Dr. Connie Omari
Hello, hello, and welcome to the black Marriage and Family Therapy Matters podcast, where we are breaking generational curses in the black community. Today’s guest is Dr. Shawn Fuqua, LPC. Hi, Dr. Shawn.
Dr. Shawn Fuqua, LPC
Hello, and thank you for having me. I’m so glad to be here.
Dr. Connie Omari
Thank you for coming. It’s been a pleasure talking to you. I’ve already been talking to you before we started, and I’m glad we hit record so our audience can hear how wonderful you are.
Dr. Shawn Fuqua, LPC
Thank you. I appreciate that. And I love your introduction about breaking generational curses; we are changing the game, so I’m thanking you for the podcast and bringing information to our community.
Dr. Connie Omari
Thank you so much, and thank you for joining me on that. I know today we’re going to talk specifically about the mother-daughter relationship. So we’re going to get to that in a minute, but for now, I just want them to know the amazing work you do and a little bit about us, if that’s okay with this year, which is now absolutely awesome. Dr. Shawn is the doctor who helped me pronounce your
Dr. Shawn Fuqua, LPC
my first name. Okay. So my government-given name is Sharn for chakra. Yes. Bashar, named after my father, Richard Grace,
Dr. Connie Omari
okay. Got It is affectionately known as Dr. Shawn Short, and she is an LPC with almost 20 years of experience working in mental health. She specializes in unearthing generational trauma in women, which we’ll be talking about today. Dr. Shot is an author, educator, and therapist with a private practice. Very good, awesome, awesome. Well, that was a nice, quick summary. Why don’t you tell us a little bit more about how you got into the business of being a therapist?
Dr. Shawn Fuqua, LPC
Oh, absolutely. Other things that I would include in my bio include being a mother. So we have a blended family of seven; I’ve given birth to two children; I’m also helping raise my husband’s son; and he has five children. I am an advocate and educator. So I also teach at a couple of universities, teaching new students psychology and counseling courses. And the question that I often get asked is, How did I get here? How do you get to 19 years of doing therapy and being a professional? Actually, my background? Yeah. Well, you know, my bachelor’s is in business management. And I say that because, you know, starting out of school, I had no desire to be a therapist, and I laughed because it really wasn’t something that I thought about; I wasn’t unfamiliar with therapy, but as you know, especially when we think about 20 years ago, it’s not at the top of our list. Yeah. And with my job at the time, I was an auditor, so I would go out, and people would share these stories with me about things that happened to them. You know, a woman had kind of found her husband in bed with another woman; you know, somebody had lost, you know, my father; and things like that. So I would go in, and people would share these stories. And so what I decided was that I wanted to learn how to listen; I still didn’t, and I didn’t know what to say. My thing at the time was never, never judge. Just listen, and, you know, especially as people are pouring out these sensitive topics, just listen, but I wanted to listen and then be able to say something. So that’s actually why I went back; I didn’t necessarily believe that I would sit down and have a private practice and, you know, be doing what I am doing today. So that’s kind of the long version of how I got started in therapy. And so often I tell my students that the field will find them, but you don’t necessarily find them in the field.
Dr. Connie Omari
I love that. I love that. And I just want to bring a quick point out that you mentioned because you said you started as an auditor. I don’t know if you want to clarify what that is, but I know that it’s like tickets, at least for the person being offered it, because audit it, and I guess, like you said, it will find you because I like that you would listen, you know, because people are violating policies and procedures and things like that. Yeah, sometimes it’s intentional. You know, they tried to get away with a lot of human evil. You know what I’m saying? A human life with human experiences I mean, I know someone who just got into trouble when their husband was going through something like cancer. I’m like, Of course she didn’t have to step outside because she was fighting for us in life. So I just think that’s amazing about you—that you know, even as an auditor who probably had a checklist
Dr. Shawn Fuqua, LPC
because I did care enough.
Dr. Connie Omari
to at least listen to what people were saying.
Dr. Shawn Fuqua, LPC
So good. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
Dr. Connie Omari
So yeah. Can you share what type of auditor you are? So
Dr. Shawn Fuqua, LPC
I was an auditor for Headstart, a federally funded national program for early childhood education. Okay, so yeah, they mean that when you get funds, when the agencies or the schools or whatever site gets funds, they will send somebody out to make sure that you are following federal regulations. And so that’s what I would do. And so I had, like, this whole large area. And that’s what I did throughout the years; I would go in with my checklist, you know, making sure that they were meeting the standards.
Dr. Connie Omari
Awesome. Awesome. So you’ve always had some level of passion for service? Absolutely. In Headstart, you still care. Yeah. So that happens. Yeah. How long? Were you an auditor?
Dr. Shawn Fuqua, LPC
I did. They’re almost five years old—I think five years.
Dr. Connie Omari
To do that for five years. And at some point, you’re like, Okay, I need to transition to therapy; did you have to go back to school?
Dr. Shawn Fuqua, LPC
Oh, wait a minute, doctor. Oh, it didn’t happen like that.
So during that time, yes, I did decide to go back to school. So just a little bit about being an auditor for the county at the time the county oversaw the program to move up: most of the people had master’s degrees already. And so I knew that I wanted to move up. And I was a very young mom, a single mom, and a headstart mom as well. And so I knew that I would have to go back to school, and I actually started going back to school for business management because I wanted to own my own business. And yeah, so I started out there, and I took a few business classes but didn’t like them. But I knew if I wanted to move up in the county, I would need an additional degree, and the job cut funding to the program. So the federal government was cutting the grant. If you work in any type of nonprofit or agency around there, when you receive funds from somebody else, that is a possibility. And they cut the grant. And so my position was cut. The good thing was, though, that I had gone back to school. And so I just decided to go for HR. Okay, when I went to the program, they were getting rid of the HR program. And they told me that I could use some of these skills in terms of communication and active listening if I took these counseling courses, and I could still do some things and get something like this HR certificate. So that’s how I signed up. So it was never thought about as therapy. It was never thought of, but it really, as I said, found me. And it was a wonderful experience going through that program.
Dr. Connie Omari
Nice. Nice, nice. Awesome, awesome. Awesome. It’s amazing how when one door closes, another one opens. Absolutely. It’s like a nice little transition for you. So I’m glad that you shared that because I think a lot of us, just, you know, we get news like that, Man, you lost the contracts, and that’s not the only thing we can focus on. Absolutely. We missed the forest for the trees. So thank you for sharing that. So okay, then you now return to counseling. So how did you get to tell me how you went? Because, you know, what we’re starting, we’re just open to pretty much everything. Did you always know you wanted to work with mothers and daughters? Or did you kind of transition into that?
