Dr. Connie Omari
Hello, hello hello and welcome to the black Marriage and Family Therapy matters podcast, where we connect black families to black therapists. Today’s guest is Dr. Jasmine Ri. Hi, Dr. Reid.
Dr. Jasmin Reed
Hi. Thank you for having me.
Dr. Connie Omari
Thank you for coming. Y’all are in for a treat today. We have been talking for the last 20 minutes. And I just decided we need to press record because Dr. Reid is a wealth of information. She really is, and I’d like to tell you a little bit more about her now. So Dr. Jess Murray has been a longtime proponent of advocacy work for communities of color for over 10 years. She is a licensed psychologist with a wide breadth of experience in mental health services. On a mission to provide underrepresented communities of color with quality mental health services, Dr. Reid launched Ubuntu. Ubuntu, Ubuntu psychological services in 2020 to service these communities with clinicians that look like them? Yes. With a culture-first business model, you vote for psychological services that provide a space for people of color to have their cultural nuances understood. The following year she created Dr. Jay Reid’s Wellness Connection Collection. Sorry, we say that Dr. J. Read’s Wellness Collection helps individuals get the most out of life by offering wellness coaching and mentorship sessions, especially business entrepreneurs. She also offers a catalog of various products such as journals, weighted blankets, mugs, and more. Prior to launching Ubuntu Psychological Services, Dr. Reid had extensive experience working in government institutions as a mutual healthcare provider and advocate, assisting in her quest to aid the rehabilitation of offenders. That’s helpful. Beyond her background in law enforcement psychology, Dr. Reid has worked with a variety of populations, such as geriatrics, foster youth, couples, immigration, and chronic and severe mental health conditions. She has also taught doctoral, master’s, and bachelor’s-level courses in psychology, human development, early childhood education, social sociology, and criminal justice. in addition to her current business endeavors. Dr. Reed serves as an assistant professor in the Department of Social Work at California Baptist University. Dr. Reed provides educational instruction to students attending the Master of Social Work program and the doctor of social work and psychology in marriage and family therapy programs. Furthermore, she has provided and spearheaded workshops on a wide range of topics, such as higher education, women’s empowerment, Christian counseling, diversity issues, and race within the correctional system. Committed to her pursuit of serving individuals, couples, and families of color. Dr. Reid hopes to continue the foundational work and create a healthy dialogue surrounding mental health. Wow. First of all, just let me say thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Where do we start what you’re doing? You’ve done so much. What? What got you into doing all this?
Dr. Jasmin Reed
My God, right. You know, it’s funny. People often ask me, How did you get into psychology in general? I’m so thankful. One, I had a desire to do something outside of how we normally think about healing. And I’m saying normal as pertaining to the black community because I grew up where you went to church about everything, right? And parts of me went to schools where I had Eurocentric friends. And I was seeing that they were like, I wasn’t there. Right. So therapy was only associated with my friends when they had a social worker. Right. You had this negative connotation where people were, like, trying to avoid a therapist. Right, right. I started to see other people using it as a resource. And it was different, and they were excited about it. And I was like, Oh, this is interesting, because we just go to church and I pray about it. And we lay at the altar, right?
Dr. Connie Omari
Which was different. But, you know,
Dr. Jasmin Reed
I started to recognize that God uses us in different capacities, right? So what was different about mental health than any other medical field or any other thing where he’s going to utilize you in different ways, and there are different ways to be able to operate from a healing perspective? And, honestly, mental health was so creative, and ask that right, it was one of those few things that you had to do the work on? Are you able to heal from the spray? Absolutely. Which is a different perspective; everything else you can do where you want to, but my client can only go so far if I don’t work on me, right? I need to work on myself. So, you know, I started the journey thinking about the aspects of, you know, how can I be able to resonate with people who look like me? Who understood, you know, the difficulties that they can experience, who understood that the African diaspora looks different regionally and globally, and who could ultimately make sure that we as people could get to a place where we were trying to do the work on ourselves?
Dr. Connie Omari
Absolutely. Amazing. Amazing, amazing. Well, thank you. I’m not sure if you were saying this; you don’t have to disclose. But were you making reference to the fact that you’ve also had a therapist?
Dr. Jasmin Reed
Oh, absolutely. Okay,
Dr. Connie Omari
I have to, you know,
Dr. Jasmin Reed
I love that.
Dr. Connie Omari
I love that, because I actually get frustrated because I’ve had colleagues who would never get a therapist who is a therapist, and I think that’s so wrong on so many different levels. So,
Dr. Jasmin Reed
absolutely. Um, so you know, our programs—my master’s program requires us to have one; our doctorate program requires us to have one; I remember, even in my doctorate program, we were required to have about 40 hours, but I’m doing three years—there are some things we need to work out.
Dr. Connie Omari
Let’s keep this thing going. Doesn’t change; you know, there are periods,
Dr. Jasmin Reed
I think therapy is a resource. So there are periods in life, like when I recently had therapy and my grandmother died, who was the matriarch of our family. So that was a period that I needed to have someone there to help me guys through the part of transitioning in the space of, like, I am now that person that everybody’s going to come to who has passed on those things. And I’m like, the whole three to therapists. You know, when you start to take all those responses, it’s a different feeling, right? So you know, being able to sort out those things was important for me, but also being able to understand that I have to model those things for my students, I have to model those things for my clients, and I have to model those things for my employees, where there are times and periods that we all need to do our healing. And growth means that I have to do work all the time, right? If I don’t want to stay stagnant, Absolutely. And it’s hard for therapists, so we’ve got to take our hats off. Yes, we do.
