Dr. Connie Omari
Hello, hello, and welcome to the Black Marriage and Family Therapy Matters podcast, where we are breaking toxic patterns in the black community. Today’s guest is Mr. Chris Matthews. Hi, Chris. Hey, how are you doing? Good. I’m good. How are you? Oh, well, though. Well, good. Well, it is an honor to have you here today. Would you mind if I introduced you to our audience? Absolutely. Awesome. So Chris A. Matthews is an award-winning marriage counselor, professional speaker, and author who specializes in repairing personal and professional relationships. Chris has been featured on Good ABC, Pix Elevens, New York Living, and NPR radio. He is the founder and owner of relationship counseling group PLLC and behavioral health intervention center, LLC, which are two mental health practices based out of Charlotte, North Carolina. Chris is a licensed marriage and family therapist, a licensed clinical addiction specialist, a certified clinical counselor, a certified life coach, and an approved supervisor for the American Association for Marriage and Family Therapy. Chris holds both a Master of Science degree in organizational leadership and a Master of Arts degree in marriage and family therapy. For more than a decade, Chris has worked in a variety of settings, providing counseling, coaching, and training to a diverse population of couples, organizations, and leaders. When Chris is not working, he spends his time with his wife and their three lovely children. Chris his hobbies include traveling, mountain biking, cooking, hiking, and journaling. Amazing, amazing, amazing. Wow, Chris, you’re pretty busy. How do you manage all of this with what you’re doing professionally?
Christopher Matthews
What I do professionally is my calling. So my work is integrated into my life. My wife is actually in the final stages of completing her degree in marriage and family therapy.
Dr. Connie Omari
Wow. Do you matter,
Christopher Matthews
so, she’d like to say, yes, she is black.
Dr. Connie Omari
Wow. So yes, yes. Yes. Book her on this show next. Go ahead and send her a link. And we go and make this happen. But yes, I love that. I don’t think I’ve met one other couple that was a husband-and-wife duo. That’s why Black and White people do it all the time. We, you know, are not doing that. So much, but you all are, so tell us what that is like. Marriage and family therapists like mindsets? How does that work?
Christopher Matthews
We meet a spouse, and you meet his kids, and you get to grow into adulthood together. It makes it a lot easier to transition. Oh, so
Dr. Connie Omari
Yall have been together for 18 years? I’ve been 14 married, 13 married.
Christopher Matthews
awesome. 14 married, 18 together.
Dr. Connie Omari
Wow. Wow. Literally, what high school will probably be the first freshman college freshman in college Okay, and you try to date anything. That is awesome. Well, can we start there? And you know, obviously, you are an expert in this. You’ve written Marriage Underdogs: A man’s Journey to Matrimony.” So we know the ropes and how this works. But how in the world was I reading a study not too long ago? And it did. I think we think in our community that we have to date more people in order to be prepared for marriage. But I was reading a study that actually said that people who are connecting with their earlier partners, if they’re able to connect, can stay together longer and experience a more fulfilling relationship. I’m just wondering how, but a lot of times we don’t think that way. How has that gone? How do you stay together for 18 years?
Christopher Matthews
Quality over quantity: believe in the quality of the relationship, and it starts by getting to know who you are. But my wife and I had a great understanding of who we are, or who we were, and then who we wanted to become, so it was easier to find a helpmate. When you understand your strengths and weaknesses, your partner can supplement and cover your blind spots. My wife is more of an introvert than an extrovert. I get energized by people. She gets energized by alone time when we put that together and create this mixture, plus I always tell couples, You want to find somebody that adds more than what they take away, and the relationships should be positives. If you have a negative person or someone is taken away from you and you could do better by yourself, then there’s no point to being in the relationship; relationships will be a supplement and an add-on to what you already have. So my wife and I were young, we were already pursuing degrees, we were leaders in our communities, and we were already trying to do well without each other. So when you put us together, it’s now just this explosion of excellence.
Dr. Connie Omari
I love it. I love it. You know, it’s funny because I’m not going to love when you first said, You were both married differently, therapists. In the back of my head, I’m like, That’ll be outside of my struggle. Instead, the Navy did the same thing. I wonder if that’s boring. You know, but I love the way you kind of rephrase that, because it’s like, yeah, we might be in the same career, but we’re completely different people, and even though we break, we still complement one another.
Christopher Matthews
And marriage is a lifestyle. Marriage isn’t something you just do; it’s something you live when you think about a personal, healthy lifestyle. It’s part of who they are. My marriage isn’t a detachment from who I am; it’s an additive to who I am.
