Dr. O:
Hey, Hey, Hey,Welcome to the Black Marriage and Family Therapy matters podcast where we connect black families to black therapists. Alright guys, I want to introduce you today to our awesome guests named Patricia Brower. Hi Patricia.
Author Patricia Brower:
Hi,
How you doing?
Dr. O:
Author Patricia Brower:
I am well,
Very good. Is it okay if I introduce you to our audience today?
Author Patricia Brower:
Most definitely awesome.
Dr. O:
The desire to inspire is a passion that describes local author Patricia Bower. Inspiring others is something she enjoys and feels destined to do. The North Carolina native has been writing poetry plays, books and short stories for over 20 years. She has a 1992 graduate of Winston Salem State University right here in Winston Salem, North Carolina. There she received a Bachelors of Science degree in accounting and was employed within North Carolina State for 16 years. Upon leaving the North Carolina Department of Revenue in 2009. She continued her writing career and is an avid volunteer throughout her community. She has written five books, of which three have been published. Her first book, Edifying Expressions was published in 2003, and is a collection of inspirational poetry, written during a time that she was facing painful life experiences and she escaped to her place of peace through writing. As she maneuvered through life, she faced an overwhelming diagnosis of MS In 2004. During the diagnosis, she once again turned to her writings and found solace in her faith in God and used writing as therapy.
Wow, I love that. Yes. In 2006, she published Daily Mercy’s Revealed Part One, which is a daily devotional that candidly shares her thoughts and experiences with God over different situations, and she reflects upon the pain and life lessons learned on this journey. These thought provoking entries are completed in our third book published in 2008, and entitled Daily Marcy’s Revealed Part Ttwo, as she sums up her life through daily devotions of encouragement and hope.
Currently, she is working on developing her own line of greeting cards and publishing her fourth book on forgiveness and releasing the pain and anger from your life. Finally being free and embracing forgiveness at all costs. She was challenged with writing this book because she had to release unforgiveness from her life as well. This book is destined to change lives and set people free once they totally surrender to God. She has been married to Gregory for 24 years and they reside in Raleigh, North Carolina. They have the humbling task of helping nurture two of her nephews That is so impressive. Thank you. Before we continue, I just want to make sure I honor your name correctly. Is it Patricia Brower?
Author Patricia Brower:
Yes.
Dr. O:
Okay, Patricia,
Author Patricia Brower:
I can’t remember if I’m saying Brower. All right. welcome. All right. So Patricia.
Yes.
Dr. O:
You write about forgiveness.
Author Patricia Brower:
Yes.
Dr. O:
That is important.
Author Patricia Brower:
Yes, it is very important.
Dr. O:
Can you tell our audience a little bit about why?
Author Patricia Brower:
Because you can’t live a life that is tarnished with unforgiveness because it hinders every aspect of your life. You may think you can live and just go on in life, holding on to the bondage of unforgiveness. But you can’t you have to release it for yourself.
Dr. O:
Hmm. Why can’t we?
Author Patricia Brower:
Because it is dangerous. And it can affect every aspect of your life. I mean, you can’t just go around holding on to unforgiveness because you can’t do anything else. I mean, because it controls every aspect of your life. It really does does.
Dr. O:
It does. a lot of times, I think I’m pushing it because I think a lot of times we think of forgiveness and unforgiveness like like it’s related to our relationships. But you canstore unforgiveness, like in different areas of your body or in different relationships that you have with other people?
Author Patricia Brower:
Yeah, I think there’s actually studies that prove that harboring unforgiveness results in health challenges. Yeah, I mean, I don’t know the name of the studies, but I do know that they have been studies done
Dr. O:
Right. Well, there’s certainly some connection to disress level. Just different things that you experienced internally, mentally and the influence on your on your health. Yeah, so that that makes a lot of sense.
So what do you wish our community knew about forgiveness?
