Dr. Connie Omari
Hello, hello hello and welcome to the black Marriage and Family Therapy matters podcast, where we connect black families to black therapists. Today’s guest is Mrs. Darnita Samuels. Hi Darnita.
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
Hey, Dr. Connie, how are you?
Dr. Connie Omari
I’m good. How are you? are very
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
well. Thank you for asking. I’m so excited to be here.
Dr. Connie Omari
Great. Great. We are honored to have you. Thank you. May I please introduce our audience to your amazing work? Yes, please. Awesome. Dr. Anita is a licensed marriage and family therapist from Detroit. She has been practicing for 10 years and owns the Golf Bay Healing and Wellness Center. PLLC with locations in Charlotte, North Carolina, and Houston, Texas, doesn’t need to earn her master’s in marriage and family therapy from Pfeiffer University in Charlotte, North Carolina. She will be attending Texas Woman’s University in the fall to begin her PhD in marriage and family therapy. Congratulations. In her free time, she enjoys reading, traveling, attending church, and spending time with her church family. She’s a foodie. So you may see her anywhere. So don’t be afraid to say hi. Are for people from Detroit. What’s up, though? Is that what you guys say from Detroit?
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
Has anybody been watching BMF? Everybody always tried to call me, and we could tell who was from Detroit and not because they didn’t really know how to pronounce it. That’s like an internal.
Dr. Connie Omari
How do you do 100? I
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
do? You did? Good. You did?
Dr. Connie Omari
Okay. Okay. Okay. I’m not from Detroit. I’ve only been there once. So that’s awesome to hear that. Yeah. So what brings you here? Well, before we get into all of that, first of all, I am impressed. I am. I love the fact that you specialize in marriage and family therapy. And I can already tell that there aren’t a lot of black people that you went to school with who studied with you.
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
Right? Yeah.
Dr. Connie Omari
Yeah. How is that showing up in your work? That there’s not a lot of us doing this?
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
Oh, wow. So the referrals are right. I specifically want a marriage and family therapist who looks like meat and is a person of color. I know of, you know, some of the people I went to school with in Charlotte, and then making other connections through conferences and different things like that. I currently reside in Houston. I am going to connect it with the therapy community. The fortunate piece is that I was able to find three marriage and family therapists here from one I made a connection with about 40 people at a conference, but it’s been
Dr. Connie Omari
Okay, so you’re saying when you’re ready to make referrals? Basically, you’re getting so much business that you can’t see it all. So you need to refer out, and you can’t find any. Correct. Wow. Wow. Wow.
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
Further with that, because I am Charlotte, I have two therapists that work under me. They’re sold to the brim. Wow. We’ll be hiring there as well as here in Houston. The girls are coming. That’s not enough.
Dr. Connie Omari
Yeah, yeah. Wow. Well, what I do love about it, because I believe statistically, is that there are 4% black therapists in general. So that psychologist, counselor education, educator, LPC, LCSW element, so I guess when you break it down to LMFT? Yes, no, that’s just such a rare breed. Now, we’re going to have you specialize in inner child work. And that’s so important. We’re definitely going to go into that. But I’m going to ask: I did my dissertation. I was an LPC, but I did my dissertation on marital attitudes and expectations in the black community. Very, yeah. And I’m very passionate about that type of work. Um, what are you? I mean, what are you seeing in terms of just, well, one thing that it’s not a bad problem to have when businesses are overflowing, right, and you’re not making the sound like you’re complaining, complaining. But it is a little bit frustrating that, from a professional perspective, you know, we just don’t like that it’s just really hard to have the resources and stuff available to serve. Absolutely, absolutely. Aside from that, what do you think is the cause of this? Because I know a lot of what I was studying, and this was only a few years ago, we didn’t really see the value. What I’m hearing you say is, Well, we’re trying to get the help; you know, it’s just not the resources available for us to utilize that. What can you make of that?
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
So there are a lot of things that kind of play out prior to today, which is actually my seven-year business anniversary.
Dr. Connie Omari
Congratulation.
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
But when I first started, it was hard to get people in the door. And I became fully booked in 2018, rolling through 2019. And there comes the implosive 2020. Right.
Dr. Connie Omari
COVID
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
is overrated. And so many people actually have to sit down and deal with themselves. So they couldn’t run away; there was no actor, right? Most people, or just being in the neighborhood walking in different things like that, are thinking, What are you doing? by the things that are contributing to the demise of how you see yourself and your relationship, however, right? So when people are coming in, I think for us in the black community, there are a few things that are happening: the stigma of therapy, and really, every day,
Dr. Connie Omari
I love it. I love it.
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
I also think that people are like, I am tired of carrying this burden. Around the term, you know, soft life, I want to do this offline,
Dr. Connie Omari
right? Yes, yes. today.
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
So then it’s just like, Okay, so how do you define yourself in life? Because are you chasing money? Or are you just chasing the peace, the joy, the happiness, and the contentment of where you are right now? Right? Is that how you see yourself? So with working with couples that are coming in, and then, like, we’re desperate because we’re not communicating? What I see in my clients is the battle, right? Who had it worse? You’re not listening to me. You’re not validating how I feel. And the other person is like, I’m Bert; I’m tired. I’ve served you; I’ve catered to you. And I can just never make you happy. So now I’m checking out. So there are a lot of different things, and other ones are just, like, we never knew what healthy relationships looked like. So we’re struggling to define what healthy is for us. Working through a lot of different things, all at the same time. We’re going back to the inner child loans; all these little children from our past are popping up. And some of our children, and these are our grandparents, children, these parents, children, these are the ancestors we never knew about. There’s no line between those children at all: how do I show up today as the effective person that I need to be versus giving all this space to the kids who want to come out and play?
Dr. Connie Omari
Got you? Oh, I love that. I love that. I love that. I just wanted to piggyback off of something you said, you know, it’s having my opinion that we as a society do such a disservice when we talk about our history, because we talk about our history of slavery as if it were ancient Greek, you know, whatever. I was telling my daughter that I remember my grandmother telling me about her grandmother, who was a slave. So we’re not that far removed from this horrible institution that has dictated and disrupted some of our family dynamics. Can you talk a little bit more?
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
about that? Yeah, well, okay, so we have a history of shaming, you know, people of color for their history; they come over, right? So this is, you know, the thing that Ron DeSantis is doing in Florida, with, you know, getting rid of black history, because it makes other people feel uncomfortable, right? You sit in discomfort and just ease it all the time, right? It just becomes our badge of honor and, if you want to say, our superpower, right? You have to dispel that, too. However, if we can honor the fact that we have been such resilient people, people of faith, I think you really can appreciate this because, when I was praying, I asked God, God, why do we have to go through slavery? Why did they say that every time we turn around, somebody is trying to get us? One thing I feel like the Holy Spirit told me was that it’ll never happen because you always bounce back and you always find a way to make it. Other people wish that they could be that way. So if we take away the stigma and the shame, I’ll say it’ll replace guilt, our own feelings about slavery, and honor the fact that they tried all of this to separate us from the country and the countries of the continent and everything else that we came from our history and our culture, What did we do? We created our own history, or another contradiction. Because we are not displaced people. We are an evolved people, if you really want to write what is shameful about that, because think about other nations that have been enslaved. The nation has collapsed fully and completely. In fact, there’s been no area where they’ve actually been able to rebuild. Right? Except us. Love that. And something to be proud of. You know, so whether our slave acetonuria, slept, or stayed on the plantation, it was still an onus and the courage that it took to do both. They’ll tap that same courage—what that was now
Dr. Connie Omari
and love it. You know, I just have to say this: we were talking before we came on, and I’m doing my own work around this. But by the time this gets publicized, we will be broadcasting that I will have come out about my incarceration and will be just listening to you. I couldn’t help but think about it even as I was incarcerated, for those of you who know my story, and I won’t go into it in too much detail right now, although I will have other resources available for that. But it was a terrible injustice, and I believe on both sides with respect to my crime and also what occurred to me as well. I saw a lot of that being incarcerated with black women. I’m not trying to knock what’s happening with black men in terms of, you know, police brutality and things like that, because that’s horrible. But I do think it’s a little bit easier to see it because it’s in your face. But when you’re talking about black women in money and things like that and being behind the scenes, there’s also a real heavy injustice in the prosecution of these women of color who are being successful in the workforce. I say that because I think about what you’re saying, though, in terms of the resilience, like I could not have been more proud. I’m not putting on like a badge of honor and saying, Hey, you know, go to prison. You know that it is not, and I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy. But to have been there and to see how these black women, similar to myself, were there for much longer because they didn’t have some of the things I had to get a reduced sentence, but, you know, be there and just hold their heads up and carry themselves with dignity, oftentimes much more so than the guards who they had to answer to, in speaking in knowing how to get things done within a system that’s created and defined by its ability to take your identity and humiliate you. I couldn’t be more proud. I know that sounds horrible. But our P is in our blood, like we are survivors.