Dr. Shawn Fuqua, LPC
So, as you know, when I started out, I was working with women, and a lot of times it is very easy to associate with or connect with people who look like you or have some similar situations to you. And so when I came out of the counseling program, I thought I would work with women and do these family education things about being a single parent or, you know, dating as a single payer and all this other stuff. I was still not doing therapy but doing these educational programs. I love speaking and doing workshops because I did a little bit of that and started working with the parents and kids, and I always enjoyed working with parents. But again, as I said, I was a headstart parent myself. So it just seems to be a natural connection. And in my therapeutic journey, as a licensed professional, I did not start out working with women. It’s just interesting because, even when I think about the journey to get here, it was working with domestic violence. And I also had to work with the offender as the one who was offended. Um, I worked with children who were in the foster care system, or if they were coming back home for the first year, they would send some professionals in to kind of monitor, not necessarily the first year but the first six months, so I did that. So why did I think I would work with women? It took me somewhere else. And it was in that space that I found my way to education and teaching. Having taught a few classes or done workshops, I was able to find my way to a local university. Back in Michigan. Guy, I have to say I’m from Michigan, even though I live in Georgia. Now because I’m always from Detroit. Detroit Eastside.
Dr. Connie Omari
Awesome. You said you live in Atlanta.
Dr. Shawn Fuqua, LPC
I live in Atlanta now. Yeah. Cool. Cool. Cool.
Dr. Connie Omari
You’ve been around black folks like forever.
Okay, cool. So, by default, you’re going to work with the black community; you don’t really have to do a lot of marketing for that because that’s who you’re surrounding. Just by the way, in case we have somebody that wants to work with you or the light, where are you licensed?
Dr. Shawn Fuqua, LPC
I am licensed in Michigan, and I’m also licensed in Georgia, making me perfect at providing telehealth. I do 100%. Telehealth. I also do behavioral health coaching. So I do have people who are outside of both of those states that we do some skill building with.
Dr. Connie Omari
nice, awesome, very good, very good. That’s what we need. We need so much, so thank you so much for sharing. I’m so glad we started because you wanted to work with women. But she did that for things like domestic violence and stuff like that. Now you have your practice. And so you can be very, very clear about what concrete means, correct? So you found your niche to be women, mothers, and daughters. Correct? Yeah. Okay. Okay. So you know, when I hear of these relationships, I have to say, I’ve had all types of stuff happen in my life. But one thing I cannot relate to—I mean, I’ve been angry at my mother, but I have the best month. And I cannot imagine a life. Like it’s just minor to me, I genuinely enjoy my mom. And that’s why I’m not trying to be insensitive at all, because this is probably the normal visual population that doesn’t have that experience. But I just want to share what my life would be like, because she’s so meaningful. She’s such a great asset to my life that when I hear about these estranged mother-daughter relationships, I just can’t imagine. But you, on the other hand, hear about him; I hear about him, too, but you specialize in them. So please, like, tell me what you see the most in a mother-daughter relationship. relationships that are
Dr. Shawn Fuqua, LPC
complicated? Um, oh, that’s a good question. So I just kind of want to clarify a little bit when I talk about mother-daughter relationships, which extends to anything from learning how to communicate better with mom to letting mom know you are an adult woman without being disrespectful to the mother wound, which is a term that we use when we talk about attachment. That may have been misdirected. Are you familiar with the attachment styles? Do you have the insecure attachment? Yeah. We have disorganized attachments. Sometimes this is known as an insecure attachment. There is an avoidant attachment. Where you begin to shut down, you don’t share. And then there’s anxious attachment, where you really are worried about somebody breaking up with you. And then there is secure attachment, which is always the goal. And so what we know about attachment styles that actually develop when you are under three years old is that this is how the baby bonds with those caregivers, especially the mother, because there is a genetic piece there. When the child bonds with that caregiver in those early years, it determines how you will relate to a mate or an intimate relationship, not just intimate relationships but friendships as well, because it creates an emotional connection or disconnection or lack of sort of something’s missing, those emotions aren’t communicating to the brain. You know that when you have a need, someone’s not meeting your needs, or when you have a need, you don’t know what to expect. And so that’s why they said it was very important. What happens in the first three years of life? So to bring it to the work that I do, the mother womb talks about what happens when that attachment is lost. There is some type of misconnection or disconnection when the attachment just isn’t there. And so what you asked was, What do I see the most? and Why do I have a few women that fall into that category? Many of them are somewhere in the middle, where, just like their dick, good relationships are decent relationships. I will say I’ve tried to even stay away from the words good and bad, but they’re their relationships. They have relationships with their mother, but it’s like, maybe I still feel like a child. When I am talking with her, or maybe she is overprotective. Sometimes we call it worth bearing. So it’s more of that, and the person is frustrated but still wants to honor and connect with their mother. So we find that people are somewhere in the middle of that mother-daughter wound and are just really trying to strengthen that mother-daughter relationship.
Dr. Connie Omari
There are two things I wanted to add to what you’re saying. The first one is that we were talking about attachment styles. I was reading about this person who was going to volunteer at an orphanage in an African country. And he was anxious about it because he said, Oh my god, there’s going to be all this crying, you know, all of this, all these babies, honestly, is going to drive me crazy. And the person who’s the writer says, No, it’s not going to be very loud. And he said, Well, why? And he said, Well, because when children, as you were saying, are used to crying and nobody is coming, they stop crying. And lo and behold, he looked at me; he’s like, It’s neither here nor there.” And that just breaks my heart. Because I must say something about my household. It’s just loud. I hear it all the time. But it just broke my heart. Because I mean, and just to the second part, I’m glad that you’ve clarified, you know, that it’s not typically on the extremes, that it’s somewhere in the middle. Because when I hear that, I think of just a lot of personal relationships that I know with people where I see them, like laughing and connecting and caring a lot about their mothers. But at the same time, it’s almost like, like you said, a childlike relationship the way my daughter would with me, and she’s eight, because people are 3840. Correct, you know, kid? Request, certain things are standard, you know, still do mommy say correct, you know, stuff like that. So how does that work, then? Because, you know, it can’t be healthy. You know, it’s not that long. But come on, like, how do you work with that?