Dr. Connie Omari
It’s basically it; it’s not just a February 14 thing, right? You
Christopher Matthews
Every day is Valentine’s Day. And we have a person who’s not just somebody you work with; they’re your best friend. There’s someone you raise children with, cook with, clean with, travel with, do business with, and you think about all the different levels of intimacy with. That’s my partner, and I get to experience all those levels of intimacy: financial, recreational, physical, emotional, and spiritual, and that’s easy; it’s easy to be with your partner. A lot of couples are looking for somebody just to have because they don’t know who they are. My wife and I have always given each other the space to continue to learn who we are so we can come together. Marriage is a shared space; you bring all of you into that space with another person. And it should be a space that grows you, not takes away from who you are.
Dr. Connie Omari
It’s funny that you are bringing that perspective up because I’ve been married for 12 years. So and I can tell you around the same age bracket, and I noticed that in our community, you know, when you’re discussing marriage, in your 20s. Can I assume you’re in your 20s when you get married as well? So, I don’t know if this was relevant for you. But for me, I kept getting the perspective of Wait, wait, wait, wait until you’re older, wait too, you know, you have dated multiple parts, you know, all these things? And, um, I guess I’m mentioning that because one is not biblical. We’ll talk, you know; I don’t know if we want to go if you want to address that one. But just in general, you know, there’s this perception that, I guess you said, quality over quantity. So obviously, with age, there’s more quantity, like there’s more time, but we’re not learning the skills and behaviors and things, and I know that for me, basically, you said marriage is a lifestyle, like marriage is a commitment. That’s the only practice with commitment that gets you ready for commitment. You know what I mean? It’s not dating multiple people that doesn’t really get you ready for commitment, because that’s a different type of mindset. So how do we break that mindset of, Okay, well, I have to date her for 10 years before I can, some people say 20, you know, or we can just live together; our marriage is just a piece of paper, you know, it doesn’t really matter. How do we break those mindsets so that people can experience marriage the way that you’re saying it? Because I think people think they have to give up themselves.
Christopher Matthews
And we break their mindset by defining marriage. And a lot of people are familiar with the Disney movies, including Fully Ever After. Marriage is the start line, not the finish line. Everything you’ve done before marriage was the prefix, which was the warm-up. And a lot of people were living in the warm-up and then never even starting the race. They never even started their journey together. My wife and I got married. There was a reset button, despite having spent several years together. And we didn’t cohabitate for long prior to marriage. You’re right, commitment is the major piece, but what are you committing to? You’re not just committing to who that person is. When you get married, you’re committing to who they are. You’re committed to who they are now, and you’re committed to who they’re going to become. So, being mindful to have a perspective, I always use the analogy if you’re familiar with sports. The NBA season just ended last night. There’s a draft when an executive is drafting a player. We think about the last NBA MVP, right? Yanis yoke EJ in B. There are three foreign players from different countries that may not have grown up playing basketball, but they were exposed to basketball in the latter stages. The executives who drafted them weren’t picking them based on their current talent level; they were picking them based on their trajectory, or the projection of where their talent would grow. That’s how you look at a marriage, especially through a physical lens. A lot of times, men and women look at someone, and how they look in that moment I would say if you’re judging by looks, look at their parents. Caring for success means looking at characteristics; you can’t teach character. One of the things I noticed about my wife was that she afforded me a level of peace. She produced through conversation and time together a sense of peace, and I tell people, My wife is my peace, meaning she’s a part of me, she’s a part of me, she’s my rib, but she’s also my peace, meaning in her space, I gained the ultimate level of peace: rest, recharging, satisfaction, friendship, I can confide in her, I’m safe, I’m able to be vulnerable, and I’m able to express all sides of myself. And that’s what I’m married into. I’m married into the Trump projection. Because the marriage we have now we didn’t have at the beginning, or the marriage we have now we may not have in the future, it’s going to get better. So if something’s not getting better, rowing, living things die, but you have to find the trajectory point, not where the person is just at that moment.
Dr. Connie Omari
I love that. I love that. I love that. Chris, what I’d like to ask you, um, and so what I want to ask you is that you have such a positive outlook on marriage, which obviously is necessary for you to be able to describe marriage the way that you do. But it just amazes me that people have such a negative outlook on marriage, and I’m afraid that they can’t get to where you’re talking about if you go into marriage thinking, Okay, you’re going to have to give up your freedom. Okay, you know, women, all we do is nag me. And all they want to do is have sex and cheat—you know, stuff like that. You’re not going to experience the narrative of marriage that you’re describing. So how do we get there? How do we even change our mindset so that we can even begin the process of looking at marriage as if it’s valuable?