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
Yes. thrive in areas where others will collapse. Yes. We teach ourselves that we go from sometimes a very angry perspective of revenge more than replenishment. And so if we could learn how to just say, Okay, that wouldn’t happen to us. But guess what? Guess where I am? Right? Make it through that. What else can I make it through? And that’s a challenge—to push yourself forward and forward and forward. And goals. So whether it’s community activism, whether it’s through therapy, whether it’s through releasing yourself from the generational curses that have attached to the family, right? Be free. You deserve to have a good and happy life. We no longer have to adapt that downtrodden story.
Dr. Connie Omari
We don’t. No, no, we don’t. I love where we’re going with this. Davina. And I want to mention one of the things that I’ve noticed even in running this program: I can’t be an LMFT. My training is not in marriage and family therapy. But I’ve noticed what part of it is, and forgive me for my own bias. But I thought going on a more general track would be more helpful because of my ignorance and not recognizing the inner child piece that comes with marriage and family therapy, if that makes sense. I’ve referred people to our website who are looking for black therapists. And people have said, Well, I’m not looking for marriage or thinking that to get a marriage and family therapist, you need to be on the brink of divorce. And you know, and just whatever. So, help us fill that in. I mean, I’m hearing you say you do inner child work to help with this. So how does that connect? I think that a lot of people, including myself, have been a little bit confused about that.
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
Yeah, so and I’ll say that I don’t know of a program that is immature or anything that teaches inner child wounds that you pick up along the way as you develop a practice, and then all of a sudden, times where I have been in a session like the number seven and just like pop right right here in my head. But seven, okay? And then all of a sudden people will be like, Oh my God, and I’m just like, Okay, well, what just happened? What happened? You went seven, and we uncovered a lot of different things. And in uncovering and trying to say okay, then doing research to try to figure out how do you help these people release it, going through the acceptance and then the BRI parenting and different things like that, Oh, that’s what Okay, so these inner child wounds keep popping up and calling. So that presents a problem that prevents you from actually being able to be a full adult. So the other pieces are brought up. So it might fall into ifs or narrative therapy, right? You know, we go into a lot of different spaces with that. With marriage and family therapy, you know, a lot of marriage and family therapists don’t like working with couples. That’s interesting. Because we can give us real couples work, right? I will say, even 70% of my practice is with individual black females. And so, sometimes we bring their partner to see what the dynamic is, especially if a person starts to really override in a session, meaning they’re always talking about this one person. It’s like, Well, do you mind if we meet with them to see what this relationship dynamic is like and how it really works?” Then we start to see and kind of change up the treatment plan and everything else. So it’s ever-evolving, and I’ll say that marriage and family therapy—sometimes I was discouraged to be an American family therapist, honestly, in the beginning,
Dr. Connie Omari
what why? Why do you think so?
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
Because of jobs, right? Yeah. The land of MFT because that’s where it was created and born, right? When I lived in North Carolina, one of the things was the VA, you know, the federal government. They told me to get a good job; you know, everything’s like that. Right? They wouldn’t hire an MFT. Originally, for LPC as a social worker, that was it.
Dr. Connie Omari
A lot of it has to do with billing and stuff, too, right? Like a lot of times, I know insurance companies don’t want to pay for couples insurance. Yeah.
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
Yeah. So definitely, opening up is broadening. We were just able to actually set up Medicare. So before that, I was an LCSW. And so now we’re still evolving and growing. And we are a small, very small field of it, but it’s a growing field.
Dr. Connie Omari
So, so well, I guess that’s a little comforting, knowing, I mean, it’s even rarer, obviously, for the black community. But it sounds like LMFT in general is something that is still just emerging in the news. Absolutely. Yeah. Everywhere you look, you see people struggling in their relationships. And they’re struggling with their, you know, I mean, gosh, it sells in all movies and social media in our real lives. You see it. So that’s so weird that there’s such a disconnect. Go ahead. Sorry.
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
Okay. So because I’m, you know, okay, this is like a shameless plug. I might get paid for this. But what I tell you, if you really want to know what an inner child looks like,
Dr. Connie Omari
What about it? Have you
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
seen Unpreserved? on Hulu?
Dr. Connie Omari
I want to; I’ve seen that. I’ve seen the commercial with Kerry Washington. Yes.
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
You’ve got to? Yeah.
Dr. Connie Omari
I like the tip therapist who has made that recommendation for me, so I definitely
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
need to get on that. Yeah, yeah. And in there, you know, there are so many nuggets. I mean, literally, in prison, somebody can do their whole dissertation. But Aries inner child You also see Delroy Lindo; who is her father? So you see his inner child, and why did you start on the track of recidivism? Yeah, yeah. It’s incredible, and they discuss how racism, the puncher, a real role because he’s from some part of Alabama. He saw something happen to his mother. Him on the road, right? But it shows how people formulate relationships. And once you start to repair one relationship that has a huge impact on your life, all your other relationships start to repair as well. Oh, good. Also about that system piece that we met. Yes.
Dr. Connie Omari
And it’s so hard when a system is created—does it include us? I mean, in slavery, you weren’t allowed to be legally married. I mean, I can’t imagine that the slave master could come have sex with your wife. If you do something about it, you
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
absolutely. And she was urgent. He took it first.
Dr. Connie Omari
I was doing some reading. I don’t know if you know about this, but like the buck, they would do it like a form of punishment. Like, not only do you get beat, but just to add insult to injury, I’m going to do this in front of your wife and in front of your child. Oh,
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
yeah, even.
Dr. Connie Omari
So when we wonder when we look at the state of our marriages and relationships today, I mean, what do you say?