Dr. Shawn Fuqua, LPC
It’s not. So a lot of times, when you find yourself in the space, if you feel like some of the things that mom is saying make you feel like a child, one of the things we first begin to talk about is boundaries. Do you have any boundaries? And so when you were a child, you mentioned your daughter is eight, and I said we have seven; they’re all adults, almost so one, thank you. But we’ve had enough experience that when they were younger, we, as parents, created the boundaries for the children. And as they got older, your goal was to expand those boundaries. And so when they are teenagers, you want to expand that a little bit more. But that doesn’t happen if you haven’t allowed appropriate space when they are younger. So they feel okay about expanding, exploring, and stepping outside. Because what happens as an adolescent is that there is a natural developmental piece where you begin to separate yourself from the parent. So there are some natural things that should be happening. And then, when you become an adult, you adapt to a different type of relationship or become a different type of parent. We don’t have these conversations because you don’t fully understand. Probably doing the same thing that was done to you or what you feel like you should be doing. There is that separation. So you have mom, and it can be a dad too, but I deal with mother-daughter relationships, but you have that parent who is still treating you like you’re eight, so you really don’t have an opinion on whether you should be doing this. That’s a bad decision. And so that’s why you sit when you have people who are 3848 in adults and who, when they’re around their parents, feel like they can’t say anything. And then a few also add in some of the nuances of African-American families. And what I mean by that is, you know, respect is something that we hold in high regard. The mother is held in high regard. Yes. So, um, it becomes very careful. But to answer your question, the first thing we do is begin to work on his boundaries. How does that adult woman set boundaries, not just with her mother but with anybody else, because usually, if it hasn’t been set with her, it hasn’t been set with others?
Dr. Connie Omari
Exactly. This is why we’re going to have so many questions, and I’m assuming that you’re working mostly with the daughters. I’m wondering how this looks; are you actually working with the mothers too? And I also want to know, Well, it can use it.
Dr. Shawn Fuqua, LPC
at first and you’re working on, so yes, most of the time, the woman that I’m working with is the daughter. I have had people who have come in as mother and daughter or, and this was in the bikini of this, the mother wanted to come in, the daughter wanted to come. And so I moved away from that, that the mother can come or the daughter can come; I do not see both of the women anymore because sometimes I just want her, whoever she may be, to feel free to speak however she needs to speak. And sometimes, you may not have the words to articulate it in a beautiful manner. So I just said, Just talk, just put it out. And so because of that, I don’t want them to think that I’m going to go back and say something to the other one. Or it may lead to presidential thinking or how I feel about the other one if I don’t. If I don’t know your mom, I haven’t seen your mom if I don’t know your daughter. So the woman that comes sometimes is the daughter, and sometimes she is the mother, like you might be a mother, and you know, I don’t know why my daughter doesn’t talk. You know, so yeah, it could be either one, but I don’t, not anymore; it was rough.
Dr. Connie Omari
The next thing, I can’t help, but what I think about our community, you know, I mean, a lot of times people who can afford, you know, to go to a private practice might not have as extreme barriers, but they still do, like there’s still racism, there’s still oppression, there’s, you know, sometimes it was funny a gentleman if you offered like a sliding scale or something like that. But even if they don’t have it now, they likely had it growing up at some point in their lives. Financial limitations, just safety, you know, all the things that affect food and nutrition, all the things that affect our community, and our domestic sexual violence, like you’re talking about, does not discriminate. And I’m going to hate to say this, and I’m thinking of a particular family myself, and it’s almost like that was going on; it was domestic violence. And the three daughters never challenged her because they knew she was going through so much. So it’s like, you know, I’m going to let mom treat me like a child because mom can’t handle any. You know, she’s got to change. And, you know, again, this is the old school, you know, mindset, but how, you know, do you handle things when you have those additional barriers? And, you know, it’s not like if you could just sit down and say, Hey, Mom, I’m a grown woman now, you wouldn’t be in therapy to begin with. So how do you break through while also being sensitive to all the different variables that make up the black they have?
Dr. Shawn Fuqua, LPC
One of the things I will say about that situation that you described is that you have daughters who now have their main concern and their focus on the mother. That right there is something that would have to be deconstructed and reconstructed because the child cannot take care of the parent. But sometimes you do see children who look out for their parents because they see their parents struggling. The other thing that you have to elaborate on is
Dr. Connie Omari
because we went over Dr. Oats head here, so we can’t look out for our parents. I mean,
Dr. Shawn Fuqua, LPC
oh, yeah. So I often tell people, You can’t pour up into a cup. When you think about energetic exchange or influence, The parent has a genetic connection to the child. And when you are talking about a child trying to look out for a parent, while you can get an emotional feeling from what a child may be, do, or say, or you know that your child may be excelling in school, that will not heal your wounds. The healing of the wound has to happen from the inside. Now a parent can do that for a child because there’s a genetic connection. When it is a mishap or misdirection, it is actually called transgenerational epigenetic inheritance; we call it T E. I’m going to say it again, because
Dr. Connie Omari
You email me so I can, I can
Dr. Shawn Fuqua, LPC
trance generic generational epigenetic inheritance And so what T is is the genetic exchange that happens between a mother and a child, where a mother can pass on trauma. And so what we understand about epigenetics is that while your DNA structure or cellular structure does not change because you may have experienced trauma or have been traumatized, as you mentioned, we talked about sexual assault, domestic violence, and racism. Just when you think about how we have been socialized in this country, it’s traumatic. And so we’re on guard; we carry that in our cellular structure, which has passed on to our children. So when you talk about a child who cries all the time or doesn’t cry, a lot of that comes from that experience and the way that it’s healed. If you’re dealing with a child, a parent can bring that healing to a child; a child can’t bring that to a parent; he’s still with me, okay? So what I encourage people to do is realize that when you realize there have been some unhealthy behaviors or things that are triggering, as an adult, you can do the healing. And that’s when we do shadow work or core work. A lot of times I call it healing the inner child or things like that. But you have to do inner work in order for that healing to happen. And so that’s what I mean when I say you can’t have the child heal.
Dr. Connie Omari
the finger, you see an eight-year-old child now a 38-year-old child, you say that 38-year-old child can’t heal mommy?
Dr. Shawn Fuqua, LPC
No, you can’t just do it because you didn’t come from my chi; you came from her; she didn’t come from you; she could do it. But the challenge is that when you are an adult, it doesn’t make a difference. If Mom heals at that point, your framework is already in place. And so it can only come from you doing your own healing; it can happen in childhood. So if mom goes to therapy, you have an eight-year-old daughter. Mom goes to therapy. And let’s say for the first eight years, she didn’t know what she didn’t know. But now she has the opportunity to actually change herself and her child.