Christopher Matthews
Marriage isn’t a destination. All those things that people describe as destination points—they’re expecting their partner to be at a place or to stay at a place—there are a lot of moving parts. Your ability to move through life with a person is how you rate a successful marriage. There are going to be seasons, there are going to be moments of trial and tribulation, and there are going to be moments within the marriage where your partner may not be as accessible. My wife and I had a lot of moments in our marriage where there was long distance. There were moments in the marriage where she worked third shift during those seasons. The creativity of keeping the connection alive was the journey of marriage. So that took skills that we brought into the marriage. It also took, like you said earlier, a level of commitment. But commitment doesn’t have to be torture; it doesn’t have to be a sense of how we come together to make sure we’re constantly asking what it takes to meet your needs, my needs, your wants, and not everybody needs to get married. I’m not this person who says everybody has to get married. Now, if you decide to get married, understand what you’re signing up for. And that’s the missing piece. A lot of the components of marriages that fail are in alignment with what I talked about in our marriage: underdogs break. So there are about 10 different characteristics based on research that are indicators for a higher probability of divorce. Some of those indicators are things we don’t even control. For example, if two partners come together and both of their parents were divorced, they are 200% likely to get divorced themselves. Oh, wow. If you have two children within 18 months of each other, you’re likely to have a higher rate of divorce. Really? Yes. If you talk about money at least twice a week, your likelihood of divorce is high. Right? And there are several others. My wife and I exhibited seven characteristics when we got married under the age of 25. That’s a characteristic. Yes, it
Dr. Connie Omari
really okay.
Christopher Matthews
So what I did in the research was align these characteristics with the marriage underdog’s brain, because an underdog is someone who enters a competition storyline, and they’re already counted out. They’re looking at what the natural defeated person or party is. And you have to be aware that if you’re an underdog, it’s going to require that you work harder. It’s going to require that you go to the table with different levels of strategy. You can’t just do it the way everybody else does it because you don’t have the benefit of the statistics. My wife and I have been here, the minority being in poverty when we got married and already having a child out of wedlock. We also cohabited before marriage. That’s five right there. So when you think
Dr. Connie Omari
that last one because people don’t understand that cohabitation before marriage is an indicator of marriage. But you’re admitting that’s absolutely true.
Christopher Matthews
Right. A little bit, right? Okay, that’s a very popular conversation. On Instagram, I put a video out about how cohabitation before marriage can lead to divorce and got a lot of pushback from people. And my famous line that I use around why cohabitation is not an indicator of successful marriages is, Why would you buy the cow when you get the milk for free? So what I’m saying in that statement is,
Dr. Connie Omari
I know exactly how to get
Christopher Matthews
If a woman who’s providing cooking, cleaning, and intimacy is getting all of these different benefits that come with commitment without committing, then why commit? If a woman is getting those same securities without committing, then what makes marriage different than dating? So that’s the biggest issue with the cohabitating piece; you’re saying, I’m willing to give you all these things without even having the committee. So then what happened is that when couples get married, the satisfaction may drop, or those levels of commitment that might have been perceived to be there based on actions are now altered. And then there’s an attachment when that takes place. Because the couple says, Well, before we got married, we did this. So now the marriage is to blame for the changed behaviors, whereas the commitment wasn’t solidified. So when you enter marriage, you’re entering into a commitment. And you’re entering the sign-up phase of, Hey, when I get mad at you, I’m not going anywhere. When you’re not married, you can get mad, and you don’t know what I always tell couples when they’re dating. It’s man. I don’t know if that was a big argument. We may not make it when you’re married; that was a big argument. I got it.
Dr. Connie Omari
Yeah. It’s different. Yeah. You look at finances; you’ve got kids; you look at them in law, and you’re like, Do I really?
Christopher Matthews
Pressure. And that added pressure is the commitment. when you’re halfway through a journey. And you’re in the middle of the desert, looking back, and you’re like, Man, I’d have made this far. I might as well keep going. And that’s the same reason why a lot of marriages continue to need it to stop. Right? On the opposite end of it. There are some marriages where there’s like no physical
Dr. Connie Omari
violence. Sure.
It kind of went out a little bit. You said that’s the reason for some marriages.
Christopher Matthews
That’s why some marriages need to dissolve, not dissolve, or stop, right? Because some people will stay in a marriage too long, they’ll subject themselves to abuse, disrespect, and not being treated, right? Because of the pressure of the commitment. So commitment is a double-edged sword. Sometimes that pressure to commit keeps people in America too long. Sometimes the pressure of commitment may prevent them from even considering marriage.
Dr. Connie Omari
Love it, love it. Love it. So you’re talking from the black male perspective, which I think is interesting because we’ve been getting quite a bit of that, although some from women. But so why is it that, I mean, before we pressed the record button, you were given some statistics? I don’t know if you remember about the 30% of black males. I’d like you to talk about that. And tell us from your research or what premier studies Why do you think that is?
