Dr. Connie Omari
Hey there, and welcome to this person’s journey bonus episode of The Black Marriage and Family Therapy Matters podcast, where we connect black families to black therapists. I’m your host, Dr. O. These prison journeys are bonus episodes that I’ve added to the show based off of my experiences navigating through the criminal justice system, a journey that developed. Well, unbeknownst to me, I found myself running a federally funded program with two conflicting service definitions, torn between whether or not to abandon the program, which would leave 18 women and children homeless, or try to preserve my company, which provided their housing. I lied on the paperwork so that it would match, making me guilty of making false statements related to health care matters. Despite my intentions, the government did not see it that way. And eventually, case number two, 21 CFR 11, also known as the United States of America vs. Connie Omari, was born. For seven years, the United States government conducted an international investigation against me, accusing me of conspiring to defraud the government of over half a million dollars.
This investigation included 33 witnesses, three FBI agents, and two United States assistant attorneys. I was facing over 10 years of incarceration. I lost over 80 pounds during this process. At the time, my future felt very dim, and I felt myself losing my mind, body, and spirit. Nonetheless, the will to be strong for my children prevailed, just when the government seemed to be winning their narrative of events against me. Against all odds, my attorney was able to present enough evidence to convince a federal judge that, though a serious crime was committed, my heart was in the right place. Despite the lengthy sentence recommended by both the prosecutor and the probation department, I was sentenced to just four months of incarceration at the Alderson prison camp in West Virginia, where Martha Stewart served her time in 2012. Of course, this didn’t absolve me of my feelings of depression, as I felt alone and defeated.
As I contemplate it, I wonder how my decision to help these women and children gain stability resulted in me being separated from my own. And in my most vulnerable state, I cried out to God, at which time God reminded me that, just like the footprints in the sand, he wasn’t only with me during that moment; he had carried me the entire way. It was then that I decided to strap up my steel-toed prison boots and turn this test into a testimony. Allow me to share with you how this painful journey has made me a better wife, mother, thought leader, and child of God, and I hope that you too may be inspired. Welcome to my prison journey. Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to the prison journey. As you know, today’s episode is going to be very, very different. I am introducing you to what I like to call a bonus session.” And these are going to be just little bonuses that I have thought would be very helpful in helping you because they have also helped me. So without further ado, I’d like to officially welcome you to your prison journey. So let’s be good. As many of you already know, I did indeed plead guilty to making false statements related to health care matters. And I served four months in a federal prison. So today’s purpose really is just to kind of get some clarity on that. As you know, these types of things typically make the news.
Although some make the news more than others. I do think mine got quite a bit of publicity. But who knows? I can’t compare; this is the only one I’ve been a part of. So yeah, there was quite a bit of publicity. And I kind of like to set the record straight. Mainly, the main reason that I want to do this for you guys today is because I believe wholeheartedly that God has created a gift and a talent within me to serve the black community and to really make a difference in the lives of people in such a way that I was able to demonstrate what I had done before my incarceration leading up to my incarceration and moving forward. I do believe that it’s important to talk about both sides of the story. The media has had their opportunity to talk and discuss what I believe about my conviction, and I like to be able to do that with their audience. And I’d like to be able to do the same with mine. Again, the purpose is not to insult the government or the criminal justice system, but rather to see clarity and make sure that those who come across me and my work know my character and what I am capable of. And so I’m going to be breaking down some of those details for you in this episode. Okay.
I also want to speak about the importance of imprisonment. My imprisonment, as you know, was physical; I was physically incarcerated, I had my freedom restricted from me, and I was at the mercy of the federal government for four months. I recognize that most people won’t go through that, and I hope that they don’t, although currently, right now, the United States has an incarceration rate of about 2.3 million, which I think is a lot. And as we get through this video today, I’m hoping that you, like myself, will be motivated to kind of give this a voice and be some type of advocate for it. But nonetheless, income, physical cargo, and incarceration are a lot. But when we think about the emotional and psychological incarceration that people go through, much of which was the biggest part of this, For the record, by now, I believe he was actually facing 10 years. But I went through a seven-year investigation and was basically incarcerated for months. And myself, my husband, my mother, everybody who’s really been deeply involved and immersed in this process has agreed that if there was some way that we could have just bypassed the seven-year investigation and just given the four months of incarceration, we would have chosen that, because the psychological and emotional imprisonment that people go through is just sometimes even worse, and it really is worth it. So I am telling you not that I loved prison; I think it was a walk in the park, although it’s not what a lot of people probably think. But for the record, I would say hands down, given the opportunity to have had it my way, I would have done these four months of physical incarceration as opposed to the seven years of just the unknowing, the waiting, the fighting, the deliberating, and all that type of stuff.
And that’s really what I’m coming to, why I decided to create the prison journey because, you know, we do that, like we often have, and we are often imprisoned in our minds. And going through this experience has opened this up to me in so many ways. And I know that it’s going to be helpful for you. And that’s why I’m taking this opportunity to really set the record straight. And to create this series in the hopes that while my physical imprisonment journey can be utilized as a tool to help you get through your prison,
It’s in your head, the psychological imprisonments that you endure, as well as any emotional ones. And heaven forbid, if you have a physical incarceration for either yourself or a loved one, someone you care about, I want it to be helpful in those situations as well. Okay, so again, without further ado, welcome to my prison. So let’s start from the beginning. I found out that I was pregnant in August of 2014. And I had been looking at some, you know, just business opportunities. At that point, I was a private practice practitioner; I was working exclusively in a private practice; it was just myself, and I was serving probably anywhere between 18 and 20 to 23 clients a week. So I had a pretty full practice making really good money, but I knew that God was calling me to do something bigger. So when I first saw that I had been researching these programs anyway, in the state of Virginia, and when I learned that I was pregnant, I said, Okay, you know, it is my time to really make a difference. And I wanted to do something that my child could be proud of me for. And just really, you know, I really wanted to start this. So I went in and found an office space—a beautiful office space. In fact, I will put a picture of that office space right here.
And I made a nice little investment in it so that I could start this program according to Medicaid standards. So before I continue, I know we have an international audience.
So I want to make sure that we understand that Medicaid is a federally funded program. So basically, we pay taxes; the citizens of the United States pay taxes on this. Federal funds are set aside to serve indigenous people who cannot pay for and afford services for themselves. So in exchange for that, the programs are typically highly regulated; they’re very strict on who they allow to provide the services and what types of services are being provided. And just to make sure that the services are providing the capacity with which they say they’re going to be provided, So I had done extensive research on this particular program. And the irony of this situation is that I had originally chosen a different program. Okay, for those who don’t know, I have written a book, Sacred Journey to Ladyhood: A Woman’s Guide Through Her Rite of Passage. I’ll put a copy of that here as well for you. And I found that in going back and reading through the applications and the different service definitions, the program that I actually went with, which is the one I later became incarcerated with, was more appropriate to meet the ideal that I was trying to convey in that book. This is like a whirlwind.
Sometimes when I just look back, I just have to say, You know what, right, wrong, or indifferent, however complicated or difficult this was, I have to say that I know that God needed for me to get incarcerated because there were just so many random things that kind of occurred that led up to this, many of which I’m going to cover today. So that is how the sacred journey started. That is how the sacred journey was intended to run. And that is all I want to make very clear before I continue that, in addition to making sure that these are some of the things that we had to be responsible for: I had to get a location; I had to get office supplies; I had to hire staff; I had to get certifications; I had to get licenses; I had to get utilities; I had to do a lot of things. And keep in mind, I’ve already told you I was pregnant. And I’m running this service from out of state. So I’m living in North Carolina, and I’m commuting to and from Virginia; this is about a three-hour commute. And I was doing it to the point where, through my entire pregnancy, I was kind of getting these things together. I actually had to get clearance from my midwife that I wasn’t able, you know, to take breaks on the journey because I was starting to engage in a lot of swelling and a lot of other things that typically come with being pregnant. But sitting down for an extended period of time and keeping my foot on the gas was not part of my medical treatment.
So I had to get, like, rest rates, hotels, and just so many other things. As I’m developing this program, it lists very specific criteria for the people that you are allowed to serve. And among those criteria is homelessness or being at risk of homelessness. You can see a copy of those criteria listed. So, of course, I moved along. And I did as I was instructed; I recruited all of the people I needed to have in place for the service. I needed to have them know what the service was. So I was practically paying staff members to keep in touch with people before I had any funds whatsoever released from the government. So that was that I did get my license, which took about a year. I would have the resources, I would have a program, and I’d have something functional so that the clients could come and get the services that they were requesting. During this time, unfortunately, right before it was time for me to get licensed, You never know when you’re going to get licensed. So I was actually paying for this really nice building for about a year out of my own resources. For about a year before the license, it seemed the department actually granted me the license. But right before that occurred, I unfortunately fell down a flight of stairs in my home after my daughter’s baby shower and broke my toe in seven places. You can see a picture of me actually posting about this on Facebook here. One of the things I needed after this process was a physical bank account, because you have to prove that you have enough funds to cover the program for three months, not just after I’ve spent all of this money investing in this program.
And you have to deposit those funds in a bank account with the company’s name on it. Now, most of those things that I have already described me doing, I was able to either do from home or travel to and from Virginia until I broke my toe. Well, because money was the sensitive issue because I was spending so much of it anyway and I didn’t have the bank account in time, I saved that for the end. Obviously, I could not anticipate that I was going to fall down the stairs and break my tail in certain places while nine months pregnant with the baby. So when that occurred, I realized, Okay, I’m getting close to the licensing department. I need to submit this information. I took my husband to the bank to open up the account. My husband, as many of you know, is African. I’m not going to want to say anything more about that other than there are stereotypes about Africans, money, and distortion. Unfortunately, I do believe that the bank account was in his name, whether it was my name or his name, because I have his African name. That did not help. Okay, the perception of our intentions as this investigation grew So at this point, the bank account is now open in my husband’s name and the business name, but it shows that he’s the person who actually opened the account, and I am at home with a broken toe.