Dr. Connie Omari
So then the 38-year-old’s responsibility is to do the shadow work for herself. Correct. And if mom wants to get on board, great, but if not, my self
Dr. Shawn Fuqua, LPC
correct. And you can still be okay because, as in your adult brain, you’re able to understand that mom, before she was a mom, was a little girl. She was a woman; she was in a relationship; you can understand that. But prior to that, that was my mom. So I don’t necessarily even see her having an origin story. And a lot of times, those are the things that we break down in the therapeutic relationship. And we begin to talk about her mom, your grandmother, you know, and a lot of times it’s a good relationship with the grandmother if it’s a strain or a strange relationship with the mother. But when we started to talk about that, I was like, Well, how did mom get along with her mom? and she was like, Oh, well. It’s a generational thing. And so again, there are things that you mentioned, like finances, environment, racism, and a lot of other factors that can contribute to why you feel like you’re not getting what you need. From your mother, you can understand that as an adult when you are a teenager. You don’t understand that.
Dr. Connie Omari
Yeah, you’re so true. I mean, certain things I didn’t realize until I became married and had a child myself, don’t you think? Oh, Ma, she would do it too badly. Right, I’m doing my best and I’m sure messing up, so, um, let’s touch on this because I know relationships are, you know, that’s really what we’re about, whether it’s intimate partner relationships with our children, relationships at work and in, etc. Can you tell us more about what you’re observing live? We’re not handling this first relationship with our mother well. How is that showing up in our other relationships with people?
Dr. Shawn Fuqua, LPC
Okay. So it will show up, I have to say and explain again. You know, for the black community, a lot of times we have heard about what happens when the father is absent. But if you have a present mother who has experienced trauma herself, who has been emotionally dysregulated, or who does not know how to deal with her emotions, there are going to be some things that you will experience from that as well. It’s going to show up in your relationships, and it can show up in your real problems. obvious skills, you will more than likely have issues regulating your own emotions because you don’t have a marker or beginning. Definitely with your intimate partner. Yes, you can see it if a father is absent. But there’s also that attachment we talked about earlier; when that attachment is missing, how you connect and see people is going to be affected because you’re going to be yearning for or looking for that connection because it was missing from your early experiences. And while I talked about this, I always told people, This is not to blame others because we don’t know what we don’t know. But one of the things that I tell people is that it’s not one thing, it’s not the only thing; we have several things that we are dealing with at one time. When you think about the ecological system, which is a theory from Urie Bronfenbrenner, he talks about the micro system, which is your home; the mezzo system, which is your community and your surrounding environment; and the macro system, which will be society. So when you think about how black people have been socialized in society—racial discrimination, microaggression—we’re still dealing with things, seeing things on TV. When you think about the mezzo system with church, you know, we’ve talked about that offline. Or if we have an extended family that thinks a certain way, the schools that you have been to or attended have an influence, and then you’re home. And so you have a lot of things going on. So this is by no means to make a mother, you know, get defensive. But if it’s something that makes you feel uncomfortable, is there a way that you can improve? A lot of times I say, If you feel something, let’s do some soul searching on that and see where we can dig in and see what we need to pull out, what we need to examine, what we need to heal, and what we need to let go. So I just wanted to say that because sometimes when I start talking, I feel like a mother. I’m in, and I end when I read the book, which is called I have it next to me. I forget your name, but when I read the book as a mother, like my mother stuff, you know, did I do something to my girls? I was a single mother. But what I know is that, as a single mom, they miss some things, and I will give them my best. But now, as someone who’s more educated, and years later, I’m like, Yeah, of course, they miss some things because I was doing this by myself. And this job is not meant for us to do it by ourselves. So before I dug in too deep, I just had to do my PSA: this is not about the mother, but I want the mother to understand that if there is something in the mother-daughter relationship, your daughter won’t be able to give it to you. What you want to do is encourage her to go get help because you did the best you could. And then you do some self-examination. People have to seek out support.
Dr. Connie Omari
I’m glad you said that. Because if there’s anything I can say about my relationship with my own mom, and then I’ll talk about my relationship with my daughter, it’s that it’s not the absence of conflict, adversity, or difficulties. It is the acknowledgement that yes, I messed up. You know, I get it like, Oh, don’t do what I can. You know, I understand that our understanding of a person’s paying validation I wouldn’t say with my daughter, I mean, thank God, some of the time because of that, I’ve been able to know that. Okay, well, my mom said I didn’t have to make some mistakes she made, so I don’t have to, but I’m making other words, like you know, and by the time you know, I’ve already come up with this parser. You know what I’m saying? That means for four months, I did not see my children. And I think you mentioned three thank Gods he had just heard, you know, so I feel like, okay, we beat that part, but there’s no way I can say that. That didn’t affect the investigation either, which lasted for most of my child’s life. Of course, I did my best. The story—this is actually a beautiful story of what I was trying to do— But it had a consequence, a domino effect, in that the recall caused me to be taken out of my duties. So I want to ask your permission if there’s any feedback here. Can we as mothers accept, okay, that we’re going to mess up and that one is brought to our attention because so many mothers that stack will deny that there are any problems, and I’m like, yes, because everybody got problems, you know, but sometimes it’s such that the wall is so high that the mother-daughter isn’t even able to say, Ouch, that hurt. Yes, yes, we as mothers just go ahead and accept, Look, I’m going to mess up, and I’m going to mess up again. I hope I don’t go to prison. Did you?
Dr. Shawn Fuqua, LPC
Not? Yes.
Dr. Connie Omari
So, I mean, what?
Dr. Shawn Fuqua, LPC
Absolutely. So let’s back up a little bit. One of the things that I share when you are working with me in therapy is that it is a five-step process. Okay? And so when we talk about acceptance, I can say that before we get to acceptance, we have to get to awareness. And so sometimes we’ve had things in our lives that we aren’t really aware of. Again, going back to black women in general, often I talk about how we have been sent to this country to produce when we got here, black, black, in chains. Right, black women have never as a people been given the luxury to rest and be taken care of. We took care of other people. So even then, up into the 1960s, black women were domestics, housekeepers, and children’s caregivers, taking care of other people’s children. And even then, when you think about your grandmother, she either worked or she was taking care of somebody’s children if she wasn’t taking care of aunties, uncles, or, you know, her own siblings. And so, as a people, black women’s health has always worked. And we have always taken care of others. And I’ve mentioned that because I’m talking about awareness now. And that’s one of the reasons why I do have the conversation: I was like,You’ve got to look at who you are and what you’re bringing to the table. And I’m telling my good sisters, it’s okay to stop; let’s catch our breath. So the first step is awareness, and you’ve got to have awareness if there’s going to be healing. Then we have acknowledgement. You have to say it out loud, speak it, or write it; you don’t necessarily have to tell everybody your business. But even in your spirit, if you can just say it and just know that this happened to me, you shared and talked about your experience of being incarcerated. And they’re not talking; we talked off, you know, offline. I said, I appreciate that. Because you’re not, I’m not going to let that hold me; I’m not going to have that as a secret or something that will bind me and shame me. So we have that awareness. And then we have that acknowledgement that it happens. The next step is acceptance. And so when you talked about the story of can-can mothers, can we just accept it? Yes, we can. But the other two steps have to be in place to know that we are not perfect, that we will make mistakes, and that we don’t know everything. And sometimes that can be a hard dichotomy to let go of because of the standard of a mother and her role and how society sees us. But that’s why I tell black women, We can’t, we can’t, we can’t use the yardstick to measure. That doesn’t mean I don’t want to be the world’s best mother to my children. But I can’t use their way of doing things. Because my story, my backstory, and my origin story are different, And so for her mother, I want her to know that it’s okay to say that I made a mistake. And I had to do the same with my daughters. They were adults at the time. I’ll just go back and apologize. Yes, I got defensive. I’m not going to tell you to get defensive. My daughter said some things to me, then started talking about you as a therapist. and I was
Dr. Connie Omari
the worst when the therapist said yes.