Christopher Matthews
So based on the most recent census data, 30% of black men were identified as married at the time the census report was conducted. I would say,
Dr. Connie Omari
which means that 70% were not just to make sure
Christopher Matthews
We were right at the time. Okay. Yeah, so that doesn’t mean only 30% were ever married. They’re accounting for the current number of black men who are married. And I believe that the most recent one was in 2021. So at that time, when they did the reporting for 2020, which was published in 2021, only 30% of black men were married. What that data does is it doesn’t indicate how many black men are non-residential active fathers, couples who are cohabitating, or couples who are cohabitating; it just looks at the actual marriage number itself. And black men were lower than whites, Hispanics, and Asians. So we were the lowest out of all three of the major ethnic groups in terms of percentages of marriage. Now, there’s a marital wage premium. So there are premiums that come with being married; married men make more in their lifetime. And married men make more over their lifetime because of the characteristics that come with their ability to commit. And that’s something that black men are able to always see: the benefits of marriage, their tax deductions, their breaks—there are a lot of different economic advantages to being married. But at the same time, I’m not saying go get married for economic advantages either. Right. I also believe that there’s a lack of conversation around the different traumas that have plagued the black family, which may reduce the likelihood or desire for certain men to get married.
Dr. Connie Omari
Can we have that conversation? Now? Let’s have it. Okay. What are some of those traumas?
Christopher Matthews
Well, first and foremost, when you think about the single parent epidemic that was brought on with the welfare movement, that’s a conversation that’s not typically had. It wasn’t that black men didn’t want to be present; if you have an economical disadvantage because you can’t find employment or you’re uneducated, then we’re transitioning out of the Industrial Revolution movement. And we’re going more into a tech phase, or the process where education, which was once hype, is now more valuable than just going into a coal mining or factory job. And then you may not even have been able to get that job itself. So you start doing illegal behavior; you have the prison; you have the industrial complex; all these different things occur where the black man is now being intentionally eradicated from the household. Absolutely. Right. So if you’re growing up and you’re seeing a man not present, then you have young women, and you have females, and young men for that matter, not seeing the value of a family system.
Dr. Connie Omari
So why can’t I? Oh, I cannot do it, right? And then a man, if you know him, could end up in prison. And with all that,
Christopher Matthews
It goes even deeper; I listen to a lot of audiobooks. Stephen A. Smith’s book is now out, and he goes into his family dynamic, showing how his mother and father were married and had a household, but the father had a separate household with a mistress and children. That does work with couples. The first assessment I typically do is a genogram. A genogram is a three-generational map. It’s so common in the black community to find that dad or mom had a whole other family. And it could have been within the boundaries of a divorce. And then, you know, stepparents, but it could also just be that dad in the mistress had kids and we didn’t know, or mom left dad and had another family. So when you see this intermingling of families being broken up, and then the trauma and the grief and all the issues that come with that, it almost creates a level of acceptance. You know, I recall colleagues and friends that I’ve had in college, and they might have one but three different kids; you have three households at that point; nobody’s married. So, you know, that’s another issue.
Dr. Connie Omari
Yeah. And I think I want you to talk about, you know, even being able to as a child. I mean, both my husband and I have fathers who had children outside of marriage. So, um, and you know, it’s like, okay, I mean, like, what do you want me to do? Like, you know, there is no real education or explaining or whether there is an explanation other than, you know, being reckless and messy and, you know, whatever. But my thing is, you know, I mean, not even that, not an apology, not a well, I will say my husband’s from Africa. Oh, they don’t get mad at me. They don’t listen to the show, but there was a big gleich ceremony. That’s actually why I do think this is important to talk about because, you know, the difference between my dad and his dad is that, you know, with his dad being African, there’s like, in my dad being a black American, we have the slave master’s mindset and mentality. So I would say the way I mean, I wouldn’t want it to happen to me; God knows that would devastate me. But my husband’s father had to own up to that mistake, like, I know, I don’t know, I understand everything. But I know a lot of gold was involved in a goat, and bringing the men to the forefront and apologizing publicly—I mean, almost humiliating and shaming and stuff like that—
I have sinned against you, you know,
You are the woman in your family. I mean, it was completely different than
Christopher Matthews
the COVID. That was broken. It was more respect. Yeah, it was really
Dr. Connie Omari
It doesn’t excuse it. But what happens if
Christopher Matthews
You don’t get married, and you just have another child with some other woman; neither of you are committed to each other. It’s just that we’re going to figure out a way to raise these kids together. And in those instances, you have some healthy models that all of the adults can successfully compare. But that takes time. The good
Dr. Connie Omari
times you don’t? Yeah, a lot of times you don’t; you have to go through a lot to get there. Yeah. So you see all this
Christopher Matthews
drama, right? And, you know, sometimes men say, Well, damn, if I don’t get married, then I’m going to have these issues if I don’t get married and have these issues. And then, like you said, he used the word earlier. Recklessness, right. When you look at the timeframe in which a lot of these illegitimate births are occurring, it’s usually between, you know, 20 and 25. For that, the frontal cortex developed the frontal lobe. Yeah. So you have poor decision-making skills. And it’s just that I’ve done counts for several couples where one man might have three kids, all within a year of each other. Oh, yeah. Same year. Well, you’ve got kids with the same birthdays?