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
You know, and that’s the thing. So that’s when it’s like one conversation, one thing at a time, because I want to steamroll and just be like, Okay, fix me. I am not a genie. Sunday, these people couldn’t afford me. But the biggest, I’ll say this, is the biggest reward and the biggest return on internal investment, right? Is repairing that part of us. That feels, for some reason, either unlovable, unloved, not good enough, or, you know, even aspects of imposter syndrome, so that we blame the things that have been stolen from us, either on purpose or unknowingly, thinking that we were lovingly raising our children. So that when we think about it in that aspect, we are empowering people and giving them their own self-love, because I think, okay, so self-care has become a cliche term. However, the beginning of self-care was actually altruistic, meaning people who were institutionalized in the 50s and 60s were given self-care, meaning they were able to make some small decisions about things that were dealing with them and their care while they were in institutionalized, and last day, institutionalized mental institutions. I was going to ask, Okay, good. Yeah, mental institutions and things like that So these are people with personality disorders, behavior disorders, and all those things that could not live in, you know, the world’s society. And so to give themselves some freedom, autonomy, and a form of self-esteem, they gave them self-care, which meant giving them all their own choices and decisions right now rather than in the 60s and 70s with the Black Panthers, because it was like, Nobody’s going to give us anything. So we have to take care of ourselves. So that’s when they started the full days: schools, banks, different things like that. Right. Even self-protection. Right. And, you know, fast forward, you know, Oprah and self-care, you know, and everybody took it right, what
Dr. Connie Omari
to do? And, like you said, we’re into the sawflies. So yeah, yeah.
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
But when I say self love, it’s like, Okay, how do you really love yourself? Are you loving yourself with the appropriate choices and decisions that you’re making for yourself? Are you taking care of this body? Because if you take care of this body, are you the only one? Right? If you take care of it, I will take care of you. I mean, but self-love is like, Okay, you’re thirsty? Did you drink some water? Did you even give yourself the gift of water? Don’t have to starve yourself. Sometimes self-love is saying no to things that, you know, it’s like, okay, we may have this FOMO fear of missing out, but it’s just like, I’m exhausted. And I probably want it to be almost close. Go take care of yourself, give yourself what you need, and you go back out to the outside, owes no more. So it’ll be open when you get back out. So those are some of the things we talk about, you know, when we’re talking about the inner child and everything else, because in general, that’s when the inner child will start to pop out when we bark or something else, and that child is raging. And we think that’s very rational. Adult, right? Or our 10-year-old self is just fighting an enemy.
Dr. Connie Omari
Right? When I talk about this, I think about, I guess, Erickson’s developmental stages. Are you saying that we get stuck in our childhood?
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
We take different emotional stances. So what I like to say is that I’m describing it as whatever you define as an emotional trauma, which your inner self defines as an emotional trauma. Your emotions stop there, but your physical body continues to grow. So whether you were abused by multiple people at different times or one parent came up and said one thing that completely tore you apart and changed how you were, you kind of stopped right there. So it affects all your relationships—how you formulate relationships, how you show up, and then also how you assert yourself with a voice. Because anything that looks, smells, or feels like that incident makes you react based on that age.
Dr. Connie Omari
One thing that I find is that people often act like the cut-off culture, you know, like that. That’s a form of self-care. And wow, you know, of course, you know, we don’t need to be letting people abuse us or take advantage of us, or there’s value in working through problems. Can you tell me a little bit about that in terms of, you know, I think it’s a dichotomy? I mean, on the one hand, we want to have these healthy relationships. On the other hand, well, the minute I see her, you know, this, I’m going to cut you off. You’re going to have a strong
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
relationship with these people. And that’s the thing, because it makes it too easy. Right now, it’s so easy to not formulate a relationship or have a very superficial relationship. So it’s easier to move on because we emotionally detach. But if we are always describing that
Dr. Connie Omari
I’m sorry; I want to let you keep going, but I’m emotionally detached. Like, break that down, because it goes here on me. So
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
emotional detachment is that I’m going to wall up, I’m going to defend myself, and I’m only going to give you so much of me. me, just in case you’re out to hurt me. So if you do, then I don’t have to go through the grief, the crying, the tears, and everything else. I will say, Oh, you know, it is what it is. And I’m just moving on. Even though they feel some things are attached that need to be repaired, whether the relationship needs to be repaired or not They’re feeling that something needs to take place. But we just want to move on and not feel anything. And you know, that old statement is like, Oh, you thought you had we, but you didn’t.
Dr. Connie Omari
have facts. And let me elaborate on that. Because it’s so funny, because everybody’s had that happen to them and probably has participated as well. But it’s funny because I can think of somebody who’s called themselves doing that to me. But it still bothers you, if the purpose is to, you know, so you won’t feel bothered by anything that triggers them about me, especially if I’m successful, and something good happens for me, it’s like it bothers you. So, you know, why don’t we just work on repairing the relationship as opposed to cutting me off? And then pretending like I don’t bother you, while, yes, I do.
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
And that actually, you know, kind of walks you into the forgiveness aspect? Yes. We hope we’re holding somebody hostage, and they are out here having a ball. That’s life; the only person suffering is us. We punished ourselves with this sentence. Right? And this crusade of whatever, right? As you say it, somebody you know gets an accolade when they do this, and it’s just like, you want to know why? Because food is in life, and that was just, but you’re holding everything for you.
Dr. Connie Omari
Oh, you know? And in their personal lives, in their intimate relationships and stuff, too? Oh, yeah,
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
very much. Because what’ll happen is, it’s this thing of almost like revenge, or punishment, or, I should say, punitive punishment, because, you know, I say punishment is punitive. And that means I really want to inflict harm or pain on you. If I correct you on, like, you know, you spoke to me earlier today. And I didn’t; that didn’t feel good for me. I’m going to ask that you kind of change that. And here’s the reason why I write a correction: I love you enough to know that you’re acting outside of who you really are. And I’m going to bring it to your attention to give you an opportunity to correct it, but I’m also going to lead you through it. That’s my definition, okay? We talked about this, you know, cutting off or canceling culture, throwing everything away. And it’s just like, You cannot. It’s like we see the value of the individual or the experience. So, therefore, we can’t learn a lesson from it. We don’t know what it looks like to resolve conflict or return from something like, you know, a sense of betrayal or anything like that. And so the same thing happens in this relationship. Because unfortunately, on social media, we are bombarded with people who have relationships with these lavish lifestyles, right? So he bought me a Bentley, and then he flew me to Dubai for our first date and everything else. That’s highly unrealistic. And then there are also articles out there saying that some of these women have become prostitutes. I mean, pick your poison and do what you’ve got. Right? But I’m just covering the gamut of it. They don’t. You know, they don’t really amplify the ones that put in the work. So you may see the Christian and blue faces, right? And some people are like, Oh, that’s love, and it’s like, No, it’s not, you know, abuse. Right. Yes. Levels of dysfunction. Yes. You know, smart one of my favorite couples, former President Obama and Mrs. Michelle Obama, right? And I’m just loving every minute of them because when I tell you to people who don’t keep it more real, I’ll say community. Yes, yes. Then they and even she said in an interview with Oprah recently that she was like, We’ve been married 30 years. 10. and I couldn’t stand them, right? Love it. Love it. If I have the right user shoes (I had 20 good years), I’ll take those ads, and I’m working on it. Back and honestly, they have to go to couples counseling twice.
Dr. Connie Omari
They did, yeah. Yeah.
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
If you really look at the true meaning of marriage, it’s not one of those things: are we going to have a big old party and see how much money we can get? Because if that’s the case, rent out an event space, do billing or something else, and charge $200 per ticket, you’re going to have somebody show up, down, or in a grace, you know, tux or suit? Have fun, have a party, but don’t bind yourself to somebody forever. Right? Right. It was supposed to be forever, because forever does not have an exit strategy. And people are planning exit strategies. And it’s just like, What are you doing this for? You might as well just continue today, checking in every five years, and maybe see a therapist, right? To say, Okay, so it’s working for us to be together? If it is continued for the next five? And if it’s not trying to figure out how to uncouple couples,
Dr. Connie Omari
love it. I want to make sure. Okay, so for the listener who just had an eye-opening moment, that’s about canceled culture. I don’t want to confuse them for, you know, times when relationships should be cut off. You’re talking about the lavish lifestyle that we see on Instagram, and I think about abuse and things like that. So where and how is one to know? Okay, this is because of my own inner child’s wounds that I want to cut off. No, this is really unhealthy. Not good. You know, I do need to cut this off. What are some things we can look for?