Dr. Shawn Fuqua, LPC
And when I mentioned it, when she said it, I did have to sit with my feelings. And it was my best friend, who’s a therapist, who just said, It’s okay for her to feel that way. And I was like, This is almost like she’s writing. A film isn’t right or wrong. The film is just communicating information. And if my daughter felt like I didn’t give her what she needed at that time, She has a right to feel that way. Even if it hurts for me, and I had to sit in there. And then I came back and said, I’m sorry, that was never my intent. And then she was like, That’s all I need. It wasn’t an apology. That’s all she needed. was all she needed.
Dr. Connie Omari
I love it. Black moms, it’s okay. You’re not weak. You’re not a bad person. You’re not admitting that. Everything they are saying is, you know, correct. To be
Dr. Shawn Fuqua, LPC
No, you need
Dr. Connie Omari
to just hear you. Yeah, that, ah, I’m not to get tears like that is everything. And is everything you just hear what I’m saying and just care? Just care. You know? I love that, and I want to say congratulations to you for being able to find the words to say that because studies
Dr. Shawn Fuqua, LPC
Yeah, it was not easy. And I’m saying to let people know it’s not easy. It was. It wasn’t even being a therapist; it was somebody just bringing it to my attention to say, Fillings aren’t right or wrong. They’re just communicating information. And you can’t tell somebody else how to feel.
Sure. You know, that was my seed. Are you sure I can’t tell them how to feel? And it was? And you and you in camp? When you have
Dr. Connie Omari
That makes sense, though, because I know you did your best. You don’t use zip for a fifth. Okay, for sure. You mentioned on the show that you were a single mother. That’s hard. It’s hard. I mean, I’m doing it with a husband. And it’s hard. No, I can’t imagine having all of that responsibility. On just you. And it’s like, you know, like, a teenager or a kid, and they won’t have any real connection to it until they become parents themselves. So yeah, that’s not easy to do. And I’m just so glad that you were able to have that moment with your daughter. So I want to hear the rest of the steps. But it sounds like, you know, I’m sorry, at least the concept of it is somewhere tied into what needs to happen.
Dr. Shawn Fuqua, LPC
But we talked about a policy. So let’s even talk about, Oh, I’m sorry. Okay, even though I say apology, that is where you try to make amends for your behavior and make a conscious effort to not do that again. So you come back with, I apologize. So we’ll go one step ahead. The first one is awareness; then acknowledging it? Yep, say it out loud or write it somewhere. But just being able to admit it means we have acceptance, and acceptance is almost like bringing it in. So it becomes a part of your story and a part of your narrative. This is one of the things that’s really important, because when you’re dealing with trauma—violent trauma, sexual trauma—when I talk about acceptance, sometimes that concept is hard for people to understand. I said acceptance doesn’t mean it’s right. It’s just this: this is my story; this is what happened to me; you can’t deny it because your body still holds the experience; your body hosts trauma. A really good book that talks about how the body still holds the experience is a really good book that talks about how the body still holds the experience; you may even release it in here. But you also have to know that your body is holding it. So even if you don’t tell yourself the story, the body knows. So that’s why acceptance becomes important because, when you bring it in, it gives it a chance to release, and you get an opportunity to put it wherever you want, not in the dark. But this is my story. The next step after that is action, and action is where the work begins. And I say work because now I have to be mindful of my behavior. And now I might have to use self-affirmations. Now I have to really change my actions and behaviors. And so that’s where the action you’re putting forward comes in. I’m doing something different. And the fifth step is ascension, and ascension is just how you get to that higher self or to a better version of yourself.
Dr. Connie Omari
Love it. Love it. Love it. Clarification: why can’t we just say I’m sorry?
Dr. Shawn Fuqua, LPC
You use it because you’re not sorry. Meaning you’re not; you’re just sorry. And so you’re not if you just apologize, and apologizing is again, like I said, making amends, but we move away from I’m sorry, because you’re not sorry. It’s not that you didn’t mean that it wouldn’t happen. But as a person. You’re not human. You didn’t know what you didn’t know. You know? Right. Yeah, exactly. So that’s where I go. I tell him we’re moving away. And even when you think about it, it’s funny because the girls text me before I come on here. I don’t know how you got what my dad is because, you know, that was like 30 or something years ago. But one of the things I chuckled at was, Why was I 19 at the time? My 19-year-old self doesn’t know all that. I know now what my 19-year-old self thought—that he was killed. I’m not sure I have a list of all the things that make a good bother. He was killed. He was kicking Gay. That’s, you know, so. So when I say I’m not saying I didn’t know what I didn’t know, then I’m just out here being me, or if I use physical punishment to discipline my children, if I cuss you out, if I scream, or if I’m, you know, petty, I didn’t know what I didn’t know then. So now when we talk about I apologize, that is to make amends and to do something different.
Dr. Connie Omari
You said the fifth step was ascension? Yes. And I learned, as I’ve learned a lot of times in these phases, that people don’t make it to the fifth, the last day; it’s like they don’t stay there; they kind of come back. So what are some, I mean, and you’re talking about, I mean, you really are like, most people don’t want to be great. Most people just want to do their best. But they don’t want to, like you talked about higher levels; I mean, I want to still strive for that; we’ll just, you just want to exist; and what are some things we can do to kind of be a medicine? We’re just killing our relationships with our daughter.