Dr. Connie Omari
Yeah, three, set a, what is it? Three, six-year-olds? Yeah. Oh, the triplets. He’s like, Nah.
Christopher Matthews
And we don’t want to, you know, shame these individuals. Because, like you said earlier, it goes back to not being informed, the lack of vegetation, and then the lack of self-worth and value. One of the things I talked about in my book, Married Agenda: A Man’s Journey to my wife and I got pregnant young and unintentionally; however, we established a committed relationship. And through the committed relationship, that was how we learned how to parent. A lot of men may be on this tip where I have a child and the focus becomes just taking care of the child, but my focus was a little different; readers will see it in the book it was on: I have a child, let’s focus on this family. I didn’t just want to be a father; I wanted to be a husband and a father, and luckily enough, I identified a woman that I could build that with. So if you get someone pregnant and you don’t believe that you can build that with them, then at that point, you have to live with the consequence of just parenting with somebody you don’t even like and wouldn’t even be friends with. And that’s where you see a lot of that drama.
Dr. Connie Omari
I want you to please specify what you meant by mate selection. And I’ll tell you why. Because I work with women. But a lot of times I’ll see women interact. I’m not saying people can’t change, but they’ll date somebody with five kids. They’re not taking care of any of those children. And then they’ll be completely blown away when they get pregnant by the same man if you don’t take care of that child. And so, can you tell me, like, what selection means and how we can use that thought process to help us select better mates?
Christopher Matthews
Selection derives from prevention. Most people are reactive, not proactive. In order to successfully engage in selection, you have to have criteria, right? Democrat Tyria’s ability to identify what it is you would like and not like starts with you. So in these situations that you’re referring to, most people date or find partners within their proximity. You love this job. So I’m seeing you every day, and you show me tension. I prefer that attention to being alone. Hmm, now begin to have sex. So then there’s a fort. You know, connection, right? There’s a sign of Old Time because all the neurotransmitters, the endorphins, and the hormones are Russian, and we’re physiologically connected to each other. Now there’s a child, and all these other factors come into play where the partner believes or perceives that they’re going to be different. It’s like a spell being cast. So to make a proper selection, first you’ve got to have your own set of standards. Second, you have to be willing to abide by those standards. And third, you have to make sure that there are boundaries in place where you’re reinforcing those standards whenever you engage with a potential partner, and I tell people, You want to end the deal soon, right? I’d rather go into a deal or connection with a person and determine if it’s not going to be earlier than later, right? You have more small problems to be resolved before they become big problems. And that looks like first understanding how to love and be with yourself. Sometimes a person may look at being with someone they notice is not right for them. Because that beats being by themselves. So these people should learn how to love themselves, develop patience, and grow themselves into an environment where they will have greater proximity to people who also value themselves. Because if you’re on the come-up and you’re working on a fast food job because you haven’t acquired the education, training, or skills, and you find someone else to do that fast food job who hasn’t had any education, training, or skills, then you’re most likely going to be in proximity, and then you create that cycle. But if you can educate yourself, find your talent, and develop and grow, then the goal would be that you would establish a larger pawn to then select mates from that are in alignment with what you’re doing and how you’re progressing through life.
Dr. Connie Omari
Love it, love it. Love it. So what I took from that is to focus more on potential and not proximity.