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
A good question. Generally speaking, if the person has literally been doing the same behavior and their relationship is over, or if they are attracting the same type of person, Now, if a person feels likely to have gone on a journey of healing, and when I’m saying, Oh, let me just talk about that, Because sometimes healing is a lifelong process. I thought I was healed. And then, just like they know, something happens and it triggers them, and both know that’s just another opportunity to grow in your healing. Okay. But if only you set boundaries, really good boundaries, boundaries that are set solidly, they’re not based on fear. They’re not based on a measurement or anything like that. These are really good, healthy boundaries, and the person is violating them. Okay, you’ve worn them; you’re given the opportunity to self-correct, and they haven’t. It’s, you know, usually that thing and a sample. I have a no cussing at me policy. You can’t cuss at me. Okay. You demand me; you rip me apart. I had a person in my life who I thought was a really good friend. And they trusted me, and I said, Listen, I just heard you. You violated my boundary, right?
Dr. Connie Omari
Just to be clear, she is just cussing at you. Not me, you know? because, like, shut the fuck up or something like this. I don’t even carry anybody on the show. I was just really trying to follow you. Okay.
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
Have you been? I’m saying yeah. nearby. Wait a minute, you just violated my boundary, right? Their excuse was, Oh, well, I’m from such and such. So that’s what we do. And I’m like, Oh, well, I’m from here, too. I don’t do that. so I have the opportunity to remain my friend. Dangerous behaviors towards me and how you speak Or I’m going to wish you well. One of my clients gave me this phrase. And I told her I was like, I am still in it. Go with God. He has better plans for you than I do.
Dr. Connie Omari
Here you go. Love it. Let me just apologize. Turn off. I was like, No, that’s weird, because I don’t want to cross the show. I was just really into what you were saying. I wanted to make sure I was very, very clear, but I did not need any disrespect. Oh, look, I want you to cancel Culture and me on the show.
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
Specifically, real quick. Yes. Don’t worry about it. You have such a pure spirit.
Dr. Connie Omari
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
I have been in conversations with people with malign intent and malice.
Dr. Connie Omari
Difference. Yeah, yeah. It’s different.
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
Oh, I like this because I’ve been off the podcast. I’m going, Oh, yeah. And I made it very clear to them. No bantering answers, and I’m moving on. You know, you’re pure. You’re surrounded by light. So I just want you to
Dr. Connie Omari
thank you. I appreciate that. Thank you. I’m really enjoying working with you and getting some of this information, so this is really great. Um, I want to know, okay, so how, because I think that when we become adults, we forget so much of what it’s like to be a child, for how we interact with our own children, but also internally, like, I just remember promises and stuff that I made to myself as a child, goals or dreams, or, you know, our traumas and things that met. But how do you get an adult? We’re so present-minded, like in the moment today. How do you get a 35-year-old to recognize that this is really his 15-year-old acting out? You know, like, how to connect those dots?
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
Yes, that’s good. But then I also want to add a piece, as you said, because some of us in our childhood were never children.
Dr. Connie Omari
So some of us don’t even have an inner child to have an inner child.
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
You give it, I’m saying? Anger right there. Yes. Going back to your example of a 35-year-old, who may not even know or have forgotten, You’re introducing them to things that children used to do. Oh, if they have children, I tend to play with your child and not the video game. Right? Right. Why watch a YouTube video if you don’t know how to, you know, square right? Go outside and play with his kid. Amusement parks, coloring, drawing—you know, things I’m just like—sometimes it’s just like releasing emotions. I was like, Get a dartboard with multiple darts. And just throw darts. I haven’t put a feeling wheel up there. Explore their emotions, because a lot of times they’re Delton. They don’t know what they are feeling emotionally, but when they’re feeling something, they know they’re feeling something. They’re just, I’m like, blown out about their feelings. We’ll put it on a dartboard and get to throw it. Sometimes it’s like, Have you ever been to a football game? You like football? Oh, yeah, I’ll never be enough. You just know, I’m not going to, you know, spend all that money to get on, you know, almost on the field? No, but just be in the arena. Sometimes it’s just calling us. Take a day for yourself and do whatever you want to do.
Dr. Connie Omari
So how is that helpful? Because I’m just hearing. I don’t know, how does that help them?
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
It gives them permission. Because a lot of times I was like, How can other people do it? But I came in like, Why can’t you? Well, because? Well, you don’t? That’s not the answer.
Dr. Connie Omari
So you’re saying that when people don’t have children, they can come off as angry? Yes, they can miss their childhood. So you’re making these recommendations to give them an opportunity to be a child as
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
an adult? Absolutely. It can make them angry, and that gives them the space to release the anger, right? Sometimes I have them go back and have conversations with the person who hurt them. And I will say this: for one black male client in particular, it was life-changing. This person saw me because they came to me and became like, I don’t even feel my emotion. But midway through our first session, I had one particular question, and the floodgates opened. And they were so freaked out that they were crying. Then, when I actually asked them about it, they were like, I can’t believe I’m sitting here crying like this. Nothing could possibly harm me.
Dr. Connie Omari
I think that’s wonderful. You know, first of all, I love it when we’re talking about our black men showing up and coming to therapy sessions. And I’m just hearing what you say. And you know, my husband is great. He’s fantastic. But my son, who was three before June, kisses a lie; it can actually be a little bit annoying. But it just, you know, drives my husband crazy, especially if he tries to kiss him in the mouth or something like that. And I could just see you like the man the man, you know, and I’m just like he’s three. I don’t know if that’s an extreme example, but I do know black boys in general. I remember when I was working with these intern guidance counselors at a school and an eight-year-old boy who was a little older than my son, but there was a school shooting. It wasn’t at this school, but it was on the news and stuff, and he was terrified, and the counselor did not know how to connect me. I’m like, This is a boy; this is a child you scared? You know. And so, how are we? How are we? I mean, I think in both ways, with our young boys, we’re not letting them be children. We’re not letting him have this idea of being a man. Yes, it’s over. And then with women with girls, we’re adults, suffocating them, you know, sexualizing them and calling them fast and growing up, like, can we speak a little bit about that inner child?
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
Oh, please. Yes. Let’s start with the example of your son. He’s loving. He’s operating all of his emotions, right? But then we shut our boys down to only feel anger and nothing else. For us. That’s a false light, right? But there is actually a documentary. I don’t know if you’ve seen it. The three worst words to tell a boy
Dr. Connie Omari
Wow. Okay, let me say it again:
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
Suck it up. Okay. And secondly, because it talks about foul, boys in American culture are socialized to detach from all their emotions and only feel what society says is masculine and safe. But then when they get into these relationships, or they get something, they get into a situation, and they’re supposed to use all of the facets of their emotions, but they are only drilled down to three, and they are left either feeling anger and rage or acting out, right? Or a complete shutdown when they say nothing. Duration, they lose so many pieces of themselves. If they’ve ever been able to know themselves, let’s be very honest, because a lot of times men in our culture will piecemeal what a male is together, right? And they’ll say, I thought this; I didn’t like that. So I don’t want to be like them. But then this uncle, or, you know, my dad, always told me this. Okay, so don’t be like that. But then my grandma told me that men don’t do that, you know, and so they’re like, Okay, well, I’ve got to fit in somewhere in this box. Or in themselves. So when they get into a love relationship and their partner is like, Why don’t you talk to me? And it’s just like how to talk. Right? Whoever cares about my voice, right? Conversely, if they are, here’s the flip side: they weren’t nurtured and allowed to explore all of their emotions. And so sometimes they can come. And they can be their full, vulnerable selves. Their partner could be like, Be a man, man up. I do everything else. And it’s just like, What do you want? Yeah, Sam, because there’s no Frankenstein. And if you look at Frankenstein, he was a piece of everybody’s put together, and he still is. Right? But the girls, you know, especially if you grew up in church, like I grew up in the black church, the church of God in Christ, none of us get the beards and everything else, you notice, and we couldn’t really wear red, and you know, different things like that guy could be injured, you know, you actually have a self-expression and a mouth.