Dr. Connie Omari
Yes, we do. Well, you know, you’re bringing up such a very important thing. Because, you know, as therapists, we’re trained a certain way to work with mental health from a different perspective, but we also have to care about the whole wellness perspective. And that’s why you’re here today, because we want to talk about how, yes, therapy is very, very important. But sometimes there are other components, and if you don’t mind me being transparent, by the time this is released, I will have been more transparent about my legal issues. But when I was being prosecuted, I had a therapist, and unfortunately, the press part of the prosecution wants access to my records. And I obviously did not want to disclose that because I had a lot of personal information that I did not want to, you know, have access to, so I had to stop attending therapy. And so I’m in the most stressful period of my entire life. And the one thing that I have relied on forever, like I’ve loved the concept of it my entire life, I couldn’t access it. So I had to go into different areas of wellness. So that’s when I started praying more and meditating more and exercising differently. I would take these walks in nature, but I incense. I’m going to have my instance right here. I’m having one right now. But I’m a big proponent of things like aromatherapy and oils and stuff like that. Journaling, reading, all those things So when I see you, you know, we just share with the audience that you have been working on your self-esteem, so let’s kind of talk about how important it is to have those other avenues in addition to therapy because, you know, my case has been prosecuted, but some people cannot afford therapy. Some people don’t have access to a therapist; like you said, you know, y’all are black; you relate to these people, but a lot of people have never even seen a black therapist or known that we exist. So how can they utilize wellness resources?
Dr. Jasmin Reed
to help? Absolutely. So I think one of the things that, you know, I understand there’s a shortage of therapists, for sure if you’re black, right?
Dr. Connie Omari
But what percent? Yeah, yeah. percent. And we’re talking about
Dr. Jasmin Reed
Psychologists, we’re probably looking at, like, 1% of the psychologists are going to be African American, right? Those of us who are out there, who are really going to be able to take one, and there’s only so much work we can take on, right?
We’re going to be able to keep ourselves saying that, but the other piece is that we know therapy is a resource that is not meant to be forever. So there’s got to be a space about how we actually incorporate things into our personal lives to make sure that wellness continues once we separate, right? So once we have some good coping skills, we are able to identify what are stressors, what are things that are impacting us, and what are triggers, right? How do we actually continue with those things? I love a lot of the things you talked about, but because those are daily practices, the difficulty around wellness is being consistent.
And people right now, especially from this kind of social media perspective, have difficulties being consistent because we don’t have the time, nor do we know how to kind of schedule our space in that way to be able to make time for ourselves. And
Dr. Connie Omari
Not only absolutely, and that’s why I’m glad you mentioned social media, because back in the day, it was, you know, hey, you had to work these long hours, you know, two, three jobs. And that’s how it was with my parents. So I got to see them, you know, doing a lot of self-care stuff because they were so busy trying to provide, but now just be an angel have so many distractions, you know, we got to watch Netflix, we got to watch, he seemed to let us tick tock challenges, you know, stuff like that. And by the time you know, you’re ready to work on yourself. So you go to sleep. You haven’t had time to, let alone know if working is a big deal, and you have family and stuff. We still have these issues. How can people find time to work on themselves? I mean, I grew up thinking that wasn’t important. Right? Emily? Okay, go ahead. Sorry. No, no,
Dr. Jasmin Reed
I mean, I definitely think I grew up the same way. Right? Like we were modeled, for sure, by grandparents and parents, you take care of all these other things, but you don’t take care of yourself, especially as black women, right? In terms of our being able to take care of everyone in Alaska, we served ourselves last. But now I often think about why we’re in a different space and why we can’t afford to do that anymore. Because it has detrimental consequences at this point. And not even just for our mental sanity, but our physical health, right? Like, we’re seeing black people in general die earlier from heart attacks, strokes, and at a more frequent rate. So there are a lot of things that are going on that we know about, and this is all the emotional stuff that can kind of impact those faces because we’re stressed. So when I’m really big, I love working out, not necessarily because it makes me smaller, although there’s a physical aspect to it. Recognize this; there’s a part about how we have to recognize how we function. I recognize that culturally, it’s just within my family norms. Heating was a way that we kind of emotionally responded to things. You eat when you’re happy, you know, when it’s joyous, you eat when we’re celebrating, you know, you eat for every depression, right?