Dr. Shawn Fuqua, LPC
Um, so we go back to that action stage where you have to do the work. And so in the action stage, especially if you’re working with a therapist or any type of coach, they’re going to tell you that you’re going to fall short and make mistakes. And so I think that’s also one of the biggest pieces to help you get to that level of knowing that you are fallible and that you will fall short. When you find yourself kind of dipping down, what can I learn when I doubt? How did I get here? And so once you learn how you got here, you’re able to move forward or to move up and do things that keep you from falling back down. And that happens in any of those areas of your life. And so I’m not sure I’ve been married three times. And I do talk about that openly. And so I got married to my children’s father, and I got married again when I was 30. And then I got married again when I was 38. No, actually, I was 46. When I got married, I met her when I was 38. And I’m not saying that you won’t have relationships where you break up, get divorced, lose your job, or something like that. But when you’re at that level, what did I learn from that last experience? Be willing to learn instead of kind of fighting it or seeing this. This is a reflection of me, or am I a bad person? Could some of that be you? Absolutely. But sometimes it’s just life. And so, you know, what do I learn when I’m here? That helps you. So if I slide back down, I’ll know when I get that second chance. So just like with my third marriage, you know, communication was key; being honest and open about our needs up front took our time before we actually got married. And so there were just some things in there that I learned from those other experiences. So it’s not that it’s perfect, but it’s very different. So I am at a different level, another level, a higher level. That makes sense. That makes
Dr. Connie Omari
a lot of okay. I mean, I think the flip side is, you know, some people stay in these marriages that are not working because, especially in the black community, we don’t get divorced. You know, our moms didn’t agree, and our grandmas didn’t agree. So you stay with something that’s not working. They don’t get the benefit, like you, of learning because they keep doing the same thing over and over again. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, that was very, very helpful, and I do see where the higher self comes from because you’re taking these previous experiences to be better. Show up better today.
Dr. Shawn Fuqua, LPC
Yeah. And learn from them. Love self-awareness, going through that EQ, also known as emotional intelligence, that self-awareness, self-reflection, motivation—what’s your intent? You know, really, what was your intent? And it really also comes back to you and what is in you. When I say what is in you, you know why? Why do I want to be in love? Do I feel like love is missing? You know, it’s like those kinds of questions. And when you’re working with a professional, you can answer those questions. And I’m throwing that out there. Because oftentimes, we don’t have time to do that type of self-reflection. Remember, I said, we’re working, we’re taking care of business, we have children, we have jobs, we have businesses, and all of these things So when you think about questions like that, we don’t get a chance to do that. And again, that’s where therapy comes in, or having your professional help you get to your best self, because you talked about a lot of people being good when I say existing, being average, or just existing, just getting through the daily life, and how do I get to my better self or my higher self? Number one, you also have to realize that there is another version of you waiting to come forward to really know that we don’t struggle. We weren’t born to struggle, but for us as a people, that has been very much a part of our narrative, and so I try to encourage people that
Dr. Connie Omari
Yeah, we want to survive. We don’t want to thrive. Alright. Sorry, I’ve got to say it. The black church plays into that
Dr. Shawn Fuqua, LPC
Yeah, so it plays a major role. So I have to do my disclaimer: I am originally a church girl. When I say that my grandfather was a minister, my mother and three of her four sisters are still active in the church and the church community. And so when it comes to my beliefs, I have a foundation of Christian principles. Um, I, wherever I have to do my, however, I don’t know how I would classify myself now. But because I’ve been charged and raised in church and have also gone through church hurt, I had to stop and go back to church again. So I do not say that, but knowing some of the things that I see and how we’re groomed—and I’m using that word intentionally—and what we’re told, especially women, it keeps us in a box. And there’s nothing wrong with leading your life with Christian principles and the strong belief that the Bible provides. But there are also other parts of the Bible that we leave out when we talk about spiritual death, spiritual quickening, and listening to the Spirit. We are spiritual beings having a human experience. Yeah, yeah. And so you don’t hear a lot about what that means. And how do we nurture and guide our spirits? And so yeah, the black church definitely plays a big role because there is misinformation, miscommunication, and limited information, which is why it’s very important that a person who is in charge and who has some maturity do their own. It’s hard for new people because you really don’t know what you don’t know, and you’re trying to figure it out. But if you have some maturity, it’s important that you do your own research and figure some things out, especially for women, because a lot of times our stories are limited. And we’re not told how powerful we are, as spiritual beings, as mothers, or as keepers of the womb, because I say that a woman can give life not only physicalthatbut through her words to her family, to her husband, to her, you know, whoever she’s around with children that do whatever, just because of who she is and how she has been created. But that’s another conversation. It is
Dr. Connie Omari
It is, but I still love that I love it. And I also love that you mentioned, first of all, that you made church hurt because I think that’s something that people were still struggling with, to admit to it that you went back, you know, because the thing is in life, and this is just what I’ve learned with my old growth in each condition is that, you know, the church is also made of imperfect people. Yes. pinners. You know, we’re all sinners. So a lot of times, people in the church are the representation. Yes. You know, sometimes we have to do our own work because usually everything you’re talking about goes back to doing. Yes. And that’s where being able to get past these transitions comes in, whether it’s with the church, with your mom, or with your daughter. That’s really where it comes in. And it’s not a yes; it’s not a here; it’s in here. I asked you about the church, but you didn’t spot it; now we’ll put you on the spot with it. This was probably going to be easier. systemic racism, colonization, you know, the Jim Crow, like, how has all of that affected our ability to live in the ascension stages? And I ask that because my husband is actually African. So I’m directly exposed to some of our roots, you know, just like my connection to him. And one of the things that I see, whether I’m there or whether I’m just interacting with him in his style, is that we are naturally some of the most creative, spiritually inclined, and spiritually attuned people. I mean, we really like that most African cultures are spiritually connected. And then we come here, you know, with this Eurocentric mindset, and a lot of that gets diluted. I mean, it’s slavery, if you spoke your African language, and if you, you know, practice any of those traditions that they killed, you don’t, I’m saying you’re sold off. Do you feel lost connection? And what I’m hearing you say is, you know, the more connected you are with your higher self, the better off you’ll be. But we’ve lost that in our history. Is there anything you want to say? Like, can you speak to that? So do you see that in your practice? And if so, what can we do to kind of get some of that?
