movie.
Dr. Connie Omari
It was something totally different for you. Yes, yes. Well, so can we turn that off?
LaTonya Tolan LCSW
You know, I think that we can I think that there are times that I’m mindful about kind of where I am emotionally, like, there are times that I might watch something. And I’m like, oh, charm, I’m okay to watch it. But this is a lot, you know. And then there are other times where I could watch something and it’s no problem. You know, it’s kind of hands on work where people so it depends on what’s happening. Just like I don’t know, for example, I don’t know if you’ve seen on Instagram there was this, this thing kind of floating around about this movie coming out called Karen. And have you seen that? Have I seen a little trailer for it? It’s the movies not sure. But like there’s a trailer for it.
Dr. Connie Omari
And so basically it’s about Karen is here and Karen McCarran. Okay.
LaTonya Tolan LCSW
So the killer was one of my boys send it to me and I wash it. And I said, you know, I watched the trailer, right? And I said, actually, this looks like it would be really good. But right now where I am, I can’t watch the damn Karen movie. You know? Right, right. It’s really being mindful about where you are emotionally and kind of what you choose to take in because all of it is your choice, you know, and also just being mindful about I think one thing for for healers, and this is probably more so toward clinicians, because we probably have more flexibility in how we schedule people other than doctors, nurses. Right. Right. Right. Clinicians, coaches, we have more flexibility, but also be mindful about what clients you schedule when you know, it’s correct, right? being very mindful about that. Like I know that I’m there was a time before I fully worked for myself. I had a nine to five for many years. And so I would work until 10 o’clock. So my last time was at nine. And so I was really mindful about and I’ll tell my pm y’all so I was done at 10 Right. I want to start I would start because I had a full time job the end it I would, I would probably get to my private practice office, about 530. I will start at six six Tanis when I saw clients, you know. And so I will be really mindful about who my eight o’clock clients were. Right? Right, right, right. Right, right. And so just really be in mind, even now that I don’t see people that late at all, I’m still mindful about who is my last person going on, right. So that’s another way to kind of be knowledgeable about kind of where you are, and how you can really support yourself and your work.
Dr. Connie Omari
I’m interested in getting your feedback on this because you’re bringing up something that I had not thought about. And that is how we spend our time outside of the therapeutic center or the healing space, when I’m going to bring up a little controversial, so But if, if I deal with it, I’m sure you do, or you have clients who and certainly our listeners do. And so I wanted to talk about pornography, only because I have my I have my position on it. And it’s probably not a popular one. I’m not a fan, I try not to judge it, I’ll have a heaven or hell to send it to. But one of my main reasons why other than some of the ways it impacts relationships and things like that, but is a lot of that is done in the context of trauma. times, you know, a lot of sex trafficking is involved. A lot of just, you know, people, women not feeling very, you know, good about themselves. And this could be my bias. So, you know, I’m open to correction if I’m wrong, but I’ve noticed in my clinical treatment, when those topics come up, I have a, again, a biased perspective against it. And sometimes I don’t know if I’m being helpful or hurtful, but it comes from me, working in trauma. And I’m hearing about women all the time speaking about how they feel sexually exploited, how they feel, you know, all these different things. Right. And so I feel an obligation almost to them, to make sure that their voices are heard. Does that make sense?
LaTonya Tolan LCSW
It does. And at the same time, I want to give you another perspective, please. So right, so we know, as clinicians that our clients have the right to self determination, right? Well, I can’t debate anything you said, because it’s all facts that a lot of that is rooted in trauma, right? At the same time, the other perspective I want you to consider is that also because of trauma, there’s another side to trauma, the other side to trauma. So let me let me let me put both of them out there. So the side of trauma that you’re speaking out about specifically, is they’ve been sex trafficked, or maybe they’re being abused and caught up in this life and that kind of thing, or are navigated into this life beyond, you know, without their consent, blah, blah, blah. Other signs of trauma is because, you know, people have also been traumatized could be had been abused, been sex, trafficked, all of that, but now they’re choosing to go to, because now it’s my choice. I choose what I do with my body. So it’s an empowering tool, empowering choice. Yes. So there’s that other side of it, too, you know. And so I think that also you have that, then, you know, I guess kind of on the same level, that’s where you were in terms of trauma. You know, some women and even men can be very disconnected from their bodies. And they just see like, this is just the way I make money. And that still can be a trauma response with this. Or it could be a combination of things. So that’s the point of why like, I feel like let me give you another perspective, because you know, it can it can really be a life saver for some piece on people.
Dr. Connie Omari
I’m glad you I’m actually glad See, that’s why I like these dialogues because you can you can agree to disagree, but you can also get another perspective because you’re you just encouraged me. Do you remember Jamie Winslow from family? I don’t know if you remember her Chatot story on the show.
LaTonya Tolan LCSW
I remember she started doing porn, but I don’t remember.