Dr. Jasmin Reed
Like, always, like debates around food, right? And so, one of the things that I recognized was that this is so ingrained into the culture that I don’t know how much of that I really want to change. However, I can make some slight changes in that for the other pieces; I can bring back some of that that was actually working out right, and we still have to have good nutrition and bring back some of that. Well, guess what? I’m very busy. So what do I do for my schedule to be able to make that sense? So that means I wake up earlier, right? That’s how I was going to ask. Yeah, yeah, really, I wake up before like every day, like the only
Dr. Jasmin Reed
People you know, a lot of people are talking about how you do it, but I put myself first in the beginning of the day to make sure I’m taking care of myself so that I can take care of the rest of the world. So four o’clock is my time, so I wake up at four oclock. I have a trainer I meet when I go there, so I have from four to seven thirty. That is me. And then when I get home, the neck can take care of everybody, right? So wherever I am now going to be able to cook, maybe I can do this. I’ve been through all those, and they’re all going to be there. Right? So I’m very regimented with my time. And that means that sometimes I’m not going to everything. That means I’m scheduling out time for names, like I have to schedule things out with my husband. We were very much like, Hey, Fridays are our day, right? Like we hang out on Fridays because we’re busy, right? But that means that there’s a part about how we function that means that we have to have a lot of resistance, including being able to pretty much lean towards anything that might be a distraction. And I think the hardest part is that because there are so many distractions, you have to know what your values are at that moment. And what’s most important for you is what’s most important for me at this moment: keeping my health and my mindset. Correct, right. Anyone who’s around me knows that, right? So I don’t have time for any drama; I have time for a lot of different things. But what I do have time for is making sure I’m saying it so I can make good decisions, not only for my family but also for my business, because my business also depends on me being healthy. Absolutely,
Absolutely. You can really tell when the person in charge is not in a good space. True, and the same holds true for our children. and the same for our marriages. You know, like, when I was being prosecuted, like, you did not want to talk to me, or anybody wanted to talk to me if I didn’t have my own time, because I didn’t want to talk to third situations, when life circumstances could just be too much, too heavy. Etc. Um, so that was really, really great wisdom and insight. Um,
Dr. Connie Omari
Do you ever feel one thing you spoke about And I really think I want you to elaborate on this: you talked about how valuable your time is, and you know, in terms of carving out space for yourself, you mean saying no to some other things. As women, especially black women, we are the nurturers, we are the caregivers, we are the, you know, your grandmother, who’s now passed the baton on to you? How do you deal with that conflict,
Dr. Jasmin Reed
You need the time for yourself. And then, I would assume, after yourself, it’s your husband and your children? You know, you have other things to consider. You’ve got the business and things like that. But there’s like a priority, a hierarchy, and all of this. How do you make sense of, you know, how do you say no? That’s how I would say no, because sometimes, you know, we don’t know how to do it.
Dr. Jasmin Reed
So I’ve gotten really comfortable. And as we age, I think some of those
Dr. Connie Omari
older, you’re like, oh, you know, like, you know, like,
Dr. Jasmin Reed
worried about aging. I know people don’t want to age. But, you know, I think there are some beautiful aspects about you as you grow into yourself and as you are. And you’re like, I’m not resistant, or any of that. And I’m not here to appease anyone; how you feel about me does not matter. I feel good about myself, right, and of course I’m climbing; I don’t want to be a jerk, right? But I’m still like, You know, I’ve got to put me and my family first, right? And so that means that, you know, people are clear about my time. So you’re going to have to respect my time. And that’s important. But also me having my time myself. So I tell my husband, you know, we’re very clear about that, like in the morning. I like to work out in the morning. So Mike, hey, these are the days I’m working out. What are the days you want to work out? What were the days you got together? Right? What does that look like for us? Right? He’s very, I have, you know, I was something I have led. I always say I have the best partner. Well, I guess the best partner in the world because he doesn’t feel that it’s any competition or anything. It’s like, How can we support each other in this? Yeah, yeah. These are things I’m troubled with, and we can work in collaboration in that space. And that’s a wonderful feeling to have someone. Oh, absolutely. That. I mean, just finding myself in these things makes me feel good, and this is also part of that. That’s one aspect. The other part is that I also feel like my friends and colleagues understand that my boundaries are high, and I start off with really clear boundaries about those things. So, for example, I teach at a university. I’m very clear about what I can do, even when I can’t, and that’s a heartbeat. Even if the university is pushing towards something, I set my boundaries very clearly from the very beginning about what my time is allowed to do. And for the most part, the university is very supportive about it; they encourage us to have outside activities and encourage us to have outside businesses to be able to flourish. But I think one of the things that people have difficulties with is their fear of saying no. Saying no is going to mean that people are going to either not like them as much or not want to engage with them. And what I found is the exact opposite; people just understand that this is what you do. So people will text me, Hey, like, today, and someone’s like, Hey, you’ve got time to do this today. Or if not, I can make time for another day. They’re very clear about my boundaries and what I have going on. When I say that, we have to develop better boundaries and be able to really lean into wellness. So making sure that people understand that this is my max, I’m not willing to lose that to accommodate in some of those spaces, right? And that’s hard because we have to practice that. And we have traditionally not been taught it when we have been taught it. Or if we do do it. Oftentimes, what is conveyed to other people is that we’re angry. It’s exactly
Dr. Connie Omari
What I was going to do was ask a follow-up question. So we’re humans; we have to be careful about how we do it, or
Dr. Jasmin Reed
Yeah, and you know, so it’s Interesting, I have a doctoral student who I was working with, and she was talking about, like, you know, how do you work with people? Or how do I work with people when they think I’m angry? Right. And I was like, That’s interesting, because, you know, I know where you’re at. But the other piece about me is that I’ve accepted that that means nothing to me. So if I’m angry, what’s wrong with me and being angry? That’s a primary emotion.
Dr. Jasmin Reed
Right? So that way, you know, I have not allowed people to put off certain things for me. And I think because the stigma is so heavy, so many of us are like, I’m just trying, I’m just trying, I’m just trying, right? I’m just trying to be able to be in these spaces. But then that means that we have to think about, Is this space safe for me? And how do I move to a space that may be safer for me to actually be myself and authentically meet? And that’s a difficult space because, like I get in corporate America, the different spaces of America in general don’t allow for black women to beat themselves up, and oftentimes black women are just able to assert what they have been owed. But nevertheless, it is always combated. With this aggressiveness, or combated list, the way we’re displaying ourselves means that we’re more masculine, but that doesn’t mean that necessarily; it may mean that we are asserting our boundaries. And that is okay for a surrogate mandri, especially because everybody else was sort of labeled in that way. And so I always tell people if it means I’m aggressive or angry, and because I told you, you know, that’ll be there.
Dr. Connie Omari
now. I’m trying to get my thoughts around this. On the one hand, we’re saying that it doesn’t necessarily mean that we are angry. On the other hand, are there historical implications that suggest, okay, I’m angry?