Dr. Connie Omari
Right. Right. Right. And so sometimes
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
It’s that piece of connecting to yourself, really finding out who you are, and being able to give that identity, owning it, and not apologizing, correct? We get indoctrinated with so many different messages, and it’s just like, Okay, I wholeheartedly reject that. I can take a little piece of this; I don’t either, but the other part I don’t agree with, but I see this part. We need to change how we nurture our girls. They’re not always there, and it’s cooking and cleaning and taking care of a house. We had jobs before it, you know, and we are harkening back and still raising our children from a time when, let’s be very clear, Women couldn’t own property. Women couldn’t work outside the home, even to the point where, as recently as I believe in the 80s, women were just given the ability to apply for a credit card on their own because before you had to actually get a cosigner, so when people are throwing this around, why are grandparents relationships? Why can we go back to our grandparents? Because women have rights.
Dr. Connie Omari
Before
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
God bless our grandparents. Some of them had to stay because they had no other option right now; otherwise, they just worked it out and worked it through, and they’re like, Listen, divorce is not an option. There is no exit strategy, but bless their hearts. But now that we have options, we also have to weigh the pros and cons of our choices.
Dr. Connie Omari
love it. Can we touch a little bit more on the adult suffocation piece? Hello girls.
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
Yeah, yes, we can’t because, especially for black girls, right? We tend to develop quicker. So we look; it’s so funny. The younger we are, the older we look. Sometimes we hit this other side, and it goes the
Dr. Connie Omari
other way.
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
You know she’s 13, right? We didn’t want you to dress like that. It’s that piece. And so what we have to do is just learn to see our girls as girls. First of all, it is a child who does affect it. You’re not paying your own bills yet or anything. So just like sometimes we coddle our boys, sometimes he is waiting for that, and we’re extending that same grace and mercy to our girls. And also talking to her about self-esteem. Because girls get picked apart. I mean, I remember being in elementary school, and God
Dr. Connie Omari
They are brutal. Yeah.
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
Now that I know I could go back to my eight-year-old, I’ll be smacking some boys around.
Dr. Connie Omari
They are ugly today. Yeah.
When I was seven, you looked like that at 40.
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
I mean, literally, and the funny thing is, me and my friends have conversations just like the ones from middle school, high school, and everything else that we felt like we had to measure up for. It’s like,
Dr. Connie Omari
I can’t even believe
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
we believe. And I forgive myself; I’m still trying to carry the mantle. Right? Absolutely. But I think, you know, understanding, we have to change the way that we treat and talk to our girls too. So it’s okay to be loving; it’s okay to have a nurturing conversation. And it’s okay to correct our children without cussing them out either. Because we are angry, be mad, okay? But take that rage and anger out on another black body. Release it somewhere, come back, and have a rational conversation. And ask the child, because the child can tell you if they feel safe, what they were doing, why they did it, and everything else. Why they did it Get into the head and understand the reasoning. Don’t think you just know it all, because you really don’t. Because a lot of times parents walk away and say, Wow, get this kid. But you’ve just told this kid that I know exactly what you were doing. Okay,
Dr. Connie Omari
absolutely. Absolutely. Um, where do you see black families struggle the most in regards to the inner child? Love that one way or the other?
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
Both? Because if I ask one, it’s like, Okay, I’m hearing, you need this from this person; this person needs this from you. But do you know what it looks like for yourself? And usually, I will get a deer in the headlight look, or people will start blinking at the ceiling. And then when I ask them, you know, they can’t come up with an answer. I’m like, so your answer is no. Right? So how do you know your partner is not a gift if you’ve never experienced it for yourself? And so, further into understanding and truly peeling back the onion, right? Sometimes. Now, it depends on how deep we’re going, right? Because sometimes we really do have to—I mean, we’ve got to excavate, right? And that may take about three or four sessions, sometimes per person. But if we go through a situation where I’m just like, Ooh, you’re in charge and waiting, reigning supreme, I will send that person to individual therapy if they’re not already in it. And I’m like, Okay, here are some things that you may want to work on with your individual therapist about this, this, this, this, and this. So, a lot of times, it is the love situation and how we communicate because love isn’t an expression of communication anyway. And so understanding what makes a person tick by their triggers, different things like that, and then their expectations So you know, you were talking about your dissertation expectations on marriage and different things like that. This person is not going to fix you and make you complete. They’re just supposed to add to your joy. And when I have these people who have this pie-in-the sky, you know mentality about relationships, I tell them up front that you are about to be really mad and disappointed with me. Because you just lie to yourself.
Dr. Connie Omari
One of the things that’s helped me a lot is just understanding that I want people to give me grace and compassion. If you don’t say, I think we get into these relationships, and we put so much pressure on the other person, but we also are not perfect. And we were coming into the relationship with all of our imperfections, all of our childhood wounds—you know, inner child stuff—and we wanted somebody to love us.
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
But that requires vulnerability. And that’s the dreaded V word. Because what we’re trying to do is avoid that at all costs.
Dr. Connie Omari
costs. Girl, I let you hurt me; I’m not putting myself out there for you. Yeah.
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
You don’t tell business? Yeah. That business. I mean, you get what I’m saying. Or if it is our business, you know, just like that, you’ll be amazed at how many people have a similar story but walk in a different way. So we want this connectivity without trying to really push ourselves to be a better, more well-rounded, vulnerable person. And so we get this, you know, just to set me up as I am. And while that can be as you are becoming your best self, yes. But that does not mean that somebody needs to actually accept you while you are operating at the highest level of dysfunction, either. But it’s not fair. not just the person, but also the person who wants to live.
Dr. Connie Omari
Right? Correct. I love it. I love that. What would you give someone wanting to do some inner child work but who’s afraid or maybe traumatized? And just really intimidated by the process? So
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
Here we’re talking about grace, right? I just said, It may not be your time. It may not be your time; take your time and really think it through. And I ask them, like, What is the biggest fear factor that comes up for you when you think about therapy? Or just thinking about not just therapy but arguing about your story? Right? If the person is just like, I don’t know what’s there, and I don’t know what’s going to come up and come out, And I’m like, I appreciate your level of vulnerability and your experience with fear in that situation. But I encourage them to do their due diligence in finding a therapist to think about. I always tell people, like when you interview your friends, to tell you if they like the therapist enough, or if they even go. And sometimes it’s just like, Okay, do you like reading? Do you like journaling? I help people journal out their feelings. And maybe then they’ll get to the root cause. Another thing I have them do is like a five. Why? Exercise? Ask the five. Why five times, like so say, am I afraid to go to therapy to expose my story? Why am I afraid to go to therapy to expose my story? We think people will judge me; why do you think people will judge me? And so down to the fifth answer to why, that’s generally the root cause.
Dr. Connie Omari
I love that. I’m going to try that. But my kids are okay. Want to eat your broccoli? But no. I get it.