Christopher Matthews
Absolutely, yeah. Yeah, I
Dr. Connie Omari
Think of, you know, our former presidents, Barack and Michelle. I mean, that’s the same exact thing. And Michelle was actually further along in her career than Barack when they started dating. But she chose him intentionally. Because she saw where his goal was, where his drive was, and where his potential for success was,
Christopher Matthews
Absolutely, that further was just based on the past, but when you think about where he was already from a level of education, yeah, was it a difference in terms of projection? Yeah, that was going to align with a high-yielding, high-paying job, right? And everything that they required. And that’s the thing—they weren’t certain proximities. Right, there had to be this
Dr. Connie Omari
was before that place. Yeah, this was before social
Christopher Matthews
Media and dating—yeah, they met—this was, I know, a girl, I know, a guy—they had met through other colleagues and associates, or just interactions or being around each other in the same place at the same time. And because we are in a global society, you can meet people easier, which gives you greater access, but at the same time, it makes the mate selection process skew. Because you could have a person who’s on a high-level trajectory, and they end up engaging in conversation, become intimate with the person who’s not on that same trajectory because they met on Instagram or Facebook.
Dr. Connie Omari
salutely. Absolutely. And what I want to say is what I really want to say to Kenan or what you said, because you mentioned fast food, and I know you weren’t implying like a class statement, but I think it’s important to specify because that can be because of the outcome. So let me, let me, let me say what I want to say.
Unknown Speaker
What,
Dr. Connie Omari
since we speak to a broad audience and a group of people from, you know, all different parts of the spectrum. We’re not saying that you in the fast food restaurant can’t date or whatever, but what we’re saying is get into it if you want better for your life. We’re not knocking the fast-food restaurant industry or things like that. But if you want to level up and do something a little bit different, maybe you can consider putting yourself in spaces and places with someone with different values and different goals, like a fast food restaurant manager who might be very, very kind, loving, and considerate. But then he could also, you know, have low goals and no valves. You have to get in tune with yourself to figure that out. But why not also be open to the prospect of putting yourself in spaces where you can be around the CEO, or at least someone like maybe at church or, you know, something different, like diversifying what I’m saying you’re sending? So just because you come from a situation where the odds are against you and you’re the underdog, as Chris is saying, doesn’t mean you have to stay that way. Open up your Orion horizons and say, I’m from the hood. You know, I suffer from addiction. I’m a victim of all types of abuse. And we’ll talk about those things on the show. And I ended up marrying a man from Africa—you know, a man from a relatively decent upbringing with different, you know, experiences. And you know, I won’t use the term wealthy per se, but for African standards, he’s lived pretty well, you know. So,
Christopher Matthews
To your point, I intentionally use fast food as an example because we think about a job that doesn’t pay enough to meet basic living standards. That’s correct. Correct. And that’s
Dr. Connie Omari
people coming together to do that. And that’s, and that’s not
Christopher Matthews
the fault of the fast food workers, right? It’s not the fault of the fast food workers who go to work for 40 hours or more and still don’t have enough money to purchase food. Right? Right. That’s not their fault.
Dr. Connie Omari
No, it’s not. But I use
Christopher Matthews
that example. Because money and economic issues tend to be one of the top reasons why marriages or relationships don’t work, So when you think about having a marriage or union with another person, once again, the marriage ended dogs brand looks at some of the potential pitfalls that would lead you toward divorce, one being not having enough income to provide for yourself or future children. That’s why I use the fast food analogy or example, because, like I said earlier, it’s not the fault of the worker. We live in a capitalistic society in the United States, where there is a class system. Yes. And if you want to acquire more for yourself, then that’s going to look like being around certain people who can motivate you and encourage you to do the same for themselves as well. My wife and I were broke. We were in poverty when we met. And I actually worked at a fast-food restaurant. So yeah, the thing was that we knew that wasn’t the issue. Yeah. Yeah. It wasn’t going to be our only stop in life. Professional love.
Dr. Connie Omari
How do you know that? Because I also often tell my children, I remember one time my husband and I had a $2 bill. And it was so rare. We wanted to keep it, but we had to spend it. Just to give you an idea of how the times were. So my children are like, really like, Oh, my God. Yes. So how do you? Like, what do you look for when you’re meeting somebody who works in a fast food restaurant or has a $2 deal that they have to spend? And know that, okay, this is it; there will be better days? Or have that confidence?
Christopher Matthews
So the three things I like to look at first are: who are you hanging around with? Like, who are they hanging around with? Because birds of a feather flock together? Second, you want to determine if this person has a level of character. What are your morals and values? Are you in alignment with a spiritual belief? That was something that stood out about my wife; she was a God-fearing woman. And it wasn’t just Christianity that attracted me; it was the belief that you should live by Christian-based principles in how you treat people and how you self-correct. And then third, having an instant connection that can evolve beyond just physical appearance or sex Those are the three things that I suggest couples look at when they select a mate. And that moral piece is huge. Because if you have her example earlier, there are five other women that you’ve impregnated and you’re not taking care of the children. That’s a moral issue at that point; that’s beyond just you getting out and having sex; it’s a lack of self-control and impulse. This is gratification-seeking. It’s devaluing who you are. It’s all of those things in that example.