Dr. Jasmin Reed
Here’s the thing: I think where I’m at is that it’s okay to be okay. What do you know about whether I think there’s a difference between people displaying or typecasting us as angry because we didn’t do what they wanted? Or we’re not saying with everyone, that’s typically where the frustration comes from, which makes you angry, right? You made me upset because I’m not doing it, right? tasked me in a negative way because you didn’t like my answer, right? That’s very different from the fact that I’m emotionally anchored because of something else, right? But I think there’s a space for black women to need their fullness. But I also think that we have to have the support of others to be able to be in that space. But it starts with us, right? We have to be able to support each other in those spaces. And sometimes, you know, that’s often not seen because we also have bought into a Eurocentric perspective about how we should display ourselves in the world as well. So sometimes if I am more explicit, another person may think that I am displaying myself in an angry way, and because they have indoctrinated themselves with this Eurocentric perspective, that might be uncomfortable for them. So I think we have to learn how to be comfortable in the media about how we express ourselves because we are colorful people.
Dr. Connie Omari
Absolutely. Absolutely. We are, yes, we are. What I wish black families knew about wellness
Dr. Jasmin Reed
One of the things I really would love for black families to really, really lean into is understanding that your journey and wellness are not going to be linear. So anytime we’re talking about progression, it doesn’t go straight. It’s not like that. And so we’re going to have ups and downs because we have been trained over generations to do things in a certain way that may be counterproductive to our spaces of being able to value ourselves and the other pieces of wellness when it comes to wellness in black families. I think it’s important for people to be able to think about how if I do the work for myself, that distance will set up the next few generations. Oh, my
Dr. Connie Omari
Gosh, what did the psychologist say the other day? What did she say? One of the biggest investments you can make in your family to break generational curses is investing in yourself. You know, like, invest in yourself so that you can give that to yourself? Yeah. Oh, yeah, I love that. I love it. It’s
Dr. Jasmin Reed
hard for people to do because, like, I got stuck with all the work. And now you want me to do the work? Like, why should I be responsible for
Dr. Connie Omari
exactly that part? Um, why what? Huh? So let me get feedback on that. Where do you see black families struggling the most with wellness? Like, why is it so hard?
Dr. Jasmin Reed
A couple of things. I think that black families are struggling because, from an economic standpoint, we have not had the luxury of amassing. And so when we see that the majority of black people are not in phosphorus, Right? There’s a narrative that goes around, but we’re not impoverished. No, we’re not. We’re, quote unquote, middle class. Right. But a good portion of you know, and we know that most of the people who have degrees are black women, like a good portion of a student, am I right? But the other piece is thinking about the fact that it’s the access to resources that makes it difficult for us, right? That resources that actually understand our cultural nuances are difficult for us, which keeps us in the same space, right? It’s the systematic things that impact us, which then impact our ability to really lean into wellness. So oftentimes, those are some of the barriers. But I do think that one of the hardest things for us is that we just don’t have the same connections in our community as other communities. So when I talked to my other friends, like I have a friend who’s Armenian, she told me, You know, we have this person in our community, this person, this really everybody knows how to get connections. Yeah. Yeah, that’s not where we’re at. Right? There’s a disruption, by design, that has impacted our ability to be in that space, right? But culturally, we’re collectively collectivist people. But we’re in a place that has disrupted that for us. So it makes it a little difficult for us to really lean into wellness. We don’t have the same kind of communal perspective that we might have in other areas. But the other pieces I’m thinking about, like, you know, we talk about resources, whether we’re talking about mental health, health, or all of these different things. They’re their own, like there’s their own racism and prejudice that operates in the system.
Dr. Connie Omari
That’s so true. And that, oh my gosh, yes.
Dr. Jasmin Reed
And that’s hard, because maybe I have the resources. And I’m just trying to do it, right? I heard somebody on Tiktok say this or that, and I got the services. And then I go to these people, and they don’t value me because they haven’t taught through a traditional lens that doesn’t see me as valuable. That makes it even more difficult to really lean in. And so I try, but it doesn’t work out. It doesn’t feel good. And then I’m like, I know what this is. Like. Do it right, yeah. So
Dr. Connie Omari
Those things also impact us. And it’s not always other people who are doing this. Oh no. Sometimes people are just appointed by their black therapist. Yeah, no. And that is what really gets me, like, We’re not doing our homework, you know? Um, so yeah, yeah.
Dr. Jasmin Reed
Yeah, that’s a harder one. But you gotta, you know, always say, you gotta remember, black therapists are also mostly trained in a syndrome-centric injury perspective. So they’re doing only what they’ve been taught. And unless they do some additional work around how they need to navigate with the people who look like them and also what feels good for them, as well as learning some additional business things because we also don’t have the resources and spaces to correct it, Then it goes, and it can be quite damaging to what we do to our own community.
Dr. Connie Omari
Absolutely. Um, gosh, you just said a whole word. Because that really speaks to my situation. But let’s move on, and what are some myths about wellness that you’d like to debunk for today?
Dr. Jasmin Reed
I’m trying to think, um I think one of the things I would think is that, you know, when we talk about wellness, it’s not going to be a one-size-fits-all thing; it doesn’t look the same for all of us, and some of us are going to have to focus on our emotional wellness perspective. So most of us don’t have to focus on our physical health; some of us are going to have to focus on, you know, the reality of our current actual health. So we have to think about what we actually need in that wellness space, right? What are the kinds of things that we create for ourselves to be able to think about having a good life?