As this occurs, within weeks, I find out that I am licensed and am now able to run the program. We are so excited; all of our hard work has come to this moment. So we contact all the ladies, all the women that we have been promising services to: food, shelter, mental health services, wraparound service, psychotropic medication, just all the things that they need to get themselves stabilized. Again, we are serving a very high-risk and vulnerable population. So we promised them the services. And now that we are finally ready to execute on those seven, there’s a problem. After providing the services for about a week, I believe it was around that time because, to be honest with you, I didn’t quite know how to submit the claims. I submitted the claims, and again, according to these criteria, the claims got denied, stating that the clients did not meet medical necessity. Now, of course, that’s confusing to me because I know that for the past year, I have been planning to run this service. According to these criteria
I have been approved by the state regulators to run this service according to these criteria, yet I’m still getting a denial stating that if these clients do, they do not meet medical necessity. So several things come to mind. The first thing was obviously, Okay, don’t submit these claims, and just abandon all these women and children. I mean, it’s not ideal, of course, and it certainly wasn’t why I went into this business and why I put so much effort into it. But it did cross my mind. Because, you know, if they’re saying that the client’s claims don’t qualify, well, what am I to do? So that brings me to, excuse me, that leads me to the second thing that crossed my mind: to talk to somebody about it. I did begin to talk with people on the phone about just the person that, you know, was denying my claims; she was very adamant that I was wrong. She was very adamant that I didn’t know what I was talking about. And to be honest with you, my own insecurities and my own limiting beliefs made me believe that my voice did not have any place against the federal government. The federal government says that you’re wrong. Even though I’m looking at the definition right here. I believed it, okay, and felt insecure.
I just didn’t feel like I could push this issue at this time, which is interesting. You’ll see at the end that somehow I was able to find my voice, but at the time in 2000. Now, at 15, because it was about a year before we got to this point, I did not have the confidence to think that I could stand up to the federal government and tell them what I knew to be true, which was that according to the rules and regulations that I agreed to, these clients did indeed qualify. The third thing I could have done was just transfer the clients. But for those of you who understand what happens when you’re working with an indigenous population like this, first of all, it was a group. So it wasn’t like the original program that I was trying to apply for, where you were working with clients individually. But it’s weak when you’re talking about people who don’t have any type of social support or resources, many of whom were homeless and did not even have a place to live. When you’re around a group of people who understand things like your trauma and your history of domestic and sexual violence,
And you’ve already begun bonding about that. It’s really hard to justify breaking you up and sending you to different places, to be honest with you. Housing is such a limited and scarce resource. So it was hard; it was impossible to send all 18 of these women somewhere at once. So that they could continue to give me, who was sitting there waiting for 18 women to show up at their door and say, Oh, let me provide you behavioral health services. You know, like, that’s not how this works. But, you know, even sending them individually was very, very hard, and that would have kind of defeated the purpose because, you know, we were a cohesive group at that point. And it was hard and unfair. I thought to break for the women up. So that leads me to decide that since I truly thought that these clients did qualify, again, according to the rules and regulations that I was permitted to follow, my behavior wasn’t a crime. But I submitted false statements to make sure that the paperwork matched. When the paperwork matched, the clients were approved for services. And then I was given the money to continue to serve as I continued to run this program. I ran this program for about 20 months.
At the time, again, it seemed like what I was doing was the right thing. The unfortunate part about that, though, is that, you know, in the book of Matthew seven, and I’m going to put the Scripture right here, it talks about this struggle with building a house on sand instead of a sturdy rock. So there were a number of problems that became a domino effect: what types of things are we supposed to be doing, and where can these interventions occur? What types of people are we supposed to be seeing? I mean, when you don’t know definitively who you’re serving, when you don’t have the main foundation set up, there are a number of things that can happen. So it’s not uncommon, first of all, for providers at this capacity to get reports made about them. I don’t know how many I have; I only know of about two or three. But the fact that the government already had this very definitive false statement on record may put me in the hot seat. So when I did start getting complaints, they already said,
Well, we knew on her very first day, on her very first claim submissions, that she lied on some statements. And to be honest, they continued to watch me, which, you know, is an investigation. You know, people do what they do. But, you know, I can’t help but wonder if you really thought these clients were at risk. And then I was harming them. I think it’s interesting that I was allowed to run a program for 20 months, during which time I decided to close it down because I became overwhelmed. We’re not at that part yet. So let’s just continue. Fortunately, my husband started this program again, so we got licensed around October 2015. My husband’s grandmother died, I believe, in November of 2016. He is now from Africa. And the way that they go about funerals is, well, it’s just a very intricate and elaborate process. But she did not get buried until February of 2017. So this is when it really gets juicy. Because this was one of the things that made the headlines, I, of course, in support of my husband, went to Africa to attend his grandmother’s funeral. First of all, the headlines and the news don’t mention that I’m in Africa, and I just can’t help but notice how it would have read a little differently if it had because one of the blogs even said that I was like on a beach, you know, sipping Mojitos and things like that. That wasn’t at all the case; I was actually in Africa. And even though my husband is from a very distant place, you know, it’s not actually where he lives or where his family lives. And it’s a city; you know, they have resources, they have Wi-Fi, they have everything that they need to live a life that’s very similar to the one here in the US. But the particular village that we were in at the time was very, very cool. Okay, I didn’t have spotty Wi-Fi, I very negligently took my phone and kind of went through the claims, you know, just trying to get a signal. And, unfortunately, I submitted some claims with my name on them, which I obviously could not have provided because I was in Africa. However, and this is another thing that is just sensitive, you know, we’re thinking about criminal justice, and the criminal justice system should be about justice. The US government had in their possession documentation that actually occurred in the US.
So you have me, yes, submitting these claims in Africa. Not on the beach, but in Tahiti, Africa, at a funeral with spotty Wi-Fi. Forgive me for not having the language to say something to my in-laws who are grieving. Listen, I know that you are grieving, and you’re having a moment, but can you take me back to the city so I can get, you know, so I can get these claims submitted? You know, I understand that to them, they’re just an African population, but to me, these are my family, and I love them and care about them. And that’s not to say that I don’t take the Medicaid claims very seriously. But think about a human being who is torn between, you know, running a program in the United States and trying to support her grieving, loving husband. It’s about intent; it’s about what a person is intending to do at the time. And the fact that I had people in the United States actually documenting this in real time as the provider in Virginia, okay, states that there was no criminal intent here. There wasn’t any intention of defrauding the US government. Okay. negligent? Yes, the fraud. Intentionally, there was no proof to substantiate that.
So this happens in February 2017, March 2020, when the Medicare fraud investigators walk in on me, and this alarms and spooks everybody. People are already aware that some things are not matching up, the paperwork isn’t matching up, and things like that. But again, I never really found the energy, the voice, the nerve, or the skill to tell my staff what was going on. Again, I didn’t think anybody would believe me. Who is this black girl from, you know, the south going to say that the federal government had conflicting paperwork, so when they walk in, and I really don’t know what’s going on, And to be honest with you, I do believe silence is golden. And it served me significantly in the end to have kept this, but it was frustrating because the whole time, I was getting blamed for something that, yes, I chose to make false statements about. I own that 100%. But look at the criminal intent and the implications of the things that are being implied. I was vulnerable and felt obligated to uphold my end of the bargain for things that I truly believed were going to work out at the time. So anyway, they walk in and spook my staff, and I end up losing a lot of staff and having to rehire staff because I’m really still thinking like an idiot that I can save this program because I’m just that passionate about what I’m doing. And I have at this point; I don’t remember 1820–25. I mean, a lot of women staying with me and children staying in my homes are begging on me to get this. In light of that, I think it’s just very funny to mention that, you know, if you read the media and the articles that are being presented about me, there’s this narrative that I wasn’t providing any services for these women; these women were living in my home, okay?
It’s very, very clear that I was at least paying staff to do something because they have access to records of my financial payments. And as a bonus, we are actually having an interview with a staff member, Brittany Lanier, who formerly worked for sacred journey, who is going to give her account of what occurred. But services were absolutely provided. You’re interesting, as you have my word against what the media says. I’m not even going to talk about the prosecutor and stuff. There’s some way that the media got information about this. I can’t speak for what that is, but I know what I agree to. I know what I pleaded guilty to, and I know what occurred in that courtroom. I also know of allegations that are not substantiated. But you know, when you think about what you’re publicizing in the media, it’s relatively unfortunate that the media does what they do, and they like the car; they want to keep you on edge. They want to, you know, they just really want a really big story. And I truthfully believe that if they had told the truth in this story, this probably would have been bigger than what they actually reported. I mean, people are always trying to defraud the government; people are always trying to harm poor and innocent people. So when you have a case that doesn’t really have a lot of evidence to substantiate that, I guess the media just, you know, talked about a little black girl, you know, from the south versus the federal government. I think they chose who they wanted to pick on. But at this moment, I’d like to set the record straight; it’s my word against theirs. So you will see right here, okay, that they produce absolutely zero documentation to substantiate what they said and wrote about me. Okay. You will also see here that in an effort to nail me, the investigator made her own false statements at the trial, excuse me, and said things about me that were not true.