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
But it also helps with those people. You know, people don’t want to get into the feeling zone, right? They want to stay up here. So what if I want to hit you with logic first? Right? So it gets a little safer. But then I also tell them, Listen, it just may not be your time. If you have any other questions, you can always reach out to me. And we’ll have a conversation about it. You know,
Dr. Connie Omari
People come to you to ask for inner child work, or they just work with you. And you realize at some point they need the inner child. Both. Okay, okay.
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
I introduced the topic when I was just sitting there, like, because when I’m talking to somebody or whatever and I see that, you know, you read the body language, right? You see a girl, and it’s just like,
Dr. Connie Omari
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
Right there. What was it? Right? Right. So then you bring it up, and then other ones are like, No, I know, I got this inner child well, because five, eight, and 12, you know, Oh, okay. You can block the load. Let me get these ages down. So we can see other ones that may be there.
Dr. Connie Omari
Okay. Um, therapy is great. Of course, we are both strong advocates for therapy. But what are some other resources that you might recommend for people to check out to tap into inner child work?
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
Use your community—a trusted tribe or community, okay? But also if you don’t have one because you’ve isolated yourself because your inner child won’t go create one. Collusion
Dr. Connie Omari
I mean, one face already says you’re in my Facebook group, but there’s a Facebook group for everything. And they did not create one.
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
And that’s it. Yeah. Between Facebook meetups yet, right? If you are involved in church, if you are a person of faith, wherever you choose to worship their men, join one of the people there and leave as if there is a ghost or somebody lurking in the corner. Sometimes it’s the reconnection of relationships that you really miss. And maybe it has not been damaged. It hurt, but it’s okay. Give yourself the gift of repair.
Dr. Connie Omari
Love that. Any podcasts, books, or anything like that? It can also help. I think
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
so. So there is a wonderful
Dr. Connie Omari
That’s in prison, and prisons are good when you refer that one to me.
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
This is a really good book.
Dr. Connie Omari
Oh, female,
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
Dr. Seema Bryant was talking about how to reconnect with yourself. After having trauma, fear, and audit and trying to make yourself somebody for somebody else, Right. So it’s actually those messages that we received, like, Oh, you should be this; you shouldn’t do this. Do that or not, right? Homecoming is coming home to yourself as a result of her death. Oh, yes, this is a really good book. Also, there’s a book called Greed is Love.” Oh, yes, grief is love. And so it talks about the journey through grief and giving yourself permission to love yourself. And allowing yourself to come to terms with whatever it is, right? And a lot of times, when the inner child wounds, there is a lot of grief work involved.
Dr. Connie Omari
Okay. Love it, limit it. Is there a myth? Common myths about inner child wounds are kind of messing up this black community.
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
Um, the only one I can think of potentially is somebody thinking like, you’re going back and talk to your inner your, your child yourself. Is that like voodoo? No, it’s not. It’s the voice that sent you anyway; that’s when, and you know, it’s different depending on, you know, which cultural religion that you’re in. They say the Holy Spirit goes into the past, is with you in the present, and goes for you in the work to heal the past, get you together here, and set it up for you in the future. Right. So when you’re going back, you’re like, Okay, I release myself because I’ve been held back. You know, I haven’t given this child space to speak. I haven’t been listening to him. I’m going to give her that voice. But then I’m going to tell her I got this, and I can go through it.
Dr. Connie Omari
There’s just one thing, if this whole show, if there’s one thing you want our black families to take away from the concept of inner child work? What would that be?
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
Oh, that’s a really good question. That’s a good question. I think. Get in tune with you. So you can have the best legacy of what it looks like to love yourself through a healing process while recovering from trauma or whatever. Because that’s going to be a gift for all the generations after that.
Dr. Connie Omari
Love it, love it. So you see, if you work on yourself, if you get to the root of it, it’s going to help not only you and not only this relationship, but the future relationships that come along. And something we miss: I think people don’t understand or take into consideration that what they do today is affecting what’s going to happen.
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
Absolutely. We get to parent our children differently. It’s not as if, Oh, we, you know, we have a lot to fear as black people in this country. Let’s be clear, right? But then, at the same time, we deserve to give our children that loving environment, not an oppressive situation, right? And so we want that healthy, loving family that knows how to nurture, really grow, and become a safe space for each other. That’s what we’ve got to give ourselves first, right? So even when we’re having a disagreement with our spouse or our partner, our children are witnessing this, and then Emir. So they learn in Oklahoma, Well, I meet you below the belt, and I’m going to cut you good and deep, and then I’m going to come back, and then I’m not going to own anything. I’m going to blow you off. So it’s going to be a CNS, do it, and then it’s going to cook an egg like I know that nothing ever happened. Oh, wow. Okay. And let me quantify that statement. I am not saying that if a couple is having a big blowout, they should do it in front of the children. No, but this is why it is healthy sometimes to see conflict.
Dr. Connie Omari
and so glad yes. You’re the second therapist on the show who has said that. Yes, yes. See, I went to where I grew up thinking it was just bad. You know what? What I saw was bad. So that’s your other argument. But you know, it’s good that I tell my daughter all the time, especially if she gets mad at me or at her brother. And I said, Listen, isn’t that normal? Like you, you see mommy and daddy—she has dad, Dino Dino—get mad at each other all the time. We still love each other. We’re still supporting each other. We’re still working through it. And we apologize in this home for how unsecure you are, you know, both ways, and things like that, like this concept of not having conflict. It just blows my mind, or something like that. A normal
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
I grew up in a house where my parents didn’t argue in front of me. So I didn’t know my parents had been married 59 years this year. Oh, wow. Doctor County, I did not know that my parents argued. And the first time I heard them argue, I was 18. And I was trying to get ready for school because I was going to college and everything. But when I say I had a whole meltdown, and then their argument, and they ran in my room, like, what’s happening? And I was just like you were arguing, and I was like, You’re getting a divorce. That’s the first thing. And it was like, What are you? What do you mean, it just imploded my world? Because you had never seen it before? Exactly. And I still have some questions to switch over. And then I’m
Dr. Connie Omari
Just curious: do you think your parents 59 years of marriage have influenced your LMFT career?
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
Oh, it definitely has. But I can’t say that it’s all been a positive influence. No. I’ve had to learn to unlearn a lot of things that they did wrong. Be able to accept the overall marriage because you know what I’m saying. Be able to accept me. Then also understand what blended families look like, meaning infidelity is involved and the sound is produced from that.
Dr. Connie Omari
Me too, girl
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
You know, in that, you know, a labor within itself. Their recovery from infidelity is very difficult because people have so many conceptions about infidelity, from the reason why to everything else, but then, oh, now I’m going to tell the world, Oh, I’m leaving. But I love this person with my whole heart, and they’ll never be the same. They have to stay. You may have to work that thing out. There can be a great relationship after that, but you’ve got to work through that, especially if there’s a child produced.