Dr. Connie Omari
Oh, I don’t know if that’s my
Dr. Jasmin Reed
face. And that’s the difficulty. Think about why. Just one aspect of it; it’s a
Dr. Connie Omari
yeah, absolutely. Um, I’m going to pause. Okay, I’m sorry, I think my internet kind of got unstable. That was weird. But I have to say, I’ve heard that’s so true. You know, we just don’t; sometimes I just think we just don’t know what we don’t know, you know, and we have to get out here and no, and we’re in an era now where there’s just so much information. But I think, especially when we’re talking about the black community and black women, we’re coming into these situations in the circumstances as broken people. And so, you know, um, I just think of, you know, I don’t want to put the body on blast, but our focus now, because our focus likes it, let’s say you grew up, okay, I think about when I was incarcerated, okay? And what I really, really, really, really struggled with was seeing these black women who came from adverse circumstances and worked their way up. And for whatever reason, something went wrong on the journey, and they only ended up in the federal prison system. And it’s like, but this person’s intent was not to do what they got, what they were accused of; they were really just trying to be real. I have to think about myself. I mean, my intentions were very, very noble. They were very, very nice. I wanted to serve these people, even after I realized the program was not set up to do that. But there was a part of me also that said, Gosh, I’m going to be it; we’re going to be real. I didn’t want to fail. To me, the narrative was okay because no one was thinking the government was filling the program; it was Dr. Weiss, and that’s why you get all these people together. You know, we do, so I live and continued to run this program. That it wasn’t, you know, run correctly, or being one of those that it should have been? And so where was that coming from? I didn’t; I didn’t know what I didn’t know, and I didn’t have the wisdom. I didn’t have the insight. You’re talking about a person who grew up in a single-parent household around addiction, who’s been molested, you know, didn’t have one of whatever, like, that whole person makes this. Yes. Who committed this crime? And so how do we, I mean, gosh, like I didn’t even know I had permission, Dr. Reid, during this seven-month period during this whole process? To say ouch. Yeah. And then when they took therapy from me, I said, They took it from me when they went through all my paperwork, and I chose to say, Alright, I get this. I’m
Dr. Jasmin Reed
like, I can’t do this. No, I give you nothing. Um,
Dr. Connie Omari
How I mean, you don’t, I mean, like so. Wellness is there, for sure. But what good is it if we don’t know if it’s there or if we are? There are so many risks that were so broken that my party again was surviving, saving my program, saving these women, and making sure I had my head straight so I could be there for my friends. I didn’t have time to journal, and I didn’t have time to read. I didn’t have time. I mean, you know, it’s one thing. And this may be a seizure. So what I’ve learned is that when you practice these behaviors and you’re not under pressure, it’s a lot easier to have it go into, to find yourself in the hot seat and be like, Okay, now I need to learn how to meditate. I know that.
Dr. Jasmin Reed
I was trying to meditate at this.
Dr. Connie Omari
point. Right, right.
Dr. Jasmin Reed
I’m not thinking about meditation. I’m thinking about, like, what the next space is.
Dr. Connie Omari
at four o’clock was not happening because all I wanted to do was sleep through this. I want to sleep.
Dr. Jasmin Reed
That’s probably a healthier way to approach that space. And you’re just trying to survive. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, the hard part, I think, sorry, I’m like picking this up. The hard part is, I think that one of the things that we have to recognize is that oftentimes, we are working with very, like, you know, is it something I remember doing that.
Dr. Connie Omari
never does. This is good now. Sorry, no, no
Dr. Jasmin Reed
worries. But, you know, we kind of work from the back end, meaning that, a lot of times, we are working from this perspective, where we’re working for one end result, and we don’t do a lot of preventative work because we don’t have space to think about it. Right. And again, this is where the generational stoppers can happen. It takes a lot of work to really be able to think about what are the things that I’m faced with as a black woman and as a black man in a society that I would want my future children to develop. And to be able to grow it? I love watching videos on Instagram, tick tock, of the parents who are teaching their children yoga. Oh, yes. To Senator So, and to learn to have some emotional control, because I’m like, that’s going to be foundational. When they come into this toxic world.
Dr. Connie Omari
This is what I’ve been waiting to get, and you’re touching on it right now. Our culture as black people—I’m talking about our roots—were some of the most effective people to walk the face of the earth. I mean, we, you know, arts, dance, and music culture that gets us, you know, we dominate sports. But this Eurocentric mindset that tells us that things have to be a certain way has, I think, caused us not to trust our natural, artistic, and creative ambitions. How can we kind of tap back into that for the purposes of achieving greater wellness?
Dr. Jasmin Reed
That’s a hard one. And I’m going to tell you why that’s so hard. I don’t think it’s impossible. I think I’m constantly working on decolonizing myself, right? Because we colonized ourselves is a process, especially where we live in a Eurocentric society, like, again, no matter how much work I do on myself, I know their rounds about how I need to operate and function, which makes it difficult, right? So you know, and so how I actually shift in those spaces is going to be different, right? So there are little things that I can do to control my environment and how safe I feel, right? But I think one of the things that we have to be able to tap into is recognizing where our behaviors come from in the group of them, like how they organically start, right? So when we talk about, like, even I’m thinking about, like, when did we get to the point where we started to sexualize black women’s bodies, right? Because in a lot of the African diasporic cultures, yes, black women may dance, you know, quote, unquote, like I’m like, you know, not working or doing more like dancing.
But you know, in those faces, the women may not be, as it’s not sexualized, right? So
Dr. Connie Omari
highly revered. I mean, my husband is African. So they
Dr. Jasmin Reed
wanted to change, right? The only time you change is when other groups of people come for you and then make their own references about our bodies and how they navigate. And then we still live in that society that capitulates to that same mindset, which has been perpetuated over time.