Dr. Shawn Fuqua, LPC
So, you know, 100%, absolutely, how we have been socialized And I know I’ve said this several times, like, you know, even now, there is debate and infighting about people, black people, and how we practice and show up in our spirituality. Because if you aren’t doing it this way, you definitely have to be going to hell, or it’s considered demonic. And so what we have been taught when it comes to column colonization is still plaguing us as a people. We do have to, as I mentioned, and I love how you said it is going within the boundaries of having quiet spaces. So I’ll take the example of meditation. You know, if you mentioned meditation in some church spaces, that is considered That’s not Christianity; those kinds of things But what I tell people is that meditation is listening to God; if you are a believer, you have to be quiet. Praying is asking and talking. So how do you get there? How do you know if it’s time for you to move, or go, if your mouth is moving? So, you know, meditation is one of those things that I think is important. It doesn’t have to be long. It’s not necessarily what you see, you know, on videos or on TV, but just by being quiet and still, there is an inner voice. For some people, it can be considered the Holy Spirit, that God voice called the higher self; there’s an inner voice that will try to communicate with you, especially if you are asking the questions. So that’s one of the things that I think can be very important. I also say getting the nature Now again, you sound like a tree-hugging lady. Well, the sun is an energetic entity to shine on you to make you feel good; you turn around the sun, the sun warms your skin; the sun, actually, when it comes to research, spending 20 minutes in the sun can help with depression; spending 20 minutes on green grass can help putting yourself up against a tree because it has energy as a live entity, as a plant, if you will, but it has energy. So those are some of the things that I tell people that they can do. It doesn’t have to, you know, clash with Christianity; it’s just knowing that, you know, God is using these different things around us to try to communicate what you have to say. Yes, you are a spiritual being; yes, I’m trying to cook, you know, nurture and feed your spiritual presence, not only through church or through the Bible, through socialization, but through some things around you. I want to talk to you; I want you to commune with nature, a being and water, you know, natural bodies of water. And so those are some things that I will say when you’re trying to, you know, get to the spiritual energy, just as some beginning things along with doing your own research,
Dr. Connie Omari
I love that love. And that’s something I think we shouldn’t do when we have these beautiful trails around the house. I guess by we, I mean this is so and it’s true, because when I’m out there just hearing the birds chirping, catching the little squirrels, whatever, yeah, it’s beautiful. So thank you very much for that. Um, what is a myth that you’d like to book in the black community about mother-daughter relationships?
Dr. Shawn Fuqua, LPC
A myth. So that’s the goal. I guess what I would say is that there are probably more challenges than we like to admit. I don’t know if it’s necessarily a myth, but you don’t speak negatively about mom. And that’s why I also have to say what I say: this is not for you to say publicly. Don’t put things on Facebook, even if you do. Even if you are in therapy. This is not for you to go back to your mother and talk about what you learned, but now I want to tell you.
Dr. Connie Omari
Yeah, please don’t say the therapist said because I was tired, people put me in the middle. First of all, half the time it’s not worth it. What? Yeah. And it means you haven’t. If you want mom to be open to it, then don’t corner her and make her feel like she’s under attack.
Dr. Shawn Fuqua, LPC
Yeah, yeah, no. I mean, that’s it. So I think the myth is that, you know, especially coming off of Mother’s Day, we celebrate Mother’s Day in the month of May. And it is interesting that it is always so conflicting with me; I too have a great relationship with your mother, both online and offline. With my wonderful relationship, I’m so grateful for the mother I had, because what she did was always create space for me because I’m more like my father. And my sister is more like my mother in terms of being the quiet, demure woman I mentioned growing up in church. So she’s very reserved, and I’m a little bit more on the other side. But it was never like she tried to shut me down or quiet that part of me. And so I’m grateful to have a mom who always creates a space for Shawn to be shot. I say that to say, when the holiday comes up, I know a lot of people have good relationships. But then I know some people who don’t have good relationships; they’ve got to act like they do. And then some people are just hurting. Some people are very conflicted. And I’m talking about women’s daughters. And so, you know, like I said, I don’t know if it’s necessarily a myth, but I know there’s so much more that goes on. And the woman often feels like she can’t talk about it. Maybe my mother will have to pretend like she has a great relationship with her daughter because her friend’s daughter is the other mother’s daughter. So we can’t let people know, you know, we’ve got to act like we’re, you know, good like everybody else. But you really don’t talk to me, except on Mother’s Day and my birthday, or, you know, send text messages instead of calling and come into
Dr. Connie Omari
relationships where I know they’re not good, but they seem to be those of the mothers that get the most roses, you know, whatever, on these days, and I’m like, Well, what about the other curette? You briefly touched on this, and I want to make sure that we don’t transition before we can give it the attention it needs. Why? Why would you say mothers and workspace in this relation are dynamic? Why are we treating our daughters differently than our sons? What is that?
Dr. Shawn Fuqua, LPC
Oh, you know,
Dr. Connie Omari
You had two girls, right?
Dr. Shawn Fuqua, LPC
I had two girls. And interestingly enough, I’m raising my husband’s son, and it’s definitely a different lens; he is a sweetheart to such a gentle, gentle soul. So for all my moms who have sons, I’m like, Oh, I get it. It’s different. It is really, really different. It. So I’ve had some experience with that just from my studies. And what it seems to be is that the expectation is different. Not that you don’t want your daughter or your son to go to school and do well, maybe, but I think when we talk about developmentally—remember I said adolescence—there are some things that happen. In adolescence, there are some things that happen in childhood developmentally. I think when you have a mother and son and a father and daughter, what we get from those parents is different. So a lot of times, if the son gets what he needs at that early age, when you see the adolescent age, what he’s given to the mother is different than what the daughter is giving. And so, uh, you know, a lot of times you just have a mother who, you know, doesn’t give me a lot of problems, or if you want to see her smile, make her happy, do things, whatever. That exchange between the male child and the mother is just a different exchange. And so when we talk about that, because, as I mentioned earlier, we talked about that in that life span development class and what happens under the Freudian belief, even though it’s still a theory that this challenge exists, there is something that goes on between the male child and the mother, as well as the female child and the father, in terms of how it develops and who we become. So I think that’s why you see some of the difference between the mother son and the mother daughter, where you don’t get a lot of that. And that friction that you have when you have two females because what’s happening during adolescence is she’s becoming a woman. We add in, you know, the menstrual cycle, so physiologically, hormones, you know, chemicals that are coming where I’m just trying to be me. And you have two women, or, as I say, two queens can’t exist in one kingdom; we’ve got a queen and 14. But the problem is that she doesn’t know. Right? So, yeah, just a little insight. But, as I previously stated, my studies led me away from that. It was too deep. And I didn’t have my son at the time. But now that I have him and he’s been with us for years, I’m like, Oh, I see why mothers do this because nowadays, oh, my goodness, yeah, I could have done this, you know, with three of them. So
Dr. Connie Omari
yes, Lord. And it’s hard because, at the same time, we have the same dynamic in our house. You know, my daughter does this. But for me, I don’t know if it’s the mouse. It is like the mouse; he does it. And if I ask her to do something, I have to explain her rights and why she feels like I need
Dr. Shawn Fuqua, LPC
to hop in the role of mother’s eyes to suck another tooth
Dr. Connie Omari
to her benefit, my son sometimes doesn’t do it, but at least it ain’t all it is. Anyway, thank you so much. So you know, we really want every single piece of really great stuff here. And I know that you’ve got some mothers and daughters who are going to be healed. There’s a portion of the show now. It’s called what’s good. And it’s basically where I just like to give a hypothetical situation and pick your brain to see what you might advise. Can I do that for you now? Absolutely. Okay, so me, Janelle Janelle is the youngest of three daughters. And she is a 40-year-old African American woman. She is now married with two children. But she has a relationship with her mother, who, as you mentioned earlier, does just bad stuff. But it’s not great. She can’t do things like split up her daughter or her children in front of her mother. Her mother talks critically about her husband in a way that’s not appropriate. And she’s having a very hard time standing up to say, You know, stop. How would you advise her to move forward?