So you know, when you think about false statements in the grand scheme of things, my false statements were designed to save women and children and keep them from being homeless. I’m not quite sure of her motivation for the false statements, but it doesn’t appear that they were rooted in integrity and wanting to do the right moral and ethical thing at this time. This is what happens at the end of the day. I think. This really speaks for itself, you know. I was facing 10 years, and I got four months. So you can see if that alone doesn’t tell you. You can also see here that my defense attorney argued, fought, and advocated for me so heavily that he was actually shaking him, and he was a white man. And you can see the blood coming through, but I couldn’t have been more thankful for him to have produced, you know, while the government had no documents to substantiate their claims, we had 1718, I can’t quite remember. But, you know, I do have all of that in the notes.
So if my recollection and account of events are not sufficient, I have the entire court record available for you. So please, wherever you are listening or watching this, take a moment to look at those records. And then you will see for yourself that the allegations against me were not substantiated, at least by the court documents. But anyway, they fought, and he fought for me so hard. And the attorney—I’m sorry, the judge on the case—really described what she was hearing as painful. Again, you can see that right here. And, you know, we really debated on this because, typically, when people come before the court and they say that, you know, half a million dollars, a criminal defendant has defrauded the government of or made false statements that resulted in a loss to the government, And in the amount of half a million dollars, there’s not a lot to say about it. But by the grace of God, my attorney came correct, and we all came correct. And after about three hours, typically, these things are over and resolved in about 15 minutes. But my attorney presented evidence after evidence after evidence; it took about three hours to fully communicate this point to the judge and listen very attentively. She absorbed what she was saying, and I do believe she rendered a judgment that was very gracious based upon the information that she received. But again, it speaks for itself. Okay. You know, the way that I presented it in the media versus what really happened in court, there is an inconsistency in that. And so I really wanted to set that record straight. I will.
I will say that one of the things that was truthful in the media was that I did fall out. Okay, so in my defense, I didn’t have my water, and I did not have my vitamins. I did. I was not ready. Okay. I am truthfully, truthfully, truthful. This just lets you know that, despite having pleaded guilty to a charge of half a million dollars, okay, I did not think that I was going to be incarcerated. And this is why, and what I’m going to tell you now is very, very risky. And I will just start with the fact that it is actually another lie. And I’m, I have been advised not to, and you probably are going to say, Okay, this woman is clearly crazy. This government is not playing with her. You know, you know, she’s already served time. Why is she always pushing, always pushing the boundary? But what I want to say is that I believe that the criminal justice system should be based on justice. Maybe I’m not going about it the right way. I know. There are all types of advocacy groups and lobbyists and all types of programs and stuff that are going on, and I’m going to give you some of those referrals when it’s done. But I come from a family of just doing the right thing. mindset and perspective. I believe that God has sustained me through this. And if this comes up again, God will continue to sustain me. And I further believe that the government is banking on people’s fears, doubts, and insecurities to keep them from speaking up.
And it continues to give them the power, the authority, and the ability to control circumstances and get these huge convictions. These major press releases, as I believe I’ve demonstrated thus far, were not necessarily warranted. So you might wonder, Okay, she made false statements. She proved that her heart was in the right place, and she did it with good intention. Why does she still get incarcerated? I’m going to explain that to you now. Then I can’t speak for the judge. Okay. She’s the one who made the ultimate decision, but from what I understand and what I’ve gone through, there’s what’s called the okay. A mandatory minimum. Is a law. Okay, the or is that I don’t know if it’s a law because I want to use the right words. I’m not an attorney. This is not legal advice. Mandatory minimums are certain, which basically means that certain laws, excuse me, carry certain penalties where a minimum incarceration sentence is enforced. Now the purpose is to keep some people from defrauding the government of half a billion dollars by getting four months, some forgiving four years, some getting 14 years, etc. The purpose of the minimum is to make it so that, you know, people are minimally held accountable for crimes that are committed. Unfortunately, it does not take into consideration any external situation, such as what I went through. So if a person commits a crime in good faith, it’s good to prove that that crime was precipitated by an error on the part of the government.
The mandatory minimum doesn’t take that into consideration, nor do the sentencing guidelines, and we’re going to get into that in a minute. So the mandatory minimum that I face now—this is what really makes false statements—doesn’t have a mandatory minimum. That’s what I played, at least not at the time that I pleaded guilty to it. But aggravated identity theft does. Now, aggravated identity theft is the same thing as false statements, except that it implies it, as the name implies, that I use a person’s identity in the commission of committing a crime. Okay, that doesn’t mean I do anything extra. Well, you know, for those of you that are in the US, you know that in order to submit these claims, you have to kind of have the identity to do that. So yes, I was also guilty of aggravated identity theft, which carries a minimum of two years incarceration. Well, to get me to agree, so obviously, I wanted to avoid that, because that meant that I would have had to plead guilty, I would have gotten a mandatory two years, and if she decided to give me the format, she could have given me the format as well. But going to trial, you know, I ran the risk of there being sophistication of crime, which is what he tried to imply, and the number of victims, and because I was a smart and intelligent woman, you know, extortion of power, abuse of power—all of these enhancements would have made the conviction much even heavier.
So that’s why I agreed to take the deal. But had I taken the deal for the correct amount of money that the initial transaction, which resulted in a loss to the federal government that I pleaded guilty to lying to, did not result in half a million dollars, it would have been well under $100, 100,000, or $100,000, which typically is probation. So that’s where I really just lost it. I will say last, but I did, you know, get very, very emotional about that because I knew in my heart, okay, that half a million dollars was grossly distorted. And I don’t like to say that I was coerced, because I did know what I was doing and felt like that was the best. I am a mother. Okay, I am a mother of two; my children at the time were six, and that prosecutor, basically, who did not have any documents, as I have already proven, put me in a position where I had to admit to half a million dollars. Okay. And knowing that he didn’t have the documents to prove it, because you can see that he came to court with no documents here. I felt that it was in my best interest to admit it, as opposed to not admitting it, going to trial, proving that he didn’t have the document, and taking the stiff penalty of a mandatory minimum of two years incarceration.
So that is why I got the four months, because the judge had to make the decision based on the fact that yes, she lied for false statements, but it still resulted in a loss of half a million dollars. And what the judge did in response to that was, I was very, very gracious to that, because she actually made the loss amount down to $200,000. At least that’s what she sent it to me on. And we’ll go into all of that. I will go into that in another episode. But basically, you know, I did work for the company. My husband worked for the company for years. So when you’re talking about $200,000 between two educated people for about two and a half years, you’re really not talking about a lot of money. But again, I don’t want this to be about this. This episode is not to break that down. But it’s just a breakdown of the truth, which is that that mandatory minimum that I was trying to avoid was the reason why I was stuck with the half-million-dollar conviction from this. That’s why I made the decision to plead guilty to that. Now, if any of this is resonating with you or is making you a little upset, a little vague, or whatever you’re feeling, I’d like to share with you really quickly a story about my daughter. My daughter is now eight. She was seven years old when I was sentenced, when I was convicted, and when I died. When I was convicted, she was six, but that’s another thing for 10 months I had to wait for just by sentence, which is crazy because it was only a form of incarceration. And many people, you know, get sentenced, like, as soon as they plead guilty, so things, but again, just God just showed up. I mean, I very well could have been in prison for 10 months for something that I was only being sentenced to four months for. So that would have really been horrible.
But nonetheless, to a seven-year-old trying to understand how this could happen to her, mommy, it was very, very heavy. And I’ve been as transparent with her as possible. I mean, you know, let me just throw it real quickly. I do recognize my privilege in this situation. And that’s another reason why I’m taking a risk in doing this video: I recognize that everybody doesn’t have the same level of support and privilege, whatever, for lack of a better word, that I have, as I have, you know, worked my way through this investigation. The place where I originally served was called Alderson Prison. That’s where Martha Stewart served her time. It is a minimum-security prison. And when you look at it online, they call it Camp Cupcake. So my daughter got the best of everything. So I had one of my girlfriends email, or, I’m sorry, mail her things from Amazon. She’s thinking that they come from me with little cat pictures on them, like a little, you know, journal with cupcakes or lip gloss with cupcakes, and you know, little things like that. While I was away, she also had a little treat basket every week. I went to the Dollar Tree and bought her a little toy, and it was 17 weeks in total. So every week she could get something from the mommy treat basket. She was able to go to Disney World, she was able to continue with her dance classes out of her uncle’s provided that for her, my husband brought my mother-in-law from from Africa to stay with her here, and my son stayed with my mother as we, you know, so that she could have my son’s only three. So my mother did a lot of work in early childhood education. So I thought that that would be great for him. So we were really able to maintain the family and keep the family together as we worked through this very, very difficult experience. But a seven-year-old is still having a hard time understanding how this could happen. And so it was getting to the point where every time she saw a cop or a police officer, she would be very, very angry, and she didn’t have a lot of respect for them.
And obviously, I don’t want that to be the consequence of this scenario. So I had a conversation with her that just pretty much, and if this is happening, if you’re filling out any of this and talking about this, just know that I had a conversation with her and I said, Listen, you know, a pull police of the police are hired, okay, it is their job to prosecute crimes, or at least to green ring evidence before a prosecutor and allow a prosecutor to prosecute the crime. At the end of the day, they were convinced that a crime had been committed. And they needed to do what they were supposed to do to get to the bottom of it. And I said, Eventually, sweetheart, this system worked. Okay, because they were looking at heavy harming, there were four charges in total that they were looking at; it was 10 years maximum that they were looking at us, and for mommy to have walked away with this incident for months, you know, it eventually worked. It wasn’t everything that we wanted. But it was a lot better than what it could have been. I really, really explained that to her. And I did make the cops come in, and eventually the system worked.