Dr. Connie Omari
So basically, she was kicked off of the show. Of course I haven’t interviewed her directly but you know. So they basically told her to go up the stairs. Okay, she never came back down. So they never really gave her an explanation they never put her back to the credit for whatever reason, you know, people show me as a showbiz you know, maybe she wasn’t the character or whatever, you know, so So you’re right she goes into porn. So up until you gave that perspective that you just gave I was looking at it more thing you know, she’s defeated. She’s depressed, you know, is not feeling confident. So she does this but what I’m just hearing you say the least she was back on TV. I may not know che but maybe she needed that validation because some people were looking at that and enjoy that and enjoyed her for that moment.
LaTonya Tolan LCSW
You know, and that’s a way that I’m choosing my destiny. Yes.
Dr. Connie Omari
She said y’all gonna look at me on TV, you know/
LaTonya Tolan
Exactly your I choose where I go and where I don’t.
Dr. Connie Omari
I love that. I love that. I love that and and to be honest, now you just push them even further because even as as helpers, right? We are healers we still have behaviors that are not good. I know I eat too many cookies in potato chips, you know, and I mean
LaTonya Tolan LCSW
Right. Okay, right. I love my chocolate. Okay.
Dr. Connie Omari
Yeah. I don’t know why I started with cookies, my weaknesses chips. Like, if I can eat a bag of chips every day. Like, every day. I I could eat it all day. Really?
LaTonya Tolan LCSW
Oh, wow. I’m gonna reverse a unit salty on the top because they bring my brownie. Yeah,
Dr. Connie Omari
yes. Yes. So I think it’s good that people hear this because even from us, when we are in the position to encourage these positive, you know, behaviors and stuff, we still have our, our weaknesses, we’re still human, you’re still
LaTonya Tolan LCSW
human. He doesn’t, you know, obviously freeze and obviously experience, you know, doesn’t mean that I’m still not human doesn’t mean that my life does not continue to rotate outside of the of the walls of me being a therapist. Absolutely.
Dr. Connie Omari
Absolutely. Um, the time you are there any myths that you’d like to debunk about healing? In the black community? Yeah,
LaTonya Tolan LCSW
I think, you know, kind of along that same line, it’s like, just because I’m a therapist doesn’t mean that I can be my own therapist. You know, and just as you know, yes, I’m black and I’m a strong black woman doesn’t mean that I might need some support. I mean, being needing support doesn’t mean that you’re weak. Honestly, I think it makes it that much more strong, because you’re seeking support, you know. And I think another another myth is that we have to put up with a lot of crap in order to prove how strong or how down we are. And that’s not true. It’s not. No, that’s not true. Either. We can set limits, have boundaries, and be strong and balanced because we respect ourselves and love ourselves. There’s nothing wrong with that.
Dr. Connie Omari
I love that. I love it. All right. So um, well, now we’re gonna transition real quickly for a portion of the show is called What’s good. It’s nice and simple. I give you a hypothetical situation and you give me feedback for what? How that person can treat it. You ready? Okay. Sure. Meet Susan. Susan is a caregiver without credentials. Susan has two elderly parents in their 80s, at which point she took care of both of them until they died. And in her effort to compromise, you know, to take care of her elderly parents, she could not go to school, she could not get a professional job or any of that because the demands of her parents were so intense. Once her parents died, she’s decided that she wants to reenter the education force, but she really is dealing with a lot of resentment and frustration, but her passion keeps leading her to the healing field. How would you recommend she get started?
LaTonya Tolan LCSW
So first, I think that it’s important that she realizes that although your passion may be leading into the healing field, it would be very unethical and inappropriate for you to start to try to heal other people and you yourself have not worked on your own healing. It’s good boy. All right. So first, I would definitely say that she needs to go to therapy doesn’t mean that she can’t start her schooling. I definitely think she’s just started schooling started getting educated. Right? And but I think that therapy should definitely be first on the list because it sounds like for the longest time, her parents were the priority and now because they’ve passed on they’ve gone to glory, she has the capacity now where she can be the priority. And that doesn’t just mean her education but it means really caring for herself like I’m sure that you know she also has some grief and loss she has to deal with and you know, some probably some boundary issues because she’s been a caregiver for so long as she doesn’t she hasn’t been able to take care of herself and put herself as a first priority in her life. Therapy and get your education girl there we go.
Dr. Connie Omari
I love it. I love it. I love it. Well this little Tanya How can our healers find you so that they can either work with you or get listed on your you know, with with your practice information, how can they get in touch?
LaTonya Tolan LCSW
So yes, my website so careful black clinicians.com is a bad As far as to go to be connected with me, my IG handle is the same name. So I will care for black clinicians. And yeah, definitely reach out and get connected. You can you can see the services that we offer and we would love to have you so reach out.
Dr. Connie Omari
Awesome. Thank you so much. Is there any final thoughts you want to leave with our listeners?
LaTonya Tolan LCSW
You know what, just black people heal yourselves.
Dr. Connie Omari
Here we go. I love it. I love it. Thank you so much for coming today. I really appreciate your words of wisdom.
LaTonya Tolan LCSW
Thank you. Thanks for having me,
Dr. Connie Omari
Horace. Take care.
LaTonya Tolan LCSW
Okay, you too. Bye.