Dr. Shawn Fuqua, LPC
There are also a couple of things that are going on here, like where she is in terms of age. Um, so I’m going to start there and talk about, you know, what happened over the last 20 years? And how many spaces was she able to use her voice? This is one of the things that we might actually start talking about in the conversation, unless she’s ready to kind of dive in deep to talk about mom. But you also mentioned that it’s not necessarily a bad relationship. So sometimes, when you come in, I’m not going to dig into your mother. This is not mother-bashing. This is not blame. Never, ever blame But that will be the first thing I want you to do sometimes. I’m sorry. The client sometimes wants you to blame them. Oh, yeah. It’s easier. You know, if I could put it on my heart and it’s not on me, okay, no, so. So that would be the first thing you know: over the last 20 years as an adult, how many spaces were you able to use your voice? Sometimes we have some space, and sometimes they look in and say, Wow, I never really have it. I also mentioned it earlier, so they will talk about boundaries. So I will want to know the boundaries that she has with their husbands, the boundaries that she has with their children—are there any boundaries?—and really monitor and listen to see if she projects on her daughter. We’re talking about mother-daughter relationships. Right? So how does she treat the son? Do the kids see her treating things differently? So we’ll start with those things first, in terms of conversation, and then we’ll go into what it is that, um, she needs. I hear respect is one of those things, which is why we also want to make sure that she’s not projecting on the children because it’s easy to require and demand respect from our children, but it could go to some critical ways with our children as well, which is something you see Mom already doing with her about her husband. So my first piece and working with this situation is to get her to see how her behaviors show up in this relationship because that’s what we’re going to dissect first. Then, when we talk about mom, I will bring in some empathy and understanding. I remember that she already does some of these things to her children, and we’ve talked about where this came from. Okay. And then the next piece of that is, like, how to bring up that conversation about Mom, what I need from you, or how this hurts me. And I don’t know if I wouldn’t necessarily tell her that she has to have a conversation; that wouldn’t be more of like, if I’m talking with the person, I might have her write a letter to her mom that she doesn’t give her mom, and then we come back and we dissect it in therapy. It might be her just opening up more spaces and realizing, I’m not a little girl in with mom, she becomes critical or starts talking about my husband, Hey, I gotta go, you know, or, You know, we have been here long enough, thanks, Mom. We enjoyed the day, or I was just stopping by, but how can she end it? And she doesn’t have to sit there and take it. Because this, again, is not about teaching her how to attack mom or go in. But you mentioned that there’s not a bad relationship. It’s kind of in the middle. So she feels like her mom is one who is open to hearing, and we would talk about how to have that conversation.
Dr. Connie Omari
Awesome, awesome. Awesome. Well, these are really great. Just great tips, great feedback—I can tell you’re an awesome therapist. And you know what I can really tell us—you’ve done a lot of your work. You’re just doing some syncing; you’re just picking up on so much stuff that goes on in the therapeutic relationship. And I just think it’s awesome. I think it’s awesome. Because now we’re coming to the therapeutic relationship as a healed person or a person who’s killing because we remember, correct? That’s helpful. I want to make sure I don’t forget to mention MIT; you know, you’re an author, so tell us,
Dr. Shawn Fuqua, LPC
yes. Um, so I do have a book; I actually have a children’s book. My children’s book is called Growing Places with Bailey Day. Okay, so growing places with Bally de Oh—what a feeling! So I started a children’s book series. This is the first app; the second one has to come out. But what I wanted to do was help us start the conversation at an early age. We talked earlier, and I’ve said a lot of times we haven’t talked about emotions or emotional regulation, like it’s okay to feel. And so I’m going places with Bailey’s story about a little precocious seven and a half-year-old who asked a lot of questions and how her mother tries to answer those questions. And it also has tips in the back on how parents or people who work with children can help children process those questions and things to do when children have big feelings. So that’s the book, wrong places with a bad name, this Miss Oh, what a feeling.
Dr. Connie Omari
Awesome. Well, so we’re going to make sure that we get a copy of that link so that our wonderful audience can get it if they want to. And if you also give us a link to your practice, that’ll be in the show notes in case somebody wants to work with you. Or are you an individual orange? Do you have a group practice?
Dr. Shawn Fuqua, LPC
I do. I’m a solo practitioner. And so I am at capacity now. And I laugh because I’m, you know, a truly doctor. Oh, when I opened up the practice two years ago, you know, during COVID, people were coming out of COVID. When I said I did mother-daughter relationships, I was full within a month. And it really has kind of kept steady, so you don’t have people who drop off, but there’s a waiting list. And like, yeah, yeah, so it’s not always the big stuff. The other book that I want to mention that is not mine is good. If you’re just trying to explore and do better, read Mother Hunger by Kelly McDaniel. She actually goes into the adult daughter so she can understand and heal from loss through nurture, protection, and guidance. And so she deals directly with the mother. And it was reading her book that made me say we have to have conversations as black women about this because, again, our origin story and our narrative are different from theirs, which is why I want to have the conversations. If you can get in, call me; we’ll put you on the list to get on the podcast and share information, but we want to heal.
Dr. Connie Omari
Amen. On that note, thank you for sharing your words of wisdom that will assist our audience with healing. It’s been a pleasure to interview you today. I just learned a lot. So I know our audience a little. Are there any final words you’d like to leave with our listeners?
Dr. Shawn Fuqua, LPC
Um, no. I just appreciate you keeping on doing what you’re doing. And if you need anything, you know how to reach me, and I thank you for having me. And thank you, audience, for listening. Appreciate the time somebody is trying to learn how to be better when it comes to mental health.
Dr. Connie Omari
Very good. Very good. All right, well, thank you for coming. Dr. Shawn.
Dr. Shawn Fuqua, LPC
likewise. Have a good one. Take care, bye-bye.