Dr. Connie Omari
I was good to transition into our next spot, but you just touched on something that I really want you to talk more about. I know personal stuff is one thing, but from a professional perspective, infidelity is another. Most people have sex with more than one person. Is that pretty accurate? So and I’m not trying to, well, I’m just getting my own stuff out of this. I’m going to try to take myself out of this. I’m not asking, What is the issue with infidelity? I understand why that’s wrong. Why that’s bad Why it’s hurtful. I guess my hesitancy a little bit and my just confusion, I guess a little bit, is that people put so much emphasis on it. I wonder if that encourages it a little bit from the perspective of our people who are attracted to people with a chronic pattern of infidelity. What does that look like? That’s one thing. And my next thing is this: this? This probably isn’t my stuff, but is there a difference? Like you said, there’s infidelity that produces a child, you know, and then there’s just okay, I’m a man, I need to prove I got it. Let me be stupid for a night. You know what I’m saying? And then there’s, you know, I love her. I’m not going to leave her, you know what I mean? Are there different levels to this? Because I’ve always said I’ve always just thought very much like when I hear the word infidelity or cheating, I always just want to know more, like, if you know what I mean, in terms of whether it’s really between that couple and has nothing to do with it, but I just feel like we’re stuck with all the cheats. You know, I’m leaving in one year, you’re chronically checking yourself to teach cheaters, and so it keeps happening. It’s the self-fulfilling philosophy, and then is there a different level of emphasis that we should place on different dynamics of cheating one versus a baby’s going to bring something where you fall in love that’s going to bring something one does just let me get my rocks off? Let me feel good in the moment, whatever that is. I don’t know. What do you think? What are your thoughts? You’re the expert.
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
Right, because you do have those things where a person is chronically a habitual cheater, you know? And it’s because sometimes, okay, sometimes they felt abandoned and rejected. Right? And so, I was alive all year.
Dr. Connie Omari
especially in our community. I think so many people think it’s normal. Like, especially with men, because I already knew I could tell by the way you were talking, I just assumed it was probably the father. It was definitely my father who had the baby. And you’re just like, Some people just think that’s what men do.
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
But those are the ones who have infidelity throughout the whole cause for them, and then there are other families where nobody has ever cheated. And it’s just your family that ever cheated. Right, but because of some learned behaviors, so grandpa did it, daddy did it, uncle daddy did it, You know? It’s the observed learn to hate behavior. Sometimes it’s the feelings of abandonment or rejection, right? Because it’s like, Okay, well, I don’t feel good enough. So I’m going to seek people out. And I’m going to try to feel good enough. And if we look at it as a set of stimuli, Almost like that, right? So you get the endorphins going off, and everything else and orgasms happen. You get the holy grail of everything. But then you’ve got to come back to reality and cause suffering with the consequences after it’s done if it’s discovered, right? Other times, it depends on the type of relationship. I mean, you don’t understand. It’s, it’s an open relationship. So it’s not cheating, as long as you’re informing the partner. Now, people out here, you dibble and dabble outside of the partners that the person knows about, right? And that’s a level of betrayal and disrespect. Right.
Dr. Connie Omari
And so on, none of which is hard. You can correct me if I’m wrong, but it’s just hard to allow it. And then, I don’t know; I guess I saw it ask that question.
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
I’ll put this here. I think he knows you’re going. There are purists in every type of relationship. And then there are violators of every type of relationship to figure out which one you get. Right, right. Right. Right. Right. Yeah. Go from there.
Dr. Connie Omari
But can a person? I think anybody can be unfaithful; I truly do. Even somebody who’s never done it before. Yes. I’m not sure how I feel about a one-night stand. Or a couple of nights, whatever. And I guess it depends on how invested you are in the relationship, the marriage, or whatever. But I don’t know; I don’t want to say it’s not that big of a deal. But I kind of think I’d be heartbroken. You know what I mean? I think it would just tear me up. But I don’t think I’m that strong. Oh, I’m just, you know, whatever in agreement, we’ve been married 12 years and have two children. You know what? I just don’t know, like the infidelity piece, I think. I think we put more emphasis on it. Okay, I would be much quicker to get out of this bad boy. He was like beating on me. Okay, or taking all the money and, you know, not letting me know, and I just feel like we focus on this thing that I think sometimes we draw, you know, okay, you’re not having sex with them. You’re disrespecting them in all types of ways. You know, I mean, you do it without blaming the woman, but I’m just saying sometimes these things happen when we’re not focusing. But then there are other things. What about respect? What about companionship partnerships, you know, other areas that we might not want to wait for? And you beat the hell out of you, like, what’s, what is the, you know?
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
Yeah. Oh, I get it. And the thing is, all of that can play into it. Or it can be a situation where they have the happiest, you know, home life ever, and I’m saying every need is being met by both sides. And you never thought it would happen, and it can still happen. Absolutely. I think in the grand scheme of things, couples need to sit down because, just like you just said, I work with someone to say, Okay, my husband cheated on me. I will forgive you. I will definitely forgive.
Dr. Connie Omari
Daniel, if you listen to this, don’t be good. No ideas
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
You know, other ones are like, Okay, in the grand scheme of things, in our lives, this person has added so much joy and value to my life. If they messed up one time, I could forgive them, but now it becomes a habit. They’re like, Uh, we have to cross that bridge when we get there. Because I don’t know if Yeah. And just like that, start putting your hands on me. That one time? Yeah. Patient. Right. I think it goes by the priorities of the couple, right? And the hierarchy of importance of things that could or couldn’t happen and really have anything to do with our psyche
Dr. Connie Omari
too, though. Like, I don’t want to beat a dead horse. But if you are more concerned about infidelity, when we know that most people are not monogamous throughout the course of their lives, okay. But you don’t have that same level. It’s also not natural to beat people up. But when we’re not saying it as quickly, oh, well, if he hits me, or if he just calls me the B word, or, you know, whatever, we’re not talking about that type of stuff. it the same way we are about cheating. And it’s almost like, to me, I just don’t feel like there’s an inner child working there that needs to be worked through.
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
Oh, absolutely. Because here’s the thing: when you say that’s not normal, that’s not normal for your family. Correct? Correct. pletely normal. And I experienced this, you know, when you were practicing, where a person is used to verbal abuse and doesn’t recognize when they’re being verbally abused. Right. But if somebody grabbed him the wrong way, they’re like, Oh, yeah, I went to jail last night. He put my hands on me. I’m not even talking to you like that, but you know, my mommy and my dad like that. Okay, so formalized experiences, right? That’s why you don’t see the difference.
Dr. Connie Omari
We’re just curious. I wonder, if we were to tie the infidelity piece, do you think sometimes, especially if a child comes into Venice, they bear a bit of embarrassment? Now everybody knows—you know, or maybe somebody knows the person you were with. I mean, I guess what I’m saying is that it’s easier to hide. Unless there’s like a bruise or something on your eyes, it’s easier to hide. It’s definitely easier to hide emotional abuse. It’s easier to have physical abuse unless he’s just leaving bruises. But sometimes infidelity is a lot harder because people might see them together. Or they might, you know, like I said, have a baby or something born. So I’m just wondering if the humiliation piece, on top of the disrespect, is what makes maybe infidelity a little bit harder than with other people?
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
It could, but as you know, there’s also a cultural silence. Because many times have John and Jane been seen now. And a family member or friend was like, Oh, such as his wife was such a such husband.
Dr. Connie Omari
obviousness, and he will say nothing about you talking.
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
Right. So the humiliation factor sometimes comes in, I think, when there was a big exposure, so, well, child, or, you know, let’s say it’s a clergy person, and they got caught. They’ve got to go in front of the church. Yeah, you know, and andthat’s right, there is a low standard. But, um, yeah, it can definitely do a number on someone’s psyche, but it also goes with the choices and decisions. But when you’re talking about infidelity, too, you have to understand how we define it because people have emotional affairs before they have physical affairs. And this is my work husband, or just my work life. What? What do you mean? Because you don’t get to? Yeah, you know. And so that person is catering to their emotional needs. And sometimes, wow, when the person goes home and disconnects for work, they’re journeying to reach out to the spouse. Right? And that could be considered dependent on a person. Sometimes people will be like, Listen, I could care less with that person at work as they get them up my hair until they get home. Okay. For people who are like, No, I am strictly monogamous, This is the deal.