Dr. Connie Omari
I can’t help but want to thank you for mentioning that. I do want to think about one thing. I don’t know if you’re familiar with this article; my professor told me about it. And I’ve even reached back out to him to get this information. But he was telling me, Yes, yes, yes to everything that you said. But there was a study that was done. That said, some black men actually see multiple children as a sign of their masculinity because they’re there. They’re associated with being sexual first of all, and that gives them a sense of dominance and control and all of that, but because they don’t think they’ll go to college or they have a better chance of going to prison or they don’t see themselves as CO, at least they can see themselves as a father, even if they’re not a good father, you know, our sperm donor, at the very least they can have that manhood. And I’m just wondering if one, if you’re familiar with any of that type of research, or two, if you could see the possibility of a man, again, with a lack of education just missing, wanting to be a man, and unthinking having children is a sign of manhood.
Christopher Matthews
When I think about that from a qualitative perspective, the narratives that I was surrounded by when I was in college living in an urban environment around young men who were impregnating multiple women, but yet they were uneducated and came from poverty situations, did allude to the fact that having multiple children was for them a badge of honor. And it gave them value because that defined who they were; it was the initial phase of knowing that I have a legacy. I have someone that looks like me. Yeah, I have it; I was equivalent to it, and do forgive me. But this is what it felt like—it was almost equivalent to a pet. It wasn’t as if the young man or the young men could identify the value or the responsibility that came with the child; there was more glamour in the moment, like, I have a baby, and you would see them with the mother while they were pregnant. But as soon as the baby came, he got hard, or they got interested in another woman, and it was kind of everybody else’s fault. So that was a lack of accountability. Even in my book, I didn’t hold back. And I spoke about how my wife and I got pregnant; there was contemplation around an abortion. And it wasn’t because I or she weren’t able or equipped to raise a child, despite our circumstances of being in college. It was just being afraid; I was scared, and I didn’t want to live up to that responsibility. And luckily, you know, in the book, as you read, you see, the more I evolved and grew as a man, the more I understood the shame that was behind me for even considering, for one moment, to abolish or relate to abolishing a child, right? Just out of being selfish, just out of the inconvenience of having a shower. There wasn’t anything beyond that. And, you know, that’s what made the book so hard to write, because I had to reflect back on that stage of life, and I talked about the difference between a boy and a man. You can have a lot of grown boys walking around, but age doesn’t make you a man. What makes you a man is the ability to look yourself in the mirror and develop a set of principles and values you choose to live by. And not only for you, but for your family and your community. Right. And that was a transformational process. Becoming a man isn’t something you just do overnight; it takes your experiences and the lessons that you learn, and then being able to apply those lessons to be better than you were the day prior. That’s what makes you a man. Correct?
Dr. Connie Omari
Absolutely. Absolutely. I agree. 110%. You, but again, our community doesn’t know that. So how do you know? Do you have any? But what I guess shows is more education and making it more available. And the same for the women. I mean, I know that for me, especially when I was in high school, the idea of a man was someone who was tough. I mean, you know, I want you to be tough, but I also want you to beat math. You know, excuse my language, but I don’t want to have to worry about you physically harming me, or you know, sometimes I don’t want a womanizer. But I might have dated somebody who
knew. Like women, you know, I want you to do it to me, but
Christopher Matthews
I actually offer a program called positive masculinity in the public speaking workshop program for churches, youth groups, sports teams, or anywhere where you have a high concentration of men. In the positive masculinity program, that offer goes into healthy masculinity. All these characteristics of being able to be a provider and having a level of toughness, which I like to look at as assertiveness, are beautiful; they’re amazing. They should be awarded for applauding. Your weaknesses are really just your strengths multiplied by 1000. So when we take assertiveness and it transitions into aggression, it becomes a weakness, which is what a lot of people are familiar with. Toxic, right. All right. So I think we need to counteract toxic masculinity with healthy masculinity. And that looks like educating men and boys, when they’re younger, what that looks like, because it has to be a proper mixture of emotional regulation. But we don’t want to get rid of all the things that make me masculine. Because those are things to be applauded and awarded. If someone comes into my home and I defend it, or someone is attempting to harm my child or my family, and I rise up, right? If you think about Martin Luther King in the civil rights movement, those are some masculine men, right? Yeah, that was a movement that was non-violent, but it was a masculine movement, right? Masculine energies aren’t just gender-based; you have a lot of women who partake in a masculine role. And that can be needed in certain situations. If my wife is out alone with our children and someone attempts to harm her, that masculine energy is going to come out. So getting out of this perspective of masculine and feminine being gender-based is not You have a lot of men and women who illustrate both of those energies. And they’re both important on the scale and the spectrum of balance.