Dr. Connie Omari
We do it, like calling young girls fast, seeing the road, and stuff like that. I’m like, These are children, you know, and we’re doing it to our own. Yeah, yeah, that’s my point. That’s a good point. I am so glad to hear that. Because I’m not trying to be funny. But you know, when we do go to Africa, I do notice that the women have really big buttocks. That’s just part of it. So. So when you take them, bring them here, where white women don’t tend to have as much money. I mean, I’m not trying to race this; I’m just saying they’re putting the label on the woman, and, you know, hurt her body is shaped the way her ethnicity is calling for it; she’s not any more fast or any more sexualized than the average woman. You know, I’m from America.
Dr. Jasmin Reed
Absolutely. In the moon, you think about, like, black women in their bodies, right? So then it becomes the other piece about, Yes, we also criticize them, and you see a culture as being harmful. And you see everybody perpetuating it and making money off it?
Dr. Jasmin Reed
Hello, you can burn plants.
Dr. Connie Omari
You watch it: all the celebrities with the biggest bucks are making the most money.
Dr. Jasmin Reed
Interesting perspective,
Dr. Jasmin Reed
I think one of the things that we don’t do a lot of is understand our own gifts, like understanding our own history. I did. It’s such a deep part of who we are as people. And you know, even if you come, because I also say that people often say, You know, people maybe come from certain countries in Africa or are more connected. And I would say I would argue that they also have a version of colonization as well, unless you’re Ethiopia, which hasn’t been colonized, like you have your own colonization because of the countries that have taken over and your perspective about that as well. Now, you have probably held on to more cultural nuances about how you navigate, but your own version of what is superior is still there, right? And we see that when people come here, and they, you know, there’s like this push against you being African American versus African, right? There’s all this stuff that doesn’t really need to happen. So, you know,
Dr. Connie Omari
The first time I ever saw a skin-lightening cream was in Africa. And then, because my husband is African, we go to the shops and stuff, and we get a lot of food. I’ve never seen these things anywhere except in the Africa shops, and like, your skin is beautiful; like, what do you do away with it?
Dr. Jasmin Reed
I mean, do you know, we also discount a lot of Latin X communities because a lot of them are Afro Latinos, or, you know, African descent, and you know, we don’t identify them inside as well; we will say they’re Latino and not be able to recognize that there was a blackness there, like, you know, when we think about all aspects of that, right, like, just being able to lean in and think about the fact that, you know, we don’t have a healthy understanding of who we are, as well. So how do you break something when you don’t know your own history? How do you break something when you don’t know where it came from? Like understanding words and things that we actually do? And where do things come from? My husband is from New Orleans. So I always tell people, like, you know, people, I see people all the time, like, are you doing like, you know, little kids dancing from New Orleans, everybody’s kids to work? And you know, when we think about the mixture of cultures, a lot of that stuff is from the continent of Africa. So you’re talking about people who have taken on cultural dances from there, and they’ve really mixed it up, right?
Dr. Jasmin Reed
So it’s just an interesting perspective about, you know, how people lean into those things. And so what part of this has been put on us and what part of this is actually like our history and how we can actually function? A lot of things have been put on us about how to be, and I think we can operate in our fullness if we understand the things we have allowed to be put on us that actually stripped us of our brain. So my
Dr. Connie Omari
greatness, that part, that part, that part, as well. So there’s so much to be said about just, ah, man, just Oh, me, and you’re just a girl. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. In wellness, if you could describe wellness in a sentence, how would you do that?
Dr. Jasmin Reed
I would describe wellness as
Dr. Jasmin Reed
In one sentence, I would probably say wellness. And this will be my own personal definition of wellness.
Dr. Jasmin Reed
the consistent pattern of making sure I’m emotionally and physically safe. I love that for the simple reason that that is going to be a constant thing that we often have to work on. And those are the two things: if you don’t have your health, you don’t have your mind. It’s hard, but
Dr. Connie Omari
one that, no, I think may want to transition to what’s good, but I can’t emphasize enough that I can’t agree with you more there. You know, being prosecuted is by far the hardest thing I’ve ever been through in my life. and that includes losing a parent during that process. And I have to admit that there was a point when I thought I’d be transferred and I went insane. Like it literally. I had to be hospitalized. And at some point, when I got out, I made the decision. I said, Listen, no more. Y’all can have me here for 20 years; you told me I would. You can have my freedom. You can have flesh; you can have, you know, my career, my money, and my business. You cannot have my mind. You can’t have my family. And anything short of that was, you know, but, you know, the mind is powerful. It really is. And I and I yeah. So we’ve got to be intentional about that. Okay, there’s a place in the show. It’s called what’s good. We’re there now. Well, I’m going to give you a hypothetical situation. Okay. And I want you, Dr. Reid, to tell me how you would counsel this person. All right. Ready? Okay. Me. Sure. Quita Chiquita is an African American woman who is 13 years old. Chiquita is a Lesson woman, an African American teenager who’s 13 years old. Chiquita is a member of a church. And the church requires that she make a commitment to be a virgin. But she has already been abused by her father. And she has a lot of dad issues because of that. But she’s struggling with boys. She’s struggling with her identity. She’s struggling with the way that she sees men, and on top of that, the pastor of our church is pretty much guilting her because there’s no discussion about sex. But yet this huge commitment is expected of her to not have sex. What would you tell Chiquita if she came to you as a client?