Dr. Connie Omari
Love it was what? Well, these are all some really great points that you brought up, especially at the end. I really like how you helped clarify some things. I want to transition now to a partner show that we’re going to be wrapping up soon. It’s called what’s good and what’s good. It’s just where I give a hypothetical situation about a potential case you might get, and I’d like for you to kind of counsel us through us or at least tell us what you would recommend for counseling. Okay. All right, me, Jimmy, I always try to think of a name that isn’t someone I know because I don’t want to offend anybody. So alright. Meet Janae. Janae is a 40-year-old African American woman. She is a very successful dentist. And she is married to her second husband and has one child. Janae works long hours and makes a lot of money. And she spends it getting used to life with a blended family. However, she’s very cold and standoffish. She doesn’t have strong relationships outside of her work life. She’s the center of attention with her family; things have to be really on her; she has to be the best in everything. And she has a mean streak, one of which is part of the reason why she’s divorced. And she has a tendency to just really be a part of the cancel culture, even in relationships that she chooses to maintain, by doing things like the silent treatment or just really not forgiving the infractions of others. What if she came to you for therapy and wanted to work on her inner childhood wounds? Where would you start with her?
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
Oh, I will start with a genogram. Yeah, tell us about the genogram, for, you know, in layperson’s terms, if you ever watched the genealogy shows, like Finding African American Lives or anything like that, they go back and they look at, you know, the people of your ancestral history, right? When we look at the quality of relationships and how people formulated relationships and what was involved, and we try to go back three, sometimes four generations, if the person is aware, a lot of times we black people make it the third generation back, and that’s about it. But if we look at the quality of relationships where people marry, were they not? With their substance abuse? Was it alcoholism? Was it?
Dr. Connie Omari
I know that I knew that genogram was what I never knew you could do that with. Family. Okay.
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
Yeah, I take it a step further, though. And I do an environmental genogram, meaning, okay, what area? You know, where did these people come from? What was it like in those areas? Who were they? Who were they? And so that also applies to how we show up in relationships. So, for instance, if we come from a very rural area where our neighbors weren’t that close but everybody knew each other, There’s a tendency sometimes to avoid people being all in my business, right? Because it was nothing to do with Bokassa. And in general, somebody that they knew or were very close to, if not themselves, was the issue that the town had, right? They were always them, and different things like that So they kind of distanced themselves from the growing environment sometimes, right? Firstly, growing up in an urban environment, what was it like? You know, what I’m saying? Were you in a major city’s urban environment? Or were you in a smaller town or urban environment? What was it like? How did you formulate relationships? What messages did you receive? Right? And what did you experience around you? And so then we will likely get to the root of where this perfectionism comes from: the lack of empathy and grace, which is a punitive thing because, in general, there was an injustice where this person felt like they didn’t have the opportunity. So guess what? They’re not going to give it to anybody else either. And then we’re going to explore the roots of what if they knew any healthy relationships? And if they did, what was the relationship they saw as having the most impact on them?
Dr. Connie Omari
And so even if they had a relationship or observed relationships that were unhealthy, you’re saying that still has value?
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
Oh, absolutely. Because when you pick it apart, it’s like, Okay, well, how do they communicate with each other? and in general, it’s going to be chaotic. Or it could be just the shutdown, and the cutoff is like, Well, you know, I got mad; she just gave me the silent treatment. You noticed that someone else also does that. You know, and so the behaviors we use as we kind of go through our coping process to manage conflict
Dr. Connie Omari
and really try to make sure we don’t lose sight of this. I really tried to emphasize the success part of this person. Do you think that sometimes there’s a correlation between people needing to be successful as defined by society’s standards and monetary standards because they feel like they can’t be successful? interpersonally
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
Oh, absolutely. or one of their family members was a black sheep. And so now I’m going to share with everybody what came from the black sheep. And you’re going to need me before I need you.
Dr. Connie Omari
So you had to call me out like that. Oh, Shehu. Okay
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
It definitely happens to you to sit around a little like, Good lord, but yeah, you know, perfectionism grades and you know, the theme and different things like that, making sure that even if you have cousins, nobody’s going to outdo you. Which
Dr. Connie Omari
talks? You know, I think it is so important, though. I’ve really gotten into learning a lot about high-functioning depression. Yes. And we glamorize these things. And it’s rooted, like, in our culture and stuff. Because even if we want to take it back to slavery, I know your time is valuable. So we can wrap it up soon. But if you want to take it back to centuries ago, you know, the better you were, it’s like you believed to be better; you just wouldn’t be. I think it’s natural to want to be better and be at the top. And it’s taken me a long time to realize that some of the motives and some of the desires are, in a way, fraud.
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
Yes, but I want to go back to the example that you talked about. You know, if you were there, but let’s just say, okay, in the south, it was sugar cane and cotton. Right? We already know what one little piece of cotton looks like. Right? It Right. And it took forever, right? First of all, it’s a cotton picker. A lot of times, they were struggling to make sure that they could actually go back home. Because they’d be semitones. And not only that, no, not even just at home, they didn’t get sold, just as they were slacking, which you need a lazy slave for, right? For your family. Survival and keeping your family intact Right, and protect the younger generation so that they don’t have to experience what you’re doing; you can teach them to be just as good, if not better. And so anyone else, sometimes it might have been a situation where they didn’t, you know, get taught to lie down at home, you know what I’m saying? You just never know; it could be that, but in general, it’s like, Okay, you were the best; you stayed on that plantation; the master was good. And they gave you privileges. So, you know, with blacksmiths and carpenters, they were leased out to other farms. So they had the day passes, which they can actually use now if they have them, so sometimes the day pass was at the plantation where their family was too. So again, maintaining that status and standard is important so I can get the privilege of doing what I need to do or whatever it is.
Dr. Connie Omari
Gosh, that was such an eye-opener.
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
Okay. Thus, the remnants of PTSS
Unknown Speaker
post-traumatic slave syndrome.
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
Yeah. So, you know, there’s a lot involved with all of that, you know what I’m saying? And even like, you know, I was talking about earlier, when a slave person chose to leave the other ones who stayed home, they got, I mean, they would, they would torture. But then you’ve got to reach up to get, you know, through that and everything else until the next thing happens. Oh, that’s all. Listen, that’s a dynamic within itself.
Dr. Connie Omari
We’re going to have to come back and talk about that for real. What’s our Nina? This has been a pleasure. I’ve really enjoyed interviewing you.
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
You and I have enjoyed this time that we’ve spent together.
Dr. Connie Omari
So I know we’re going to have some people who want to get in touch with you. So make sure you send me the link to your practice. Are there ways that people can find you online?
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
Yes, so I am on Instagram, Tiktok, and Facebook under agape, and that’s agape. He’ll wellness.com, that’s the website, but then take off the.com, and that’s all social media. I got healing
Dr. Connie Omari
wellness. Yeah. Healing and healing, and with agape healing and wellness Yep. Yep.
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
And then also, like I said, I used to co-host podcasts myself; it was thoroughly tudo therapist. We stopped it, but you know, you can go back and listen to that information. on there. And so yeah, and then, like I said, if you see me in Charlotte when I’m visiting, please come say hi to me. Or if you see me, you’re either visiting or you happen to live here. hollamby
Dr. Connie Omari
will do awesome. Yeah, I hear that. Holla at Mrs. Dr. Anita Samuels. Alright, Jimena, thank you so much for joining us today. It has been a pleasure interviewing you.
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
so much. I really appreciate you, this platform, and this podcast that you’re doing.
Dr. Connie Omari
Thank you so much. Thanks for coming, and have a wonderful day.
Darnita Samuels, LMFT
Thanks, and you too.