Hey, hey, hey, and welcome to the black Marriage and Family Therapist matters podcast where we connect black families to black therapists. Today, our special guest is named Andre Harris. Hi, Andre.
Andre Marcel Harris
Hi, good.
Dr. Connie Omari
How are you?
Andre Marcel Harris
I’m good.
Dr. Connie Omari
Now. Andre Marcel Harris is a Ronald E. McNair Scholar as a recent graduate holding a Bachelors of Social Work from Fayetteville State University right here in Fayetteville, North Carolina. As a Ronald E McNair Scholar, Andre aspires to pursue a doctorate in social work and or sociology. Andres professional goals include him working to influence health equity for sickle cell patients, providing quality resources to address disparities in black man’s health, and providing psychosocial support and resources for male sexual assault survivors. Andre, the founder of the Facebook group, black men and social work, which seeks to provide a safe space for commodity, a black bid to share their experiences as black male social workers, Andres research interests focus on social determinants of health, black man’s health, and black male sexual assault survivors. That’s awesome. Andre.
Andre Marcel Harris
God bless you.
Dr. Connie Omari
You are very welcome in bless you for this work that you’re doing. And for your commitment to this cause. Can you tell us a little bit more about the black men and social work Facebook group?
Andre Marcel Harris
Yes. So in the fall of 2017, I noticed that there were was not a space that I could find where I could fellowship or share with other black men who were in the social work profession, either students or grad students or researchers, clinicians, I couldn’t find a space for anybody like us. And it kind of I saw another group called Black women in social, okay, and when I saw that I was like, not to kind of bite off. But I really think that this would be a good idea to bleed over. Because most people know that the profession of social work is highly dominated by when especially white. And so those that are black males do find it a little challenging. In some instances. As a student, I saw that the black men even though I went to HBCU that they were kind of complaining that they felt like they weren’t represented and then also in other arenas that I was in when I would go to social work conferences. A lot of times I would be added the only male and or the own. Wow, wow. So that kind of motivated me to just create a Facebook group and honestly, when I created it, I think I created it with a course me and then I think I remember like three or four people that I had that were Facebook friends that I invited to the group. And for a couple of months it laid dormant, we really, there was really no activity. But I will credit and would like to credit a colleague of mine that I reconnected with who ended up getting his MSW. And he joined the group. And he invited people and really challenged them to invite more members. It’d be Dan to be a robust group. And so we went from like four or five members in the fall of 2017, to almost 950. Gracious, wow, February 2020. So I say that it’s happening is awesome.
Dr. Connie Omari
Oh, it’s amazing. That’s amazing,
Andre Marcel Harris
I think is also awesome, because we’ve had testimonials already, that members of our group have been able to use the group to get fellowships, internships, scholarships, jobs, there are three guys that I know now, specifically, who have either accepted a new position as a professor oras a clinician at an agency. And they credit that group for allowing them to make those calls to get those employment opportunities. So that is really what I want to see and hear to be the fruit of the Oh my god. So I’m very excited.
Dr. Connie Omari
I love that. I love that. And we spoke briefly about it, you’re not a clinician yet. But you do great advocacy work, and we’re going to talk about that. But I love the fact that you create eight resources for these clinicians. And I want our audience to hear in and know that it’s available, like there are at least 937 black males, social workers there. Absolutely. And as you can see, you don’t necessarily need to have a license in this work to be offering great resources and skills for the black community. So on behalf of the black men and black women who will benefit from this. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. All right. So you also work with the sickle cell population. And I like to kind of speak, ask invite you to talk a little bit about that. Because, as we know, sickle cell is a very big health concern in the black community. Absolutely.
Andre Marcel Harris
Yes. Yeah. So I don’t think I actually shared this with you. First and foremost, I live from Oh, wow. So of course, that really would motivates me, but also, and they’re motivated, because not only do I live with it, but I inspired by my fellow, I guess you could say colleagues who also deal with it better when, and I just really want to see a difference. And I know that sounds like a cliche, oh, but there’s so much discrimination that goes on in the health care arena when it comes around sickle cell disease. And the majority of it is racially charged and racially motivated. Wow. So the last maybe, I would say five to six years, I have been really working as a sickle cell advocate. My purpose as an advocate is I had as a liaison as an educator, as an advocate, of course, to different organizations. I work with a lot of nonprofit organizations, I work with a lot of healthcare, a federal health care agencies. Wow, I consult with a lot of pharmaceutical companies, whether it is to provide education, or resources, or even talk about the lived experience of a patient with sickle cell disease. And so that Dr. Drive is what kind of inspired me also to pursue being a Ronald McNair Scholar, which is a program that allows people with who are minorities, people from lower socio economic statuses to get the resources and knowledge to be a viable doctoral candidate. And so Oh, wow, we have speaking of speaking over my life. Yes.
Dr. Connie Omari
Climate Yes.
Andre Marcel Harris
Ah, D Yes, when I get into a Ph. D program, my research which I’ve done already, but you know, to do on a wider scale is to really find ways to reduce the discrimination that sickle cell patients encounter in the healthcare industry, try to increase health equity. And not only that, but to make sure that the public knowledge and awareness of the diseases heighten and increase because it is my philosophy that discrimination and bias can be eliminated or it This greatly reduced if you provide the proper and appropriate education. So people, you know, you perpetuate ignorance when you’re not educating? Absolutely. So, unfortunately, the general public are just simply uneducated. And, and I said this and I think you, you said you watch the last pocket, I said this there is that we can’t really always be mad that people don’t know, because we haven’t really given them the edge. Absolutely. And once you’ve heard and what’s been a hearer of whatever it is, then you’re responsible for that word, or that that piece of knowledge that you’ve received. And so, to me, it is my duty, my charge my responsibility to educate as many people that I can. And after I give them the knowledge, they no longer can have any excuse that they know that they, they weren’t aware, I educated you, it was your responsibility, once I gave you that piece of knowledge. And so that’s what’s really motivated me to go into doctoral studies, I really want to do a lot of social science research to really illuminate the social impact of sickle cell disease. This is kind of also answering your question and get into the point is that there’s a lot of research trying to find a cure, which is very nice, right? But not many people understand the social impact of WoW, not many people understand that each socio economic burden up. And that’s the whole dissertation. And I bet I bet. That’s basically what motivates me to do it.
Dr. Connie Omari
Wow, thank you so much, Andre, for that, and it is, yeah. And it’s true, like a lot, a lot of us think when I started this work, when I was a bachelor’s, even graduate, I really thought exclusively about the clinical side, I didn’t really think about how important it is to have that research backing to support what we do as a clinician and now 1250, how long have you done is like 15 years into this industry, I realized that if you’re not based in research, you might as well not be doing any type of clinical work. Yes,
Andre Marcel Harris
And I have, like I said, I’m a recent graduate, but I have a mentor in social work. And from my school of social work, who’s actually running for political Oh,
Dr. Connie Omari
That’s interesting.
Andre Marcel Harris
And she taught my macro course. And she was one of the ones that was a big influence her over me to really be comfortable in my choice of being a macro social worker being an advocate, because I feel like in the social work, education, that it’s almost pressured, or it’s almost demanded or expected of us that we do be clinicians or that we do be micro in some sort of way.
Dr. Connie Omari
Can you clarify the differences between micro and macro? Because, honestly, I don’t know.
Andre Marcel Harris
I can’t. So in this is how I learned it, there are three different I guess, you could say practice levels of social work, micro, macro, and mezzo and so micro is what we call direct practice. Okay. So those are your clinicians, you know, those are the ones that have office hours that are in private practice, you know, that do therapy that provide any type of direct services, maybe you may be a social worker in some hospital in VA. Those are direct clinician, direct practice clinicians. And then macro are normally people who are heavily involved in research, policy advocacy, working with communities, organizations, a more systemic view of practice. We’re not working with individuals and families, but we’re working with the systems that impact the individuals. And that was going to bring me to my next point is that when I was in my undergraduate program, we were drilled heavily in every class, that policy informs practice. Yeah. Which basically kind of tells us that micro or direct practitioners are important. However, everyone can’t live in that space. Because if we don’t have anyone that’s influencing the policies, no one will be able to influence the practice.
Dr. Connie Omari
Absolutely. Absolutely.
Andre Marcel Harris
There’s a practice that’s disenfranchising your population or your client base. Then the person that works in the macro setting is the one who would really be that go to to help fix it. And then mezzo is kind of a fusion between the two, someone who kind of is the bridge that works equally Eat between the macro and micro. Okay. Okay. So that’s how I learned it is. So when I say macro, right, I talk about me being an advocate, me being someone who was very much interested in research. Now, we were actually taught that micro practitioners that should be involved with research as well. But you know, heavily involved in research about policy, administration and organizations, those are the things that drive me. Because I understand that without those policies, those at the ground level, or at the street level, so, um, so to speak with that have a way to do that. There were no policies governing your price.
Dr. Connie Omari
You wouldn’t be able to be able to, well, I guess I’m somewhere in the mezzo department, because I am a clinician, but also, you know, avenues like this podcasts and things like that. I’m trying to do more advocacy work. So that’s awesome. So thank you for educating me on what I’m doing. And I want to just piggyback off of something that you said, which is, you know, from the health disparities section, which I honestly, obviously, I know, racism exists, but because I don’t personally have a lot of health issues, I definitely don’t have sickle cell, I hadn’t thought about it as much in the hell in the healthcare sector, although, having had two babies, I have also observed some of that, but I’m just thinking, Yeah, but I’m thinking about a person with sickle cell, like you mentioned, you know, potentially financial barriers and things like that, they might not ever be able to access a therapist, because their basic concern is survival. You know, they gotta make sure they can get well first before they can even tap into the micro work. So your macro work, which is making resources available, advocating for them, letting them know that they have support creating things like this Facebook group, so that, you know, they could come together. That’s, that’s what they, because they won’t even be able to utilize, you know, therapist at that point. Is that pretty?
Andre Marcel Harris
Yeah. Yes. So to go off of what you just said, mental health. As I said, Of course, I’ve been living with sickle cell my whole life. But the last couple of years being almost a full time advocate and traveling throughout the cold. Wow. I mean, I’ve even presented some of my research around the world is that patients and providers, and other people that are stakeholders in the sickle cell disease, have acknowledged that mental health is something that is not addressed properly in the sickle cell. Community. In there are a lot of people like you said that, at this point, they’re just trying to survive day by day. And when they may want to see a therapist, they may want to see someone to help them with their mental health issues. But first of all, they can’t even afford to get to their doctor’s appointments, let alone to see a therapist. So these are things and like I said, with my group, black men in social work, of course, we’re catering to men who are social workers. But because I created the group, I can kind of be a little biased. And I always share with the group that it is my desire that however it happens is that the men in the group find a way to be involved in their sickle cell. Yes, wherever they are, right? Because we need more people to be educated, that are clinicians, that will be able to be able to provide culturally appropriate services to sickle cell patients. And also to say this, a lot of people still think that sickle cell is a black only disease. And so if they’re still thinking, that’s, again, what kind of perpetuates the healthcare discrimination. And so if we can get more people to understand that sickle cell disease impacts disproportionately more people that are African American, but it does not exclude people who are not. You will kind of understand that there are a plethora of issues that people with sickle cell face. On the flip side of that coin. I have friends that are white or Hispanic. And I’ve actually met a couple of Asians that have sickle cell disease, and they, their mental health is impacted. They say they have PTSD. They say they have certain mental health issues because when they present to an emergency room because they’re not black, and they say they’re having a sickle cell crisis, they’re basically laughing and they’re basically not believed and they have to be retested and humiliate. They have their health outcomes are significantly tanked in the toilet. You know, every minute that they have to bear. Someone said, Well, we’re going to test you again, because this isn’t right. When that that person should have known, just because they’re not black, that doesn’t mean they don’t have sickle cell. So the mental health is a big
Dr. Connie Omari
Can I ask a follow up question to that? So they don’t. So they don’t have like any black female?
Andre Marcel Harris
So, no, there’s no need to apologize because I love when people ask questions, instead of assuming. And perpetuating like I said, these issues. So sickle cell disease was something that we learned to be basically, without trying to get into a genetic or biological lecture, is that basically was our body’s response. Remember, we learned about natural selection, and Darwin and all in biology in school. So our body through natural selection was like, hey, malaria is is killing everybody. We need to find a way to protect us from malaria. So sickle cell became a mutation to protect? Well, let me say the sickle cell trait was a response to protect those people who lived in Sub Saharan Africa. Yes, yes. But not only Africa, but if you think about Africa, sits at the south of Europe. There are people who are Greek, there are people who are from all Mediterranean backgrounds, people from Spain, people from, you know, all that region that have sickle cell in it. And also, when we talk about African folks don’t think about Morocco, and it’s in Africa. Yeah, it’s not just people from Nigeria. Right, right. Right, right. Right. You know, we think, and I’m not saying this to be funny at all, but when we think Africa with the black, right?
Dr. Connie Omari
right, but no, you’re African that aren’t black.
Andre Marcel Harris
And that’s another thing too, that people think because they are non black, that they had to have sex with somebody that was black, which is probably true in some cases. But again, if you are from Greece, or if you’re from any other country, and it has just been inherited through your bloodline, it doesn’t matter where it came from, you could have developed that trait to protect you from malaria, and not have been a black person. So I know that in here in North Carolina, there’s a family, if I’m not mistaken, the father’s Irish and the mother’s English, or I may have inverted but they are white, whiter. They’re not. They’re not black, and they’re children. They have multiple children with sickle cell disease. So that another thing that goes back to educating so that people will be aware, because a lot of the disparities that we see in healthcare is because that we don’t get enough federal dollars for research. We don’t get enough federal dollars for raising awareness, advocacy. There are other genetic disorders, they have less than half of the population that we do here in America, they get more funding than we do. Wow. And why is that and I hate to play the race car. But these genetic disorders are predominantly white or non color. I hate to say that we’re not people that write, you know, the majority of the population. And people hate when I bring that up. But it’s just simply this is Acrobat this up by empirical research.
Dr. Connie Omari
Yes. Read. That’s why research is so important.
Andre Marcel Harris
That’s why I’m very passionate about doing this type of research, especially when it comes to sickle cell disease. Because a lot of people think I’m just talking about things. I think I know where I so I don’t make any claims unless I read an article. And I could, you know, I don’t I don’t I don’t have time to be, you know, saying well, I’m in, right, right. Right. I read and this journal has, you know, you know, it’s peer reading, so I know that I can, you know, rely on this information and you know, God bless because Right, right.
Dr. Connie Omari
Means well,you don’t know what he’s talking about.
Andre Marcel Harris
That’s that’s really, what what drives me and again, another thing back to your question to mental health. Again, going back to I’m a big history world. I call myself an amateur history buff too, especially if we understand the historical and justices that black People have experience in this country, the 400 years that we’ve been here, then we will understand what sickle cell patients go through. And again, like I said, it’s not a black disease, but we are the majority of the population here in America. So that being said, a lot of people with sickle cell disease live at or below the federal poverty level. A lot of people with sickle cell disease are victims of the racial wealth gap. A lot of people with sickle cell disease don’t have quality health care. They don’t Wow says no. And so that’s why we see a lot of terrible numbers, we see a lot of terrible statistics. And that’s why one of the biggest customers for me when you talk about sickle cell patients, or any people of color, in the healthcare industry is non compliant for any B because they people throw those words around. And they have derogative connotations. But people don’t want to understand why that patient is. And people don’t want to understand why that patient is not coming in again, this is a life that I don’t know about, or that I read about this isn’t like, wow, patients like me, my hematologist, Mexico specialist is our way I don’t have. So if I don’t have a car, how do I get to a mind, oh, my goodness. So if I missed my appointment, and then the next time I come or someone calls me and says, you know, you’re not compliant, or you’re in adhering, and we’re going to discharge you from our care, and you’re chiding me, but you’re not trying to hey, I realized that you missed, is there a way that we can help you, like, provide me resources, to be able to figure out how I can, you know, jump over those hurdles in my life to make sure that I am a patient. So until the healthcare arena understands this population really doesn’t have the resources that other populations have, because, believe it or not, is, you know, racially motivated, like, I am a descendant. And I am a victim of the racial wealth. My ancestors didn’t have the generation that I could use to help, you know, be fun, my, my ancestors didn’t have the access to, you know, any of these resources that will be able to help me down the line. My mother, my grandmother, my grandma, they didn’t have these, you know, this, this resource. So, you know, we see people have white, you know, there, I read an article recently where this guy his grandmother got or somebody died, and left him a $2 million. But he didn’t even But the kicker was is like he didn’t know. Wow, like, she was like a long ball. Most black folks. Right. Even though and then I think also twisted the story was he I guess, was not rich. So he just came into our night.
Dr. Connie Omari
We don’t know, we don’t. you know, a long loss.
Andre Marcel Harris
I was, you know, a sharecropper. And her mama was, Where are we getting this way. But people don’t understand how I talked about two of those subjects. They they all correlate, if I can’t afford health care, then my health care is not going to be as good as the other person who can’t afford their health. Wow. And especially when we talk about the political campaigns. That’s another reason why I’m passionate about macro. Policy organizing is about voting. We have another saying that voting is work. And I have to vote. It’s a burden of mine that I made sure that I research candidates and vote for the right people because health care should to meet. And this is my opinion. And I’m not backing in right. Right to threaten anybody’s. But to me, no one in this country should be denied health care because they’re poor. And no one in this country should be denied health care because they don’t have the education or the resources to meet everybody you know, and I’m a proponent excuse me of Medicare for all, I think everybody should have the right to afford and to have access to health care to me, because I have sickle cell disease. Actually, I have the same quality. Then somebody who’s a millionaire that has kids, that’s getting top no teaching So this is really why I’m very excited and passionate, as recent graduates start getting out in the streets as my mentors, and to really educate people and to challenge them on why they’ve been so Yeah.
Dr. Connie Omari
Gosh, you just said so much like, literally. I mean, it was,
Andre Marcel Harris
I know, you had kept listening.
Dr. Connie Omari
I want to keep listening. And I wanted to keep going, I just have some follow up questions I want to, well, actually just a thought that’s kind of like deeming in on me to just process and what I’m hearing you say, is that in addition to black people being poor, in addition to them having negative stereotypes about their behavior and stuff, when you tackle a healthcare issue on top of that, that just they got to deal with all that other stuff. But then their health is impacted as well, because I can just hear you, you know, black men in general, are accused of not being compliant, not listening to authority and not following the rules. And then, you know, deployment, like, you know what I mean? So, so yeah, so your hands are full? Because not only are you charged with letting black comforting black people and educating them and letting them know, this is what’s going on. But you’re still navigating a white world of health care that, yeah, you know, we still have to be cautious of what we say and offended, we need the resources. So you can’t be like, you know, you’re racist, these black people, they can’t afford it, you know, get it together. Right. You, you know, yeah.
Andre Marcel Harris
Yeah. And that’s a great point as well, is that being engaged and effective advocate, you have to learn how to pick the right battles. And so, like I said, earlier, I have been afforded the opportunity to go to different states capitals, of course, I’ve been to the North Carolina Capitol, the legislators, and I’ve sat on boards with and through the state. And so I say that not to make myself sound
Dr. Connie Omari
Are you are you are or not.
Andre Marcel Harris
But I say that to say that I have been in the company of great people and powerful people. And what I have seen is that I’ve seen people have that once in a lifetime, sometimes opportunity to be in the presence of kings. And then even and I’m not saying that their angst is not true, or you know, what they’re going through is not real. But you have to learn how to dance because if Donald Trump.
Dr. Connie Omari
Yeah, you know, right.
Andre Marcel Harris
Some people will be like, oh, you know, I’m going, and I ain’t got to try to buy that because I’m in debt, right? Yes, you have to learn how to take advantage of anger, channeling to be able to appropriately like I have been on certain governors councils I have, I just got invited to be on a federal work. And I have met people that are directly under the Surgeon General, I’ve met people that are in certain influence power, they have power in the healthcare arena in this in this government. And if I just went in there thrice, and the first of which, right, what do you know about it?
Dr. Connie Omari
Nobody’s listening to you. Nobody wants to be with you.
Andre Marcel Harris
And you haven’t you haven’t done anything or you have that. And again, your whatever happened to you, whatever their policy that they created did to you. I’m not saying it wasn’t true. But you have to find a way to be in their presence, and take advantage of it as much as possible to get the change. No, gosh. So I think that is very important. And that’s what I do. Like I said, I have been to the North Carolina legislators and legislators, and there were policies that we questioned them about. I’m not only about sickle cell, but other healthcare issues. And half of those like, Oh, we didn’t read it. We just wanted to go this and so we find it.
Dr. Connie Omari
Wow, wow.
Andre Marcel Harris
Congress in Washington, DC, I’ve been to other and I get the same response. But you don’t hear that when you talk about HIV AIDS. You don’t hear that we when they talk about cancer, because again, that’s something that affects the right there people. And again, I’m not saying that white people don’t know you.
Dr. Connie Omari
Yeah, we get your point, we get the point. But it’s just what should it you know, more of us have it right, less so written to the people who make the decisions, right.
Andre Marcel Harris
And it’s more relatable because I’m sure a legislator or whoever, that’s an office, they have a cousin who has exactly what HIV, but they may, they may not have
Dr. Connie Omari
met everyone with sickle cells.
Andre Marcel Harris
A lot of them say you’re the first person that I’ve met. So for me to know what I’m saying. So we have to really have to pick our battles, know how to fight them wisely to get the best result. And so that’s why I’m just like you said, even with black men, and again, black men in social work with the umbrella of this conversation, but black men in general, there’s a lot of things that we go through, and being a black man.
Dr. Connie Omari
Oh, my goodness.
Andre Marcel Harris
Yeah. And then I also wanted to mention, for my work with men who have been sexual assault survivors, because I think even in policy and advocacy in that space, a lot of the policies that are written about any type of sexual misconduct, rape, assault, molestation, anything, from a policy standpoint, really is written with a female. And so when we when we think about men, and again, this is empirical research. That has been, not what I say but what is six men have been a victim of sexual assault, sexual abuse. So that means to me that there are a lot more men that have been victims that have that are those that actually, absolutely, but why is that when, culturally speaking, especially in the black culture, when a God talks about oh, man, she she raped me or she molested me or I was abused by him or her people count? Well, if it was a woman who was the, the one that
Dr. Connie Omari
I know, you got it. When a woman is victimized, she is treated differently.
Andre Marcel Harris
I got totally Tongue Tied woman’s demise, there’s a blanket of support that surrounds her. But when a man comes up and speaks out, well, what there’s nothing for them to fall back on. And a lot of them are are made fun of because I know me personally, who said, Well, I told my friends and I said, Well, you should enjoy it. If your babysitter, right? You shouldn’t like, right?
Dr. Connie Omari
We don’t we don’t say that. A woman? Yes. Yes.
Andre Marcel Harris
I mean, if we did, we will be black. Right? Right. Because that’s just not something. So why is it man get victimized. And again, I understand that there we have issues of hegemony and patriarchy. In this country, I understand that men have not been the greatest women. But that doesn’t negate the fact that men are disproportionately.
Dr. Connie Omari
That just makes me want to say I’m saying like they no one really cares. I have been Advocacy Days on this topic. Not as much as I have for sickle cell. But when we talk about it, folks are like, okay, so what and Brian who, like they write, they don’t don’t know what to do me.
Andre Marcel Harris
I know men that go to church, I know many schools in the community that have told me in private, hey, I’m glad that she spoke out because you gave me the courage to tell my wife that I was molested by my pastor, where I was molested, molested by mine.
Dr. Connie Omari
And I never told him and you know what? You know what’s interesting about what you’re saying? We’re both passionate. So forgive me if I cut you off, because I feel like I need to know your mind. You’re finding what it was. And what you’re talking about is the what I think we miss in the black community, which is and I’ve said this on other podcasts, we are constantly warning our children to be careful of strangers, the 10% of people who actually rate kids that they don’t know, but the 90% of who is getting access to girls and boys. Are these people that you trust. You trust. Yes, yeah. And people we just, you know, we really I’m gonna say this every chance I get on every different episode of this podcast on these podcasts. Because it’s true. I mean, we really need to be focusing on those people who are closest to us, who we trust it the care with our children as as people who molest children in rape them.
Andre Marcel Harris
Yeah, I totally agree. And then even not even the children there have been men, and I think this is the biggest issue is, you know how women, you know, some women were molested or raped as children. They were raped or molested or abused as adults, is that there have been men who had been taken advantage of as adults. And they definitely don’t want to tell anybody because you’re supposed Oh, yes, yes. And how can you let somebody take advantage of you sexually? When I know I know, people have, you know, been taken advantage of by a woman, rather got them or survived something. Or they woke up. And it just somebody sprang to, but for the man to say something, and then I know, there was one story where the guy did try to import it. And the woman turned around and said, What? No, wow. And they believe they believe.
Dr. Connie Omari
And so there’s another culture of we’re always going to pay mouth. Wow.
Unknown Speaker
And cries, right, whatever you say, goes out the window. And I know people who have been athletes who have, who have never been able to go to college, who had been kicked out of college, have lost their jobs from people crying, rape, or molestation, or somebody touching them. And they didn’t do it. So now we’ve created a culture of people who know how to manipulate us know how to, you know, certain certain cultural aspect is so now that I know that people are going to believe me, because I’m a female, if I don’t like him, or if I want to have sex with him, and he turns me down. Or if he does something to me that I don’t like, I’m going to say write me because I know it’s going to destroy your life, whether he did it or not, because by the time they proved that he didn’t do it, it’s like he’s already.
Dr. Connie Omari
That’s true. You just don’t want that on your record at all. And I think a lot of this really has to go with just education, and letting people hear and know and like you said, instead of listening to cousin Pookie, and, you know, do your research, get schooled on this? And really, you know, make decisions based on information. Yeah, absolutely. Yes, yes. So, where do we go now? I mean, there’s just so much going on, are there any? Are there any resources because I, you know, just listening to you, Tom, the sexual assault stuff is such a big thing. So I think that, what I’m thinking is, we might need to just postpone that part for the interview, and then we can probably have you back. Because this is, you know, I really want you to get Yeah, awesome. Awesome. So yeah, we’ll talk about that. Um, let’s, let’s switch back, though, to to the sickle cell just to make sure that we give that the attention that it needs. Oh, gosh, are there any resources in general that you can just share with a person that a person with sickle cell access to help them when they’re not attending doctor’s visits or not being accused of, you know, not being compliant?
Andre Marcel Harris
Yeah. Yeah, most definitely. So I tell every sickle cell patient, if they are not connected to a, what we call a CDA organization. SCDA stands for the Sickle Cell Disease Association of America. And so we have SeaBIOS, which is community based organizations. And so we have a presence in the majority of the 50 states, where there are community organizations that their job is to really help provide social support services to those patients. And so I tell every patient if they are not connected to a community based organization in their community, to make sure that they find their nearest one and get connected, and so that they will have that social support. If not, for anything else, a support group, most the majority of them offer support groups. And then also, I would tell them to go on to SCDA website, again, if they are not, the majority of people that are in our community know what SDA is, but there’s some that don’t, so they don’t know what SCBA is. On the website, there’s so much information for them to for them to glean from. So that’s the biggest one, I would say. And then also, I would say that they should, and this is going to resources. CDC has a hub for sickle cell. So if it’s just for them to be further educated on their disease, if it’s for them to find other links to resources that the CDC has a hub that they compiled a lot of resources for sickle cell disease. So those two are the ones that are asked So say that I would tell every sickle cell patient, I think it’s worth a goal that every patient if they don’t have insurance, that they contact their local Social Security Administration to apply for Medicaid. I think that’s major. Because a disease like sickle cell disease, again, from a research article costs about that I hope I get this number wrong, but I think they said about two. Wow, wow. Wow, just to maintain?
Dr. Connie Omari
Are you serious? Wow.
Andre Marcel Harris
Yeah. And from my understanding, again, I hope I’m conceptualizing this and disseminating this information, right is that it’s numbers that are used for my guess like Medicaid, Medicare. So that’s how much the burden is for people. So I say that to say it isn’t expensive. And if, like I said, I’ve lived in I’ve lived for years without any type of insurance. So if you don’t have insurance, that is a major barrier to you having quality care, because if you don’t have insurance, well, I’m not gonna go to the hospital because right 40 where I’m at, right, you know, so you’re gonna, you’re gonna deprive yourself of the access that you need. Because you don’t you have no way to afford it. So I definitely mountain manage every patient who doesn’t have insurance to contact the Social Security Administration. And I will also say this, I had to, really so I think I did. And so I applied by myself multiple countless times. And wow, wow, I think is worth mentioning that, because a lot of people I tell them, Oh, I never thought about it alone. Because they don’t, that’s a whole, I will be talking about that. But try to apply for Social Security. So you could get Medicaid and Medicare. And we’re not having a debate that you want to live off it and is, you know, not lazy. I’ve heard a lot of people said that about other people.
Dr. Connie Omari
You want to live? Yeah, yeah.
Andre Marcel Harris
People have such a warped concept of what Social Security and entitlement benefits are for. And I have to really check people that the majority of people getting a Social Security check ain’t making 1000s of dollars. If I could, you know, if I go into the workforce and make the money that I want to, but because I haven’t, right, hello, Ruby has. Right. Good. So but again, not to start the whole. But so make sure, you know, I was telling every patient, please. And then also, I told them that look into all the other benefit programs, food stuff, like these things are here. And a lot of people like demonize them, but I’m doing your broadcast. Yeah.
Dr. Connie Omari
Yeah. Hungry, because you can’t work because you’re not feeling good. Yeah.
Andre Marcel Harris
Yeah, like, please don’t. There’s so much around that. So but I really think those are very imperative. I’ve seen so many people, myself included, having to decide whether I’m about options.
Dr. Connie Omari
And no one no, no, you shouldn’t. Oh, my God, my heart just goes out to that. And I just feel I mean, I’ll be honest with you, I’m one of those ignorant Americans, who obviously knew racism was it was, you know, present, but hadn’t really thought much about it in the healthcare field, especially with sickle cell.
Andre Marcel Harris
So you, Martin Luther King said that, out of all the in justices out there that injustice and discrimination in health care is the most inhumane. And that was one of my favorite quotes. But it’s so it is very true.
Dr. Connie Omari
It is very true. Well, just listening to you, you know, and I’m thinking about people I know, I do know that I have a cousin who has it. My mother and my brother are both carriers are one of my children as a carrier, but or have the trait but I don’t know much beyond that. But I can imagine that the people listening to this show, which, as we you know, as you know, are African American, will either have it themselves or know someone who does. So what would you recommend? Like how can we as black families support our loved ones who have sickle cell and how can we? Yeah, if we have it, how can we ask for support from our family?
Andre Marcel Harris
I love your thank you. So I will say that number one, what I didn’t say I also would like to say for those that are listening, I think everyone regardless if you’re black or not everyone should know just like we talked about, everyone should know their HIV AIDS status or They need to know, you know, get tested for STDs STD eyes, I think everyone should know their status about sickle surgery. So I think everyone if they don’t know should go get a test to see if they are a carrier and see if they have sickle cell. Some people have lived with sickle cell for you didn’t know No, wow, wow, it’s kind of rare for that because it’s our presentation is very textbook, but there’s some people who have lived and was sick and didn’t know what it was and they finally found out they had sickle cell.
Dr. Connie Omari
Well, and I can hear from you just the discrimination of stuff that even goes on with that like as black people, we’re taught that life is hard. And that you know what I mean, we’re not encouraged to go to the doctor, we’re not encouraged to get health care. So I, as unfortunate as it is, I can fully hear and see how someone could be miserable their whole life and have no idea.
Andre Marcel Harris
So definitely, I would say, first and foremost, everybody needs to know their status. So that’s just a PSA break. But in order to provide more resources again, and this is I’m laughing because I normally when something happens, I jokingly tell like my family. Well, I have sickle cell, so blah, blah, blah, or I have sickle. And I say that just but a lot of people don’t understand that sickle cell really does impact every area of a person’s life from their vision from their, you know, their speech, their cognition, especially people a lot of people with sickle cell. Wow. So they have delays, or impairments, I should say. So there’s so many, if you think about it, sickle cell disease is a blood. Blood is you know, we talk about life. And in Christian sick shit sections in the galaxy, we understand how important it is. But there’s no part of our body that is not affected by blood, their blood has to flow everywhere from head to toe for us. Wow. So if you think about that, if it’s a blood disorder and blood flows everywhere, that means there’s a potential for sickle cell disease to impact or any part of and I say all that to make an establishment of that. I think a lot of people expect too much. Like you said, from people with sickle cell because us as black people are basically taught, yeah, wrong. And so we show Melanie, male or female when you show Hey, I’m not feeling well, or I’m not doing well. And yeah, it’s because I have sickle cell A lot of people just scuffing black girl, you got to get up to wash these dishes, right? Boy, you better wash these clothes, and not really understand that. And, again, mental health issues and crashing. So I lay all that foundation to say that the biggest thing is that parents family members, cousins, aunties, friends need to realize when their loved one that has sickle cell is saying something that they can’t do, or it’s hard for them to do right now. Listen to don’t push them beyond their limits. That’s one of the things because that’s a whole nother lecture about how sickle cell leads to fatigue, and lack of desire to do things. And that’s all biological. But when you understand that, I think people wouldn’t be so hard on people I and my family never really was like that. But I’ve had a lot of friends or church members who really didn’t understand what I was going through and push me and had expectations of me that when I did meet them, it not only saddened or hurt me, but it they did understand why I couldn’t do it and how much of that evening might go back to raise because you know, he’s just not motivated or he’s lazy or he you know, is not right.
Dr. Connie Omari
And as a student. And again, as you said, we’ve been cutting out if it is so far as students and students so again, I just graduated I will be 31 and I just graduated with my back. And so I looked like most people, I thought you were younger? Uh huh.
Andre Marcel Harris
It was people who see me who don’t know me This is saying that I am a traditional but when I was an undergrad the first time in 2007 I had to leave school because I kept it I just could not keep up and so a lot of People when they learned that I basically dropped out of school, and why you need to go back to school, it’s not. We put so many demands expectations on people, they have chronic illnesses and not understand that day, I have cried. And even though some people do use it as it is very legitimate for a lot of people that they just cannot meet up with. So that is the biggest thing I can say for the loved ones of those who do. And then I also would say, for them to really educate themselves. Again, I’m a big advocate of education. The more education you have, the less ignorant you are, oh, my goodness, yeah. Yes, educate them about the disease. And then that’s when they can genuinely show some type of support. And my family knows that there’s some days where I just can’t, I want to say I can’t, but I choose not to get out. And I need a day where I can, yes, and recover. And relax, because it’s hard to explain what you feel. Having sickle cell disease. There are some days where I am energized, energized, energized, hmm. In within 10 minutes, I could be in, you know, just, you know, in a malaise. So it you know, there’s a lot of ups and downs. And for the most part, my family understands and respects. And when they call me or come by the house is a Netflix and chill day they write in it good.
Dr. Connie Omari
Yeah. Good. That’s, that’s okay. Awesome, awesome. Well, Andre, we’re going to just switch to a part of the show now that we call what’s good. And what’s good is where we take a hypothetical situation that could be happening to one of our listeners and ask your professional advice. Are you ready? All right, me, Terrell. Terrell is a 24 year old African American male with sickle cell disease, he has recently been feeling a lot of pain in his joints, he has been dizzy, and he feels fatigued, period. He knows that he needs emotional and physical support, but has no idea where to access resources outside of the hospital, do you have any advice for Drew?
Andre Marcel Harris
Well, with the symptoms of fatigue and all of that, I would first say that, I think he should go to the hospital to see a doctor, just to make sure there’s a lot of things that happen in the inside of the body, again, that fatigue or distress, or any of that may present itself. That may be something a lot larger. So I would say make sure you see someone to make sure there’s no underlying issues there. And then also, like I said, before, really being able to find a way to provide the foundation. So like I said, I think everybody should have been here. So he maybe he needs to go to the Social Security Administration and apply. Maybe he maybe if he has, you know, benefits from your spouse or parents, whoever, you know, utilize those insurance resources and find a clinician in the mental health arena that will be able to. Yeah, but again, just to kind of tag to your story. foundations have to be, you have to find those basic resources that you need, and provide for them. And that’s what I always tell my fellow colleagues, and patients with sickle cell, build that foundation. So you know, you need engineers, you know, you need some type of access to transportation, you know, you know, you need, you know, certain resources to help you stay alive and be a viable Citizens Committee, yes, to make sure that you get those status. So that’s why I made sure I got social security. That’s why I made sure I applied. That’s why I made sure I applied these things, so that they can be a root Foundation. And he really needs that. I love it. Love it.
Dr. Connie Omari
Amazing. Amazing. Well, Andre, you have been a wealth of just knowledge and inspiration to me and my audience. Yes, absolutely. And I know that people are going to want to be able to contact you and just get a little bit more information. So can you just use this time right now to let our listeners know where they can find you?
Andre Marcel Harris
Yeah, so if they want to email me they can email me at Andre ANPR Marcel ma RC L. Here is H A Ri s at Gmail. So that’s basically my first middle and last name and.com
Dr. Connie Omari
And I’ll put that in the show notes. I have your email.
Andre Marcel Harris
Awesome. They can follow me on Twitter and Andre, here’s at nine. I’m on Instagram at Andre Marcel Harris. And they can always search and find me on Facebook, Andre, Marcel, here’s, and those are the main three platforms I use, especially when it comes about advocacy, and all that and all of those things. So if they want to learn a lot more about mirror the work I’m doing or sickle cell or anything else, they can follow me in those avenues. And this specifically for black men in social work, you can follow him on Twitter, black men in S. So at Black men is black men, it’s heavy, I n is heavy, or on Instagram, black at black men.
Dr. Connie Omari
Yeah, please reach out.
Andre Marcel Harris
Yes, of course, please do. And if you are on Facebook, you of course could just go into your search and type in blabbing and social work. And you should find our group and our like page. And if you are a black man in social work, we would love for you to join our group. And as I said, in the hip hop Social Work podcast is that this demand is something that I did not foresee when I create. I am trying my best to meet the demands, but I have no operating operating account. I have you know, it’s just me right now. So I do say that as a disclaimer for people to bear with me as I tried to explore some of the ideas that have been given to me some of the ideas that I have, is kind of still in its infancy. So I really would like to see more that we do as black men and social work. But at this time, we’re still kind of in the grassroots level. So please bear with me. But we would love to have you we would love for you to benefit from that camaraderie. Again, like I said earlier, people have received jobs. Amazing. And their life has been changed better from groups. So I encourage Yes,
Dr. Connie Omari
I do as well just look at the opportunities that you have provided just even though you’re not directly working with clients per se, just by providing this medium and this resource in this planning the seat people have been able to tap into that and now expand and go on and do great things. And I’m just I’m really proud of you. I’m really proud of you. And thank you for what you’re doing. Thank you for joining us today. I am going to definitely follow up with you again because you have a wealth of knowledge. I really want to tap into black men and sexual assault and in a later episode if that’s okay with you. Yeah, stick again. Thank you for coming and you’d be blessed. Bye
All right, you too. Bye.<