Later on, I’ll have a conversation with my husband about it. And we, you know, are having adult conversation that doesn’t know about children, and we’re really honest with each other. We’re like, You know, if the system really worked, I would have never been incarcerated. Because I never would have even been prosecuted. There should be something in place that protects people when there is a governmental error from having it go to this extreme and have this outcome. This is my personal opinion. Okay. If you agree, there are three things that I want to make sure that you are very, very clear on. The first one is a mandatory minimum. Now I’m going to give you the layman’s version.
Again, I’m not an attorney. But I am serious and intentional about making sure that something gets done to curb, if it just helps one person, the prosecutions that are occurring. I was incarcerated with a lot of people who accepted a charter. The charter, the mandatory minimum as I’ve stayed, is supposed to be enforced so that people will comply so that the sentencing would be fair, right? But from what I saw, incarcerating is being incarcerated, and what happened to me is that a lot of times this minimum is used to force people to plead guilty to charges because they say, Okay, I don’t want to be in prison longer. So let me just say I did XYZ; that’s not the way that my understanding of a mandatory minimum is supposed to be created. So I want you to know, for this is for providers, but this is for anybody who is in the commission of a crime, at least at the federal level. I had never heard of a mandatory minimum; okay, that probably would have changed my whole outlook on whether or not I was going to even run a federal program. Because at the end of the day, I always thought intent mattered.
I always thought about what the person was intending to do at the time of the commission of a crime, and even though that came into place, it was no match for the final result of this because, whether it was intention or not, there are crimes that exist that carry a mandatory minimum, no matter what you intended to do. So I want it to be very, very clear that I want to make sure you know that mandatory minimums exist. And it’s important if you want to get involved from an advocacy perspective, too. I think it’s a great avenue to kind of approach it from that perspective. The second thing I want to bring to your attention is the sentencing guidelines. Okay. The sentencing guidelines, again, do not take into consideration, Well, what if an external event happens that precipitates a crime that is directly connected to the commission of the crime? And, and is, for all intents and purposes, a huge part of the reason why the crime occurred, okay, the sentencing guideline, and this is where I have to be gracious to the judge. The sentencing guidelines include things like the nature of the crime. Again, I don’t know all of these things right off the bat.
So I’m going to make sure that I put a list in here, but from my memory, the nature of the crime, the impact on society, or the need to send a message to society, how long the crime occurred, or, for financial crimes, how much occurred, are never taken into consideration. Well, what if this is a poor black girl from the South who invested all of her money into this program that was fundamentally flawed to begin with? Fast is not part of the sentencing guidelines; the judge does not say she has the final determination; she uses her discernment. And she said it was the right thing to do to consider all of those variables in this crime. And as you can tell from the judgment that she rendered, I would assume that she did that. That being said, you know, the sentencing guidelines are very, very clear. So that’s something that, you know, I don’t know, I just want to bring awareness to this, okay? There are sentencing guidelines that just say that if a person commits a crime and it results in this amount of loss, or whatever the crime is, they need to be sentenced according to these numbers. So mine was, I think, 24 to 36 months; that’s what I should have been sentenced to, according to the guidelines; had I gone to trial, it would have been something like 36 to 40 something months.
And then, without, again, the additional enhancements that they were going to try to go for me for, like, sophistication of crime, I had over 100 victims. The length because I did it for, I think, over six months or over a year, etc. So all of that would have gone into consideration. So we were realistically looking at about seven years. So yeah, that’s the sentencing guideline. And last, but certainly not least, I want to make sure you know about jury nullification. This is a strategy that I really wanted to go for. This means that I would have gone to trial and would not have fought the narrative of whether or not I was guilty of making false statements. I think that would have been very, very hard to do, even though my name was only on about three of those statements. Nonetheless, even if it was just one, if I’m guilty of it, I’m guilty of a crime. But what jury nullification does is give the jury the ability to bypass the argument. So they could have said, Yes, I believe that she’s convicted of a crime. To the one who thinks that the jury or she is guilty of a crime, I’m sorry, but to convict her and to have her experience be incarcerated is excessive. Okay. So I want people to know that a jury does have the right to do that. Unfortunately, I didn’t trust that the jury in my case would accept me because I’m from North Carolina, which is a democratic state. This was the Republic of Virginia. I didn’t know anybody there. I didn’t have any connections there. And at the end of the day, I grew up thinking that, okay, if a person is guilty of a crime and you prove that, then they have to pay the penalty.
I felt like society would do the same, and I could not risk that with two beautiful children that I was responsible for that I birthed and I wanted to see grow up, but I want you to know that jury for unification is a real thing. Now, I don’t think a lot of people will tell you that, especially a lot of prosecutors and judges, because at the end of the day, it says,Well, forget, you know, the criminal justice system; you’re going to do what you want to do. But there are situations and scenarios where you have to make a judgment call. And you know, you really have to ask yourself: is incarceration the appropriate punishment, okay, for a crime being committed? So those are the three things that I want to make sure that you know about mandatory minimums, sentencing guidelines, and jury nullification. And now for a bonus tree, I have invited former staff member Brittany Lanier to speak a little bit more about what her experience was like working for sacred journey. It has been a pleasure to speak with you today. I thank you so much for just being a part of this and listening to the end. And I am hopeful that this series is going to empower you in the same way that it’s empowering me and that it’s helped me get through this process.
So without further ado, I’d like to officially welcome you to the prison journey, and it’s my opportunity to introduce to you my former staff, better known as Britain Lunaire. Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to the black Marriage and Family Therapy Matters podcast, where we connect black families to black therapists. Today’s guest is completely different. So this is actually the bonus session for my introduction to the prison journey. And I am going to be interviewing one of my former staff members at sacred Journey. Her name is Brittany Linear, and she’s here with us today. Hi, Brittany.
Brittany Lanier
Hi, Connie, how are you?
Dr. Connie Omari
I’m good. How are you? Good. Good, good. Good. So, um, I know very, very little about you. Believe it or not, even though you work for us, Do you remember how long you worked for the company?
Brittany Lanier
Um, it was under a year; I’m not sure exactly how many months it was.
Dr. Connie Omari
Okay, so the program itself was 20 months where we were actually seeing clients, although we did about a year of preparation leading up to it. But yeah, you work for us towards the ending part of that. Um, so yeah. Why don’t you tell us a little bit more about what you do now?
Brittany Lanier
What? Now? Anything
Dr. Connie Omari
You want to, you know, fill in the gaps.
Brittany Lanier
Okay. I still work in the mental health field, helping clients. Right now, I serve in my capacity. I work a lot with community stabilization, which is a crisis. Okay. I’m dealing with a lot of everyday struggles. There are a lot of people who are in need of mental support and are unmedicated. There are a lot of people who are homeless; there’s nowhere for them to go. And just, you know, limited resources in the area. So that’s a daily struggle. What I do pretty much
Dr. Connie Omari
especially in that area. Yes. You’re still in the Hampton Roads area. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So that is, I mean, I don’t really have the statistics right off, but it’s a very heavily Lee, African American population, and lower income. So as part of the reason that drove me to that area to start my program, sacred journey So we talked a little bit before we came on the show. Before we hit record, I just want to make it very clear that my purpose for bringing you on the show today isFirst of all, I want to thank you for coming on the show. And I want to just make it clear that my interest isn’t in bashing anybody, proving any point, or doing anything. I haven’t even had an attorney, you know, review this in advance. In fact, most of the feedback that I’ve been getting is because I’m on home confinement. So I’m still technically in jail. I’m just in jail at home. Or the reason why, you know, the investigation is obviously over. I have served my time. But there’s still the home confinement portion and then the supervised release voice first portion, which stipulates that I’m still under supervision until I get off, which is about two and a half years. And so if I get into any trouble, which I’m not, things could come up and be used against me. But one of the things that I think is very important about this and why I want to continue knowing this information is that the criminal justice system is about justice. And what we should be doing is trying to promote justice, doing the right thing, and doing the most good. I truthfully believe that there are times, and I believe, as I’ve already shared in my introduction, that we’re going to continue to go on with this. There are times when there might be a legal and moral issue that is in conflict. And if there’s ever going to be an area where we merge them more together and get on the right page, I think it does take bold advocacy to step out and do what’s right. So what’s happened and what happens often is that the people in power rely on fear and intimidation, a lot of which we’re going to talk about today, to kind of maintain that power, and therefore, the balance that needs to be created is that the power needs to be consistent with justice, all for everybody. It doesn’t occur because people are afraid to speak up, to be honest, and to take risks and challenges. And part of the reason why I landed myself in federal prison is because I took a risk, because I took on a challenge. And I just have to trust that as God carried me through that, if indeed somebody wanted to come after me again with this, God’s going to carry me through that too, because my intentions, as they have been from the very beginning, have been good and genuine. And I’m going to continue with that today. So Brittany, have you been on the show? You obviously worked for one of my companies or one of my programs that did not quite turn out the way I expected. And what I wanted to say about you is that, first of all, there were 33 witnesses against me that were interviewed by the FBI. One of them said great things about me. Just okay, I’ve never, you know, I can’t believe this. As you know, this is not the point at which I was coming. I was working on my PhD. But this is not Connie; I know, I’m you know, whatever. The second, and I’m going to be bold enough to say this, was the licensing department. The licensing department also did not say a single negative thing about me, but they admitted that I had a hard time running the program. But in terms of just saying that they thought that I was fraudulent and trying to set out to exploit clients and things like that, They didn’t say anything about that. Then you have 31 other witnesses, some of whom the FBI actually needed a picture of; they didn’t even know me. Keep in mind that this is an out-of-state program. I don’t live in Virginia; I live in North Carolina, so you can help us fill in the gaps. But I was really there. So, um, but it’s my program, and I take responsibility. And I’m doing that; I’ve done that since I was incarcerated, but we’re going to fill in the gaps even more today. So I had all of these witnesses against me. And they obviously were not very good comments that were made; most of that was what was put in the media, although it was never confirmed by reliable sources. So even though it was in the media, it never even made it to the courtroom. And that’s what’s beautiful about this situation, because I have a provider who lives out of state. I’m not there. I can’t; I don’t know. I mean, at some point, I did realize that, oh my gosh, they think I’m a bad person. Like they think I’m doing something, you know, whatever. Um, but again, I didn’t really know what to do about it. But the funny thing is, when it was time to put up or shut up, I already had the documentation. People who are watching this or listening to the show, you can see it in the show notes. You will see that there was not a single bit of evidence; it was gossip if there wasn’t evidence to support the allegations against me. That being said, Brittany, it’s easy today to look at the outcome and say, Okay, she was facing 10 years. She got four months. Chances are this was blown way out of proportion, like this really wasn’t what it was. But you stood up at a time when that was very unclear. And a time when I was under investigation and there were a lot of statements made against him. When the COC came up with the idea of four months, not even less than 1% of the population went to prison for less than a year. Okay, so we weren’t talking about four months. incarcerations. Okay, when were we talking and the time that I was expected to serve, and you stood up?
Like I said, 31 people did it. Because, you know, I was interviewed by the FBI too. And so I’m not going to speak for what they were doing; I will say the line of questioning. In the end, it was a chaotic program. I admit it was a chaotic program. We’re going to talk about that, but she stood up. And so, on behalf of my family and the community, I’m able to still serve as a free woman. And I’ll just be half of my heart. I want to. You’re welcome. Thank you for telling the judge that I don’t even remember everything you wrote. Let me talk about how we got to you. And then I want to fill you in. I was told I wasn’t allowed to talk to you guys. Okay, after I pleaded guilty. Don’t talk, which I wasn’t, no, no shade, but 30 people talking about you as a Trine? You know, that’s very much so anyway. And I didn’t know what Simon said when she went on. Like I said, there weren’t a lot of people who were willing to stand up for me, to be honest. There. Yeah. So, um, but my son was going through my phone, and he bugged out to you. And I said, Oh, my God, and I tried calling again. And then I forgot to steal your hello. Oh, my God. So and then I remember—I just remember to be honest with you. Please speak mirage. Remember, it was rage, like I was; I was so upset. Because I didn’t. I hadn’t had any experiences in the investigation with people being supportive of me. That’s not totally true. There were people at the beginning, when this started, who were like, calling me trying to manipulate me and try to get money for me and saying, hey, you know, I’ll tell you whatever you need me to say. If you’re right, some of that was occurring. But, you know, obviously, I didn’t take them up on that. And with respect to you, though, I just, you know, it just never occurred to me. And you were just so kind; you were saying, Oh, my God, I’ve heard you know, how are you doing? How is this for you? You were just it; there was such a sense of fresh air that, and again, this is at the tail end of the investigation; I’m not still able to talk to you about the details, but you care. And I just want to know if you’d be willing to speak a little bit up or that or one? Why cared? And two, why would you not know the outcome? Be willing to take a stand and defend me?
Brittany Lanier
Yeah. The first thing you asked me was, Why?” Why did I care?
Dr. Connie Omari
What do you care? Like? Why? I mean, girl, you don’t know me from cannabis? Where are we friends?
Brittany Lanier
No, we met. I met you when you did my interview. Okay. And I saw you a few times communicating a lot in regards to work and work only?
Dr. Connie Omari
Email, maybe, and maybe a few phone calls.
Brittany Lanier
Right? Right. Nothing, nothing. Nothing outside of work Really, you know, even when the program, I think, was ending, it was pretty much just that you were in North Carolina and I was in Virginia. So it was kind of as if you needed me to do something in reference to the business. That was that, was it? That was it. And then, after that, I didn’t talk to you for years. Right. So it’s like, what I will say is, I just remember applying for the position at the company. And I remember you calling me for an interview. And I do remember the state of which my life was in at that moment; you know, I had just lost a job at a bad company that I would not have anything good to say about. I did. And I had two small children. So, you know, I needed a job, and meeting you and talking to you about my experience And you know, you decided I would be a good fit for what you were trying to do. And I just appreciated the opportunity, you know, and that’s not something I take lightly, even to this day, because, like I said, you never forget in life when you’re going through situations and the people, whether they’re friends or just people you come in contact with. We don’t know why we come into contact with these people. But I mean, you gave me a fair chance. and I appreciate that. And, I’m
Dr. Connie Omari
sure into Brittany.
Brittany Lanier
And I just think the importance of standing up in a time like that When I was called and asked about you, I didn’t have anything bad to say about you. And I think that that was important. You know, I feel like just as much as the negative comments were made or the negative interviews were had, I didn’t have anything negative to say. And I thought that was important. You know, I didn’t see you do anything wrong. The overall goal of what I think the program was doing was to help women. I mean, these women even had children. I mean, you were making sure that these women had a roof over their heads; I saw you move them from one smaller house to a bigger home. I mean, we would provide transportation. I have been on rides in the band with them to doctor’s appointments and other things for their children. I mean, in the world that we’re living in,
Dr. Connie Omari
the media says, and I just want to make this very clear, that no services were being provided. And that’s half. I want to make it very clear that half a million dollars that I pleaded guilty to were not half a million dollars that went in my pocket. But the half a million dollars that were generated from the company were in exchange for you all not doing anything. I just want to know if you want to speak on that. I mean, angry, but you know, just
Brittany Lanier
I mean, we ran groups daily; we were teaching these clients coping skills—I mean, going over their ADLs, with their medication management, making sure they were taking their meds. We have people in those houses that were still on each other’s medications. I mean, you had to have staff; that medication lockbox that was headed went missing at a time, you know, I mean, so I think that in all fairness, people don’t understand the stigma that comes with the population that we serve. And we help, despite the risk and jeopardy that we put our livelihood in. Because, absolutely, it’s always, you know, they don’t see that part; they don’t see when we’re making sure they’re getting to their appointments, we’re at CVS picking up prescriptions, on top of doing all those things, then we’re documenting and telling the story of what happened through that day in order to get paid.
Dr. Connie Omari
And that’s where the issue comes in. Okay, so let me just be fair. The root of the issue, the crux of the issue—and I’m not sure if I’ve filled you in on this yet—was when I started this program. The issue here is whether the people who are making the rules are saying this is the way the program needs to run, or whether the people who are actually running the program have a disconnect. The rules said that I could serve homeless people. Okay. What ended up happening was that when it was time for me to get reimbursed for serving homeless people, I, out of the kindness of my heart, decided to add a house on to it because I know, like you said, that for the homeless population, if you have to choose between where to lay your head and when to get behavioral health services, you’re always going to choose your basic need first, which is safety and security in a home. So I said, If I can add a home to this program, I am set. These clients are set. This is going to be a great combination. They ended up denying those claims and saying, Do those clients need to separate? The only way I could get authorization was if those clients were suicidal or demonstrated suicidal ideation. So what I did, rather than abandon the 18 clients, okay, and their children, was resubmit the claims, and bam, miraculously, all of them got suicidal, you know, ideation, whatever, on the claim on the form. And that was the lie. That was a false statement. That’s what I pleaded guilty to. I didn’t even plead guilty to Medicaid fraud. It was a false statement. And there was a reason why. Okay, so that’s the first issue. So the unfortunate domino effect of that is that you do have very high acute risk clients that you’re referring to, and because I am running a program, I will take responsibility for that, which I know is not stable. Okay. And I didn’t know at the beginning, when I’m getting the houses, when I’m getting the staff, when I’m getting the program, you know, the buildings, the supplies for the builders, all of the things that I need, such that my God and you get so many licenses and certificates and things like that. I wasn’t aware of all of the office supplies available at the time. But at some point, I didn’t know. Okay, wow. You know, like, I had to lie to get these claims cleared. I felt I chose to lie to get the claims cleared so I could continue to serve the clients, which I proved that I was doing, as you just indicated, as my records indicated, etc. And now we’ve got the day-to-day. So when you describe what you’re doing, Medicaid wants you to bill it as an in-service treatment. So in other words, they want you to take a homeless client who has no stability, okay? Is not used to structure and is not used to, you know, doing things in a structured, standardized way to say, Okay, I want you to sit them in this group all day and allow them to sit here. And anything you take away from that is going to be considered fraud because the services are supposed to be provided in the office. Now, that’s very unfair, because, again, like you said, they needed to get to their doctor’s appointment, they needed to have medication management, they needed to get their, you know, tag how their children get, teach them how to go grocery shopping, all those things that you were doing. So they write it up and put it in the news, like, We’re just sitting there doing nothing; we’re killing. I mean, y’all, sometimes y’all will complain to me, like, You know, I’m going on these miles on my car; I’m having to do this, you know, whatever. Because there was so much, I mean, we had anywhere from 18 to 20, something girls, you know, one time plus their children. So, um, and they made it look like a bad thing, as opposed to any type of shelter or transitional home that has a lot of people in it, like it’s not, I mean, you know, the funding, the resources, the ability to get them my own individual apartment, by half the main housing will go very far to be able to do all of that. So I just wanted to make that straight. And I wanted to thank you for making it clear that the best way to tell So let me ask you: did I ever ask you to blatantly, you know, defraud or do something with it with a malicious intent to defraud the Medicaid system? Are you familiar with me asking people to do anything like that? No. Did I hurt anyone? Did I threaten to take anybody’s children, harm them, or kick them out of the program? I mean, I will say that I made it. I mean,
Brittany Lanier
Now they were deserving of being kicked out of the program. No, you were very fair and gave them chance after chance. And to be part of your system,
Dr. Connie Omari
start part of your symptoms. You know, like when you’re not as
Brittany Lanier
some of those people to this day—how many years ago was that? They’re still doing the same thing. Where are the apps? Absolutely. They’re still cycling; they’re still. You might have one person out of 20. That might, you know, have gotten a little bit better, but I mean, I’m not sure what all of them are. I mean, some of them are even deceased. Now.
Dr. Connie Omari
Can you give me some initials? I know BH is right.
Brittany Lanier
Yes. And, um, ah, I don’t remember. What the baby? Yes,
Dr. Connie Omari
I hurt that girl. That one hurt me. That one. Right after, I will feel this; to the best of my understanding, this was a domestic violence issue. I think that is what our programs sought to do, like try to help and prevent those types of things from happening, because
Brittany Lanier
They did, and at the end of the day, they had a safe space to come back to. And if they were trying to get on track, you know, they could, if they were gone for the weekend or whatever, come back.
Dr. Connie Omari
fairly well in the way that it was presented by P. D., and I’m talking to a heavyset Caucasian. So I don’t want to, you know, although I’m no longer licensed, I don’t have the same level of confidentiality, but I am a morally and ethically grounded person. So I won’t be too specific. But you know what I’m talking about. And this particular person had an overdose. And for all intents and purposes, she died, like while she was out there, and I sat my team out—this is before you were on board—to find her, first of all, get her hospitalized, and third of all, save a bed for her to make sure that when she got out, she would be able to return.
Brittany Lanier
And she’s still doing the same thing. Sure, I’m sure.
Dr. Connie Omari
And it was presented to the feds, as if I did that solely because there weren’t enough homeless people out there that I could kind of just feel the band, like if my interest was jamming.
Brittany Lanier
on that thing. I mean, I don’t think that they have community stabilization programs out here that get these people a hotel for three or seven days. What is that doing? That’s not helping anything, is it?
Dr. Connie Omari
No, it’s not. And that’s where I was stuck. That’s where I was reconciled? I recognized that this program So by the time you come in, we’ve been running this program for a year on a very unstable foundation to begin with. And then I have you here, and amongst other people, I think he came at a time when there was a big transit. So let me tell you, I’m sure it was very risky for you to be like, Okay, well, I don’t quite know what’s going on. And it’s not quite right. But your encounters with me, as far as I can tell, were always positive, and they were always legit. And we’re just doing the best that we can with what is clearly not a program. I mean, you know, it’s so easy to blame the owner. Okay, because yes, it was my program. But what about success? I don’t care if I was right there in Norfolk, Virginia, and lived there. How successful could I have been when I proved to the court, which I was able to do, that what they said they were going to fund and what they ended up funding were not compatible? And to, you know, look at all the things that I was doing—you know, what I’m saying in terms of trying,
Brittany Lanier
I mean, they had to have food if their baby needed diapers. I mean, they had everything they needed. And these were not working individuals. None of them had a job. Now I’m trying to figure out where you were supposed to get the means to do what you were doing for them. From? I mean, because that’s outside? Yes, we’re food stamps that they’re beginning. And, you know, WIC, maybe, but nothing else.
Dr. Connie Omari
else. Nothing else. And I think they had a distorted perception of me. Because what I don’t know, I don’t want to speak on that. But that’s
Brittany Lanier
The thing is, well, I feel like I don’t know what type of distorted perception they could have had because you were the owner. That’s like, right now, if I walk into Target, I can’t talk to the CEO of Target. You know, I can talk to the manager that’s on duty, maybe a supervisor, a Shipley, but they didn’t have the type of access that they wanted to have to you, and when appropriate, yes, it was inappropriate. And that was the thing; it was kind of like, You owe them something because I’m using
Dr. Connie Omari
their Medicaid. Right.
Brittany Lanier
That’s, that’s, that’s this population, and that’s what happens. And that’s what people do not see. It doesn’t matter if, for example, we just use a hypothetical. Medicaid doesn’t want me transporting my vehicle. They said that I’m not a transporter. But even though Medicaid provides transportation, it doesn’t show up.
Dr. Connie Omari
So that part, I take my client that I’m supposed to be with for however many hours, God forbid, we get in a car accident, Medicaid and care, the client is going to try to sue me and my turn. Yes, they are. Yes, you know, so that people don’t talk about holding it over your head, like, let’s say, that never gets discovered. But you know, they want you to take them to go get groceries or see a boyfriend. I mean, sometimes they don’t even be something necessary, then now they have, well, you know, how you’ve been driving me in your car and riding me around you? You aren’t supposed to do that. You know? So if you don’t do this, then I’m going to tell you no. And so, you know, on the one hand, what really frustrated me in this investigation? Talking about exploitation, okay, I showed up for those girls, right? wrong or indifferent, Lionel made false statements to get it done whatever I showed up for them. And rather than allow that narrative to be what their investigators do, it’s their job to investigate. Understood, but they don’t know what support looks like, like everybody else that they’ve ever had. It’s their moms turn to turn their backs, and then they’re back there, you know, whatever. They don’t know what it looks like. And then there are the people who are saying, Oh, wow, did she do all this? Or did she, you know, whatever; oh, my god, I can’t believe she did this walk; you know, we’re going to prosecute her; you know, x, y, z. They don’t understand the population themselves. Because just because a person is on Medicaid, some of these women are smarter than me and you, and the investigation and
Brittany Lanier
very manipulative, and they think that Medicare Medicaid number is like an American Express number, you know, it is, and then that is their equivalent of getting what they want. You know, they look at me and say, Are you like, we’re a worker for them because of their insurance that they, I mean, their government-funded insurance, and it’s just unfortunate because I’m
Dr. Connie Omari
hearing a fair because the government plays into that narrative, saying this with all due respect, you know, on the one hand, if you really think they’re marginalized people who need support and need services, and so much so that you put billions of dollars aside to invest in these programs, then when an investigation shows up, don’t look at it. Why is it now all of a sudden, okay, they’re reliable, they’re competent? They know, and you know, these are trustworthy allegations. But at the same time, you don’t even think that they can. You can trust them on the streets on their own; you know, you’re making positions that say, Well, they need to be hospitalized, or things of that nature. So my thing is, you know, you’re in this is where the smartness comes in, in the educated and in the power and things like that. You’re using it to fit your narrative.
Brittany Lanier
That’s the thing: you will have people with diagnoses that clearly support the fact that they can say that I did not speak to you this morning at 10 a.m.And then tomorrow, I can say that I did. I remember I took my meds, and I said, Oh, I’m sorry. I did talk to Dr. Omar yesterday. Clearly, these diagnoses support these types of behaviors and the manipulation that these people are allowed to get away with; it’s no protection for you. And I can
Dr. Connie Omari
none. And so, what does it do? It takes me out of the game because now I can’t run a program. And then people read the articles. And they say, Oh, my God, well, I never want to run a program like that, because look what happened to me, or people might even take it a step further and listen to a podcast like this and see the real story, but then realize, Oh, my God, so I can end up in a program where I’m running a program that’s not set on a firm foundation and go to prison. So nobody gets help, the provider gets kicked out, and, as you say, the clients are still doing the same thing.
Brittany Lanier
They’re still doing the same thing. Yep. Who
Dr. Connie Omari
wins in this situation?
Brittany Lanier
No one. So at that point, it’s like, Is it even worth it? But this is the thing that we have a passion for and a calling for? Do. We love to help people, you know, because you will have, like I said, that one person out of so many that you were able to impact, or whatever the case may be. But you know, sometimes the risk is there. I mean, but it’s very important to be aware of that, you know, and the manipulation and the boundaries that we have to set. We have to set the boundaries.
Dr. Connie Omari
My attorney was really good at bringing that out. Yeah, you were really good at bringing that out during the investigation.
Brittany Lanier
You know, yeah, I mean, because you were the bad person, you had to shut your program down, and they had to leave that brand new house that they were living in. I mean, there were people there that were getting, you know, their SSI funds, or whatever they were doing. And they want to add a house that they’re not paying for anything in instead of getting stable and getting on their feet. They want to have a pool in the backyard and a garden. I remember
Dr. Connie Omari
When you sent me that whole photo, I was just like, I cannot. I don’t think that I even know about the pool. I can’t. For a while, I was in such a phase and in such a fog that I couldn’t remember. I don’t remember, but I do remember them. This is how malicious things were. On one occasion, they will, and I guess this must have been the pool. Now it makes sense. They left the water on because I’d have to pay the water bill. The water was on deliberately for like a week just to let the water just run and run and run. Because, as you know, I’m spending all their Medicaid money. So they might as well just
Brittany Lanier
okay. I mean, and when those are the things that I’m sure the prosecutors weren’t looking at, you know, I mean,
Dr. Connie Omari
They would just not focus on it. They got me to consent, let me tell you, and I’m going to save this dog. They made me okay. First of all, because I was fighting, that’s part of the reason why it was yours. Okay. Because, like, I was not me when I told you, Brittany, I fought like, I thought, okay, it’s like I said this. This was a seven-year investigation. Okay. Um, they eventually paid, because I didn’t think that I was breaking the law. That’s really what? Did you break the law? I fully thought and believed had it not been for all the gossip and all of the, you know, comments and all these types of things. I do believe I could have just been able to present the false statements at the beginning; this would have gone in a different direction. Again, I’m not blaming the investigators. I believe that, okay, the blood investigators got some negative information. It’s a job my taxes pay them to investigate crimes of this nature. So okay, fine. I can sit with that. Ah, bye. But at some point, you know, I’m trying to figure out what I need to do. What is the best way to resolve this issue? Hey, my attorney says, Look, because had I gone to trial, with all this stuff that you’re talking about, we would have been able to produce this evidence. We would have been able to show all the things I was doing, which I did show at my sentencing hearing, but the investigators would not have been able to prove that I was abusing or hurting these people, things like that, because none of that existed. And I actually had some
Brittany Lanier
of this stuff, even when they were asking me, and I’m not sure. I think I was talking to your lawyer. Yeah. Your lawyer, just I guess they had
Dr. Connie Omari
You were talking to my FBI agent. We had hired the FBI to work for us too. But
Brittany Lanier
They had been made aware of, I guess, some of the accusations and just some of the stuff they were asking me, and at the end of the day, I wanted the record to be clear. I’m a mandated reporter. I mean, yeah, so they’re just those things.
Dr. Connie Omari
We’re all like, if I was able to beat someone so abusive for almost two years, these people want to get a report, right? Sudden, these things
Brittany Lanier
were not happening. So I’m like, You know, it’s just so far-fetched.
Dr. Connie Omari
It is. And when we think about, you know, the allegations, and just like I said, the only thing that I pleaded guilty to, and I’m going to clarify that now, is the false statements, And making reference to those initial statements that I made at the very beginning of the program, when I hit at all women and children, I realized, Holy crap, this paperwork is not set up. And to not fulfill this, these requests will result in abandoning these women; I did lie on that form. The half a million comes into place because this is very unfair, but they have us a mandatory minimum. A mandatory minimum is a law that is put into place that basically says that for certain crimes, they carry a minimum incarceration, so that crime was actually aggravated identity theft. So obviously, okay, to be able to submit a claim, I used their Medicaid card, which was considered their identity, rather than go to trial, improve this, all these things that were saying, but for less money, because it would not have been haphazardly, I didn’t, you know, those claims and those services that he said were provided, like, we can’t sit here and just say, but I had to go with the half a million because going to trial, even though I don’t believe that they would have been able to sustain those allegations. And that was half a million dollars; I would have also been guilty of aggravated identity theft, which carries a mandatory two years of incarceration. And then they were going to tax me, and this is where I think I’m not pulling the race card. But hey, she’s smart. It was a lot of victims; you know, all of these things were adding up, which was my ending; the amount was going to be higher because it was, you know, more money. That’s when we’re starting to look at five, seven years, you know, and I say, Okay, no, kid can’t do that. So let me take the deal in the Africa piece. Well, see, they don’t say Africa; they say I’m billing for services while I’m out of the country. Okay, let me explain that. My husband, as we know, is from Africa; his grandmother died, and we went to a funeral. Okay, I am very negligent. All right, I still had to meet my building roster. And so I need it; you know, I’m still running a business. And I was not as careful as I should have been with respect to how I submitted those claims. That’s completely different than someone who’s criminally intentionally trying to defraud the system. Ironically, and this is what frustrates me, they knew at the time that notes were written by the provider in Virginia at the same time, so if I’m trying to defraud the system, why am I having somebody in Virginia write the notes and put them into the file, you know, at the same time? So that was very frustrating. All the rest of the stuff that was written about me and discussed about me online was just that—it wasn’t substantiated. And it was ridiculous, and there was no truth to it. And it just goes to show you how bad news spreads because even down to the media now, the media takes it; nobody bothers to even feel the article say that according to court documents, there are no court documents. It’s important to note that none of this, none of these allegations, make sense. And it was frustrating. It’s very, very frustrating. But Brittany, back to you. I have family members. I have family members who do not believe that my narrative of events, and again, you somebody who I’ve seen maybe 10 times in my whole life that’s been a real generous, um, you did. And again, I just really want to thank you. And I just want to say that God’s going to bless you. Because, again, I was the recipient. I know what it’s like when the investigator points that finger. And it’s saying, you know, in all fairness, some of the things that I was reading were, I do believe, I do believe the program director I hired before you came on staff, I believe, at some point, she tried to defend me, okay? And you can almost see that they won’t tell you what the investigators say. They will tell you what the witness says. You can almost hear her say Again, there’s no proof of this. But it’s almost like, as I’m reading it, it’s like the rescuer says, Okay, it’s either you or her; which one is going to go down? And then she just started spilling and saying all types of things that are inside her mouth, and I was just like, Oh, my God, here now. So, you didn’t do that. I believe it made all the difference and all the witnesses. Because they had all these statements that I was this horrible person, nobody was able to actually bring that up; you know, they weren’t able to stand up in court and do it. On the other hand, I know you weren’t physically there. But you did write a very compelling letter to the judge. She said she did read it, and my attorney made sure he said, Listen, pay close attention. I had 18 character references, by the way, but you were one of them. And then I had another staff member. And so yeah, so I am just very, very grateful for that.
Brittany Lanier
I’m really sorry that you had to go through all of that, because, like I said, from my interpretation of what you were trying to do for those women, it wasn’t anything malicious or anything. So fraudulent are so bad. I mean, because I think that everybody just sees the dollar signs of it, but they don’t see what goes into it. I mean, I can’t even imagine what you must have had to pay when they moved out of that house after they tore it up. I mean, you know, because they didn’t care about anything; they had no type of regard for anything. So I bet the people that are talking in sales, whatever they’re saying, couldn’t do it for a day, I’m sure. They wouldn’t even want that overhead or that responsibility, or staff calling you and saying, Hey, we need paper towels and toilet paper for the house, and you making sure that those things get taken care of. I mean, this was before Amazon and Instacart and all of that, so it’s just unfortunate. I am glad that you are definitely on the other side of this. And I know that because of cyber pricing, you will do great things and continue to do great things. And this will be a thing of the past. But your truth is important. And I understand that
Dr. Connie Omari
You Q. Thank you. I’m just curious: at any given time, did you think I was actually going to get incarcerated? Or did you? Did you bring it there?
Brittany Lanier
No, I think, um, and I’m not even sure, like you say, that they want to accidentally talk to you. Like, we weren’t supposed to talk or whatever. I just remember, you know, just praying for you after that. And you think, Um, I didn’t know because, like you said, I didn’t understand it was a long process. Because once I sent over my letter and said they did tell me that you were going to be sentenced, And then the date got changed or something.
Dr. Connie Omari
multiple times. That just let you know how good God is because I only got four months, okay? I pleaded guilty in September. A lot of times, my attorney told me that like 50% of the people go in and plead guilty. I didn’t get sentenced until July. So that would have been September, October, and November, almost a year later, all for a four-month sentence. Yeah, that would have been, but anyway, go ahead. You were saying, Yeah, no, no.
Brittany Lanier
That’s what I was saying. And then, after speaking to you, I think that you have probably begun to accept the fact that you will be going to jail for some amount of time, not hoping for a lot of time or whatever. And I just remember talking about you being home for the holidays, so you know, I just didn’t keep you in my prayers because, you know, as a mom, that just broke my heart. I couldn’t imagine. So outside of everything else I know as a wife, and you know, everything else that you do, I do, right? Yeah,
Dr. Connie Omari
It was it, but that, and I was telling my daughter today because she wants to act up in school, And I said, Listen, mommy fought. Yeah. I mean, that’s all I’m getting at.
Brittany Lanier
That’s what keeps you going when nothing else matters. And when, like you said, those people were telling you you weren’t, you didn’t win every day when you wanted to just give up and be like, whatever. Those two people really just, it’s like yeah, yeah, yeah,
Dr. Connie Omari
yeah. Ironically, the last investigation against me was done on the day that my son was born. June 27, 2019. Wow, y’all are trying to put me in prison while I am giving birth. And they know, they know, my dad
Brittany Lanier
is the government. That’s how they, you know, I feel like that is to say that. Yeah. And I think that’s the thing that people don’t see—you know, you were trying to make sure that these women could be with their children, and they just don’t care like this. I agree with that. Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Connie Omari
But like you said, um, and I’ll, I’ll take these for I took myself, I mean, I chose to run the program. Right? I’m like, Period, you know what I’m saying? Like, I can’t do one of the things God revealed to me the other day because God, even though it’s been a journey, is still working with me. But the government’s job is not to be nice. Their job is not to, you know, just be your friend or do the social injustice thing; their job is to prosecute people who break the law. Yeah, I got caught slipping. That’s really all I can say about it. I mean, criminal intent or not, that is what happened. And it’s been very hard. So. So one thing I will apologize for is that I hear you saying, You know, you needed a job, and you were trying to stabilize yourself. And I do take responsibility for bringing you on to something that I knew I didn’t have the foresight to know in like this, you know, and I’m saying, like, I had no idea that because I was under investigation, then you remember, I mean, it was at the state level, but they were constantly trying to get the state to know, I believe, I’m not going to say this, but that it wasn’t set up consistently. That’s why they kept letting me read all the reviews and stuff. And they would tell me what to do. I’d fix it, and I’d be able to move on. You know, in fact, about it: the trial was the last corrective action plan; it said no violations. You know what I’m saying? So they were working with me, but, um, you know, it’s just that I recognize that, at some point, people were relying on me. I was relying, of course, on the government for the program. But I just apologize for my role. And what I said in my allocution, which was distorted for the sake of immunity as well, is that the allocation is the piece where you’re apologizing in court. In case you didn’t know that, I didn’t know that. So I’m not sure. But I do take responsibility for the fact that I ran a program that was not stable. And people’s livelihoods were dependent on that program. People’s stability was dependent on that program. And I just apologize for really not knowing what to do. I will say, even today, that I abandoned them, which I eventually will say I abandoned, and we put transition pretty much every day. Anybody likes high and dry, right? But eventually, we did have to close shop. And that was hard. Because that’s not what I wanted, I went into the field because I wanted it to help them, not because I wanted it to run into a problem and just realize, you know, I can’t do it anymore. But, um, but so for any, you know, destabilization that might have caused you in terms of having to get a new job, or, you know, probably you were dealing with some uncertainty, you know, as the company is coming to a close and things like that. I apologize for that. That was never intentional.
Brittany Lanier
I know that that was not intentional, but it just seemed best at the time. Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Connie Omari
I don’t have any other choice. But yeah, so thank you for trusting my vision. Thank you so much for being a part of it. I mean, Brady, I’ve heard great things about you. You know, I mean, when I did see clients and stuff, they would tell me, you know, all the things that you guys were doing, and generally, most of it was positive. That’s why I was so surprised that the statements were so bad, because, you know, I didn’t know these things were going on. And anyway, you know, you gave it your all. And I don’t know why that was so big of you. You know, and I think, and I won’t say too much, but one of your colleagues, K, paid? No, I’m talking about the director. So you know, because I was just, and I’ll just say this because I was just talking to my husband about it. I said,Well, Brittany, you and Brittany came in, you and Kate, even at the same time. But Capy’s response was completely different. Like I will say, as soon as they were from me reading a paper, obviously I wasn’t there. But her response was, I knew she was a fraud. I knew it. I knew it. Like it was just very, very big. But I will say, I’m sure she heard that I was, and seeing the way the program was being run and, you know, people coming in and questionable, maybe paperwork and things like that, Daniel was saying, Well, you know, maybe she, you know, thought that that was the case. I mean, that’s, you know, she didn’t have the, I guess, mental clarity to look beyond saying, Okay, well, is Connie, though, trying to promote that, or is that just
Brittany Lanier
what’s happening? Because that was just kind of happening. Right?
Dr. Connie Omari
Correct. Thank you. And so, um, yeah, thank you for just taking it that extra step. And just saying, Okay, there’s one loop for a program not to be running very well, was another thing—to blame an individual who’s really also a part of that same system. I’m not just part of the summer.
Brittany Lanier
You have a program? Sorry, you have programs I hear where there will be providers, where they will, like you, don’t pay their employees, and they won’t make things right. I mean, there was never a moment where I felt like if something was wrong, I couldn’t contact you, or even your husband, and it would be handled. So I guess to me, that’s where I don’t get the whole, you know, the whole because if you were waking up every day and just saying, Hey, I’m going to fraud, I’m going to defraud the government, I want to do this, I don’t really think you would care about it. You know, I would be a small problem to you, you know, it would be, but, you know, you weren’t, like out of reach, out of touch when we needed something, you were there. I mean, you were on top of even our documentation; if we didn’t have something, you would send us an email. Very professional, as far as not texting caught you with an email and letting us know what was needed. I mean, I just don’t get that whole aspect of it. And for me to be there at the same time as some of these other people, I’m just not sure what their perception of things looks like, you know, and then they could have left,
Dr. Connie Omari
He could have lost. That’s my point. Why are you still with me? Similar people stayed with me. One person stayed with me up until the very, very end, so about the end of the 20 months, like 17 months, and she was one of the biggest witnesses against me. And I just like
Brittany Lanier
I say about you.
Dr. Connie Omari
You’re the person there. I wasn’t. On the one hand, they say, Okay, well, she wasn’t there. Okay. She didn’t care about the clients. Cool. So when I tried to do things, she said, Oh, she’s micromanaging them. She’s controlling them. They said I had computer cameras, telling you all to commit fraud and making sure you were doing the wrong thing. I think by the time you came, I’m sure Did you see any cameras? No. Yeah, the cameras, because I had cameras at the very beginning. They told me that that violated their rights. So I had to remove those cameras after, like, the first month or so. So, I get these bad-lens cameras in with the purpose of making sure that you’re committing a crime, but this stuff doesn’t make any sense. Like, and so I mean, if
Brittany Lanier
If that were the case, you could just come there and sit there and make sure that we were doing what you said we were doing, or how about this?
Dr. Connie Omari
Why go, and this is what my attorney said, why go through the extra burden of getting you a house, trying to get you to and from your appointments, getting a vehicle, I mean?
Brittany Lanier
a whole 18-passenger van, these ladies had one or two. Thank you. We had to do it at some point. Yeah.
Dr. Connie Omari
Thank you. Thank you. So yeah, multiple drivers. I even had to pay somebody extra at times to stay at the house in the evening.
Brittany Lanier
in the evenings to make sure they were getting their math and stuff done when they were still in demand. Yes, I’m still trying to control substances. So, I mean, that was your fault, too, though. I guess.
Dr. Connie Omari
I wouldn’t have had it there. You know, they—I mean, everything that went wrong And you know, I think my vision was too big for my resources, and I did see this holistic wraparound program that was perfect because my dad was homeless; he died in a homeless shelter. Okay, so I am very, very, very familiar with the psyche of a homeless individual. And I’m not trying to stereotype; I mean, really great people. You know what I mean? They can be. I mean, there are bad people in every bunch, right? There are people who are wealthy and are not homeless-made jerks, and you have homeless people who are awesome people, but the street culture and the resources and the way that you need to support a group of homeless people She’s extremely different. And they never even acknowledged that homelessness was ever even a part of what I’m supposed to be serving, which is, that’s the issue. You know, you can’t, on the one hand, write it down, but then say, Well, I’m not going to let you run the program to meet their needs; I’m not going to be resourceful; and I’m not going to make it look like I’m being arrogant, like I’m better than the government. I don’t know better than the government, but I do not know about homelessness, and I do know about mental illness. And I know that a homeless person who is not used to any type of structure doesn’t have stability, which is part of their symptom and part of the reason why they’re homeless. saying to them, No, I don’t get money from Medicaid to fund you. You know, eff off. That didn’t seem like the right thing to do. No, here we are. Seven years later, ready? This is all this podcast talking about it today. You didn’t have any final things you wanted to say. Or
Brittany Lanier
I just want to say that, if you know, if I were ever given the opportunity or anything, like I said, I would not have anything negative to say about you or your vision; I definitely could see what you were trying to do. And I’m not sure I can ever understand what it must have felt like to see the statements that those 31 people made about you. But I think you’re a great person. And like I said, I do believe you will do great things. You’ve survived this far. And I don’t think that God brought you this far to, you know, not keep things going for you. So I just wish you the best of luck in all your future endeavors and that your next project will be just as big, and you know, blast, you’re on it. This is my next project.
Dr. Connie Omari
And I just want to say for the record, you are right with me, okay? And I truly mean that, like, if you need any, you don’t. Ya, people, it’s hard to stand up; it’s hard to be the only one. You know, I’m the only one running this program. First of all, that’s another thing that made it very hard. It’s not like I had other providers that I could say, Hey, you know, aren’t you having this problem? So I can speak to the fact that it’s very, very hard to be the only one standing up for a very difficult issue. But then, Brittany, you also did the same thing, because, like I said, without even knowing what the problem was, you spoke from what you saw, forgot what you heard, forgot what, you know, whatever, and that’s just hard to do. That’s really, really hard to do, Brittany. And so, if there happen to be witnesses who are listening to this who threw me under the bus, to save yourselves, I will say, Um, even to you, you know, I get it, and I forgive you. You know, I have like, it’s not going to help me to continue to hold Harbor on to the pain; it may hurt. I’m not gonna lie; it was very, very hard to read. Just because, you know, I did try very, very hard. And some of the statements were either, I mean, some of them completely, some of them are so bad. I couldn’t really tell who said what; for a lot of the statements, I don’t even know who said them. But okay, like, so far, I was a little bit easier with the staff because they had to give the identifying information. And so I was able to see, you know, for instance, that this person went to this university, and I could go back in the staff record and say, Oh, that’s right, this is that person, you know, but anyway, you know, I believe that that skill is going to take you very far to Brittany, like, you don’t have to, just because a person says something doesn’t mean it’s true. You always follow your gut; you always follow your instinct, and I do believe that there were statements that were made about me if people really checked in with what they believed to be true based on their interactions with me. But you know, people can’t do that. And when you have an FBI investigator and you’re faced with a picture that’s saying, Hey, this program is clearly chaotic, you’re either a part of it, you know what I mean? So whatever you want to get, I think it is hard to find your voice. You found your voice. I think it made all the difference. Like I said for four months, this was Wheaton. This was never part of the conversation, like we were thinking a minimum of two years. But more along the seven-year range, and your ability and your desire to just, you know, represent a person from the actual experience that gave a completely different name have a narrative that went so far as to speak to the judge. He really did admit the world to me. And I think you’re welcome if that’s it. I just want to thank you and, just like I said, wish you the best and let you know that, again for the record, she’s alright with me. Okay, I know we don’t talk, but you know, we obviously have each other’s numbers. Text me or call me. You know, whatever. I’m here for you. Because you were here.
Brittany Lanier
Thank you. Same here as always. Hi. All right.
Dr. Connie Omari
Thanks, everybody, for tuning in today. It’s been a pleasure to interview Miss Linear, and we’re going to let you go. Peace and blessings. That’s it for today. Dr. O