Dr. Connie Omari
That’s so important. That is so important. I was just briefly thinking, as you’re given that explanation, that if you know my husband, he goes to the corner store three times a day. And he never wants to tell me when he’s going, so I just happened to call his name or have one of the kids go ask them a question. We realized he’s now here, and even though he’s only been gone for 1520 minutes, you know what I’m trying to get him to understand: the way I parent when you’re here versus the way I parent when you’re not here is completely different. Absolutely. If you’re not here, I need to know if I hear a noise. You know that that noise is not supposed to be there. And I won’t know that if I’m thinking you’re here and it’s not you, it could be somebody else. So anyway, yeah, I totally agree with
Christopher Matthews
anybody who’s listening a lot, a lot of the listeners may be interested in how they can contact me, Chris a Matthews, as my direct website is the way my name is Bill CHR is a Matthews with two T’s at the th ws.com. And actually,
Dr. Connie Omari
You’ll find that link in our show notes. They can just click on it. But go ahead.
Christopher Matthews
Yeah, increase Matthews.com. That’s where listeners can find my book. It’s also available on Amazon, and married to dogs, a manager, and in matrimony, the goal is to be a representation of healthy, positive black masculinity, healthy, positive leadership, parenting, what a husband should look like, how men can be good representatives for their entire community, across all spectrums of wellness, not just from the physical tactic of needing to be a provider, and we hear that we’re providing so much, but we fail to ask, what does a man need to provide? A lot of times it’s just money, but think about providing beyond just financial compensation. Is a man providing security? Is a man providing vulnerability, emotional availability? Are they providing that space for everyone in the house to be safe? Are they providing leadership? Are they providing the vision needed for families to go forth, and is everybody in that system given the skills to be the best they can be? Right? A man can provide
Unknown Speaker
all of it. I love it. I love it. I
Dr. Connie Omari
Yes, a man is capable of doing that. Because a lot of times men think that they cannot. cannot do that. They feel like, because they haven’t seen it, maybe their father wasn’t there or their uncles were womanizers and didn’t stay around their children. So they just think that’s what being a black man is about. But I love that you’re saying, No, you can. And the first thing is mindset. Absolutely. The first thing is mindset. I mean, you know, and I’m going to plug this real quickly. Most people know by now that I’ve been through the criminal justice system. And as a black woman, you know, this was my first time really, really, really seeing how it’s hard for us to have ours is a little bit different because, especially when it’s a financial crime, it’s a little different, but you know what I mean? Just how the system looks at you, how the lids system looks through you, and how hard it is to be seen as something that you’re not, without having the correct system to help see you differently And so the biggest thing I tell myself now is that I can’t do it. I know a lot of people come out of prison with messed-up situations, but you know what? I can do it. You know, I’m just doing it. Thank you. Thank you; I appreciate that. And so kind of black man, and what you’re doing and where you come from. I mean, you have this specific thing, but I can tell it wasn’t easy. You know, I grew up, and I look at you now. So, guys, this is an example. You can change your mindset and your outlook on life and your future. Yeah. Any final words? Chris, do you want to share with our audience about marriage? You know, we’ve got your contact information, yall. I highly recommend this book. Just based on some of the points that he has brought up today, it’s very clear that it’s, you know, well researched. And, really speaking, first of all, there aren’t even a lot of resources like this out there. So if nothing more than just the scarcity of it, I mean, he knows what he’s talking about. And he’s, you know, 14 years old. So what better person to get feedback from than Chris? But is there anything you’d like to share with the audience, Chris?
Christopher Matthews
So I’m gearing up for the fall. I’m actually partnering with Dr. Willie Jolly and Coding Magazine, Co. D. M, Code M magazine, is hosting an inter-national marriage retreat tour, and myself, Dr. Willie Jolly, will be going to different cities, launching our retreats in which I’m going to be speaking on marriage-related topics and also tailoring them to men and women who aren’t just married but those who are designed to date for marriage as well. Be on the lookout by way of our websites, and on Instagram, Chris Matthews, underscore is my IG, as well. So make sure to follow and keep up-to-date with all the amazing things we’re doing around the country to serve black families.
Dr. Connie Omari
And all of those links will be in the show notes. So just make sure you know where you’re seeing this video. And we’ll have those links available. Chris, it has been a pleasure. You are a great asset to the black community, especially our black men. And I just want to thank you for your vulnerability, your transparency, and your willingness to answer this call. All right. Thank you. All right. Thank you for joining us today, everyone. It’s been a pleasure. Thank you for allowing us to join you on your journey. Peace and blessings. Dr. O.