Dr. Jasmin Reed
If the reason you know, one of the difficult things about working with children is that, you know, oftentimes you have to work with parents. Yeah, more than were children. But I’m going to go with Sweet as Mom first before I even tackle Chiquita because I want to get his mom to understand the barriers. And what is this church dynamic setting people up for? I go to church, I’m active, you know, part of the Christian university, but I’m also very realistic about what happens when people have been abused and have experienced big trauma and how that can impact the person in terms of the shame and guilt it has already brought onto them. If this is a good fit for this child to be in a space where these opportunities of shame and guilt, among other emotions, depression, etc., are going to come up because there is an expectation put on the child, And they have been put in situations where they did not have the opportunity to say no, right? They were like these things were impacting them in that space. So I’m going to talk to the mom a lot about that because I want the parent to understand how that environment can be unhealthy. And that does not help your child build self-esteem. When you know the church dynamic can be presenting ideas that don’t fit Chiquita, right, right, and so I’m always going to be like church. And now we’re going to make sure that the child is healthy. Right. The other part was Chiquita, and I want to now connect her with resources. And not necessarily just a group. But I want to be able to help her identify what other things she likes and doesn’t like, right? Does this feel good for her as well? I would imagine he does. And I would want to have a space and provide a space for her to be able to talk about why that doesn’t feel good for her. What are the things that come up for her—shame, guilt, the idea of feeling like a failure, right? Like, that’s a heavy burden to hold for a 13-year-old child who didn’t have again the decisions to make around these things that have happened to her. She was put into the situation, but she is not of her situation. But other pieces being able to highlight How can we be able to build Chiquita’s self-esteem around these things? What are the empowering things that we need to be able to incorporate into every culture? We didn’t see her in a different way. So that means being able to connect with other organizations and other people, not necessarily around the abuse, although that could be nice if she wants to do that. But being able to connect her with other places about how she can improve her own wellness is right. So now we’re talking about wellness at a very early age, which is great because, you know, we want to incorporate it these days. So, I want to incorporate journaling for Chiquita. I want her to be able to tell me about some of the songs she’s listening to. Music is big for kids at that age. So I want to, yeah, I’m a music person, you know, like I do EMDR therapy. And so, oftentimes, when I’m teaching people to tap, I use the sweetie, Taffy.
Dr. Jasmin Reed
Oh, no. So I used to do it. Yeah, I used to need tap. Have you ever heard tap tap tap dance? Okay, okay. Oh, Phil, just to help people connect, like how much our music is connected, But the other piece is that I want Chiquita to know who she is. And so I’m going to really immerse her in who she is as an identified person; I assume she’s a black young girl. So I’m going to talk about that. What does that mean for her? And so how does she actually see herself differently? The other piece is that we want to be able to incorporate, Is she good at sports? Is she good at art? How can we enhance some of those spaces about what her natural skills are? Wouldn’t the thing that people miss out on when working with younger, you know, children is that being in those activities actually improves their self-esteem?
Dr. Connie Omari
Absolutely, absolutely.
Dr. Jasmin Reed
Because she’s good at something. Why are we highlighting those days? What I really lean towards is being able to find what’s safe for her before she starts paying. I would imagine that when they feel safe for anybody, not even grown women, it’s safe in that way, and I wouldn’t want her to feel pressure to be able to commit to something in a way that she feels guilty. So I will focus on that with the parent. And I think that’s a collaboration. Another thing would be that I also want to focus on the parent dynamic with the child.
Dr. Connie Omari
So what I’m hearing is, you know, a lot of these issues are targeted at the child as the identified patient, but a lot of times it’s a family issue. Absolutely. It just starts, and when I can’t imagine what my life would have been like if I had seen wellness modeled by the people that were raising me, you know, and I’m not judging because I don’t, you know, my yoga mom, who keeps food on the table like, What do you mean? I’ve got work
Dr. Jasmin Reed
If I remember from it, yeah, yeah. You know, the funny part is that I remember one time in grad school, I was sitting at the beach just watching people watch like people watch. Love it. And it was sitting on the beach, and I was watching all these people, like Jordan, just walking. Kids walk midday. Right? This is, well, this is total freedom, right? I think of wellness as a piece of freedom. And I think ultimately, we’re all looking for a way to be free. And if that means that those are spaces that I need to be able to prove, I can feel free. And that’s what I’m wanting.
Dr. Connie Omari
to do. I love it. I love it. Wow, Dr. Murray. Well, this has been amazing. Let me I typically ask these questions right before I do what’s good but what are just just for someone who’s like really, you know, strapped for resources strapped for Time, whatever what is just a preferably three, but if what are one or two things that they could just do to incorporate wellness into their hectic routine?
Dr. Jasmin Reed
One, I’m going to say, look at your time schedule; just schedule some time, whether it’s a couple of times a week, two, or three. It doesn’t have to be a whole ordeal. That means taking a 30-minute walk in lunch; this doesn’t have to be something big; you don’t have to do the whole two and a half hours; incorporate little pieces of time for yourself. So that could mean sitting in the car and just listening to a podcast. That can mean, you know, being able to have audio, but very little things you can be able to incorporate to be able to change your dynamic about what feels relaxing for you, too. I would say that the smaller things are going to be like, you know, being able to do a simple bed routine. I have a full bedroom teen for me to be the restroom because the one thing that recognizes people don’t have good breasts, right? So what are you doing to actually get yourself to sleep? Oftentimes, people don’t have a schedule for that. So what does that look like for yourself? As soon as I hit the man, I’m sleeping. Right? Right, right, like within five minutes, like people love this, like you’re talking to me a bit, I’m like,
Dr. Jasmin Reed
you. So maybe it means, like, taking a bath. It’s very, very easy. Having a bubble bath, doing some Epsom salt, you know, like the old school, putting some, you know, lavender or, you know, oils, those kinds of things to be able to relax your body, being able to turn off your phone, your TV, not going to sleep at those things, having a scheduled time to be able to feel replenished—those are very, very simple things you can do. If you’d like to do journaling, do it right before you go to bed to kind of reflect and not have all that stuff here. But it’s on paper, and I always encourage people to do that. Because a lot of times some of us keep all here. And then at night, when you can’t sleep, get it out on paper. So you can have a restful night, you know, being able to think about listening to some music, do you need white voice stuff, little things,
Dr. Connie Omari
Little things can make a change. And people think, You know, you need a gym membership or you have to afford a spa or massage. But you’re saying looking just a little by
Dr. Jasmin Reed
Sleep is one of the biggest things that people have difficulties with. And if you can get yourself on a sleep schedule, those are probably going to be the most powerful things you can do for yourself to be able to have some control over how you actually feel, like the back and forth sleep schedule, like this is every right eight to eight and nine o’clock I’m playing between that time period, like my phone goes on silent around certain times. And my phone goes silent around seven. So I only set a pause after that. But you know, I try to be really mindful about this. Yeah, I love it. Love it, love it.
Dr. Connie Omari
And there’s something I think—you know, I don’t know—if it’s a promise, I’ll speak for myself. You know, I told you, I do get up at four o’clock in the morning. But here’s an area of guilt that I feel about it because tons my husband likes, you know, low time, you know it really, and so he asked me to be back therapists, but how do I or not just him have my children, my so I have little children? So my three-year-old daughter will be eight tomorrow. But you know, they still get up, and they want to, you know? And I’m like, No, I want this. I mean, my three-year-old, you know, he’s probably in his stuff.
Dr. Jasmin Reed
Or both of them; both of them I will allow, so how, you know, do we work around that because, you know, I can tell a difference in my day? If my alone time does get interrupted and I can’t even find it at four o’clock, they will still find a way to find me. In the world,
Dr. Jasmin Reed
My thought process is always there. It’s also like, Can we start to train them to also have their own alone time? I love that. I love that. They will also need to know how to stabilize themselves. So can we incorporate them in some of those spaces? If we’re doing something where we’re just meditating or being able to practice some yoga, those are really good things to do with kids, because kids oftentimes don’t want to do those. But we’re teaching them some of the skills, like, you know, parents are already saying, Do as I say, not as I do, but we do as they do, right? So, being able to train them about, like, do you need alone time?
Do you need some time to yourself, especially when they’re having outbursts and stuff like that? So it gets them in the habit of understanding why it’s important for you to have if they don’t understand that, you know, especially when they’re heavy helpers, right? Because I’d be like, Oh, you may need some alone time. It sounds like you’re having some difficulties regulating your emotions. And so let’s just take some time to grieve and be able to do that. And then, we can also explain that I need some alone time. Remember when you had that? I need that too. So like, what are some of the things you can do, and then when they’re three years old, they’re going to have a little bit less limited things, like maybe watching TV if you give them that, or a tablet, or whatever the case, I tried to, you know, try to refrain from that because it’s a lot. But how can we be able to incorporate some of those things? So maybe you’re, you know, eating your breakfast? You know, let me have that time. Okay. time, so I understand, as a parent,
Dr. Connie Omari
and I think a lot of it is what we’re talking about now; like, all the whole time, I haven’t been taught that that’s okay. So I feel guilty. I think if I said it more assertively, you might know me. He was early; I think I would, you know, make it easier. And then, like, I want to teach it. But I want to break the cycle. I want them to see how important it is to take care of themselves. Because, like you said, when they get into this world, they’re going to need to know how to self-soothe. So. All right. Well, Dr. Reid, we are going to be wrapping up. You have been a pleasure. And I know that our guests are going to want to find you. So when we get someone looking for either your counseling or your coaching services, how can we get in touch with you?
Dr. Jasmin Reed
They can always contact me on Instagram or Facebook; my personal name is Dr. Jay Reid. For our psychological services and blue psychological services, go to our site on Instagram or Facebook. And our website is www dot I’m looking site.com.
Dr. Connie Omari
Love it. Love it. I love it; please make sure that you send me links to all of that. And I’ll put it in the show notes. So I guess I can just click it. And
Dr. Jasmin Reed
We’ll go from there. All right.
Dr. Connie Omari
It has been a pleasure. You are so insightful and wise, and I’ve enjoyed interviewing you today. I really have, and I’ve learned a lot, and I know our audience has as well. All right, thank you so much. All right, everyone, that includes our interview for today. Thank you, Dr. Reid, for coming in. I wish you much success. Thank you. I appreciate it. All right, peace, peace, and blessings. Dr. L., thank you for listening to this episode of The Black Marriage and Family Therapy Matters podcast, where we connect black families to black therapists. Since you’ve listened all the way through, come on in and join the family. If you haven’t done so yet, please join our free community, where we offer weekly trainings and monthly giveaways. We can be found on Facebook under the Black Marriage and Family Matters Facebook group. And since you’re serious about joining our family, we also invite you to join our all-in ad campaign, which signifies your commitment to go all in not only for yourself but in helping us reach more people by downloading this podcast wherever you are listening to it, leaving us a review, and subscribing to our YouTube channel. This really helps us reach more people and change more lives. After all, Dr. Martin Luther King once said, we can all get more done together than we can apart. With that said, I want to encourage you to share this episode with just three other people who you think might also benefit from our community and what we are offering in the hopes that all of you can join the campaign. When you’re done, simply click the link all in the campaign in the bio and receive a free copy of my course entitled Goodbye Toxicity, which is valued at $297. This course will help you work through some of the difficult experiences that arise in most of our relationships. And it’s completely free to you with your commitment to join our all-in campaign. We look forward to connecting with you every Monday and Wednesday. Thanks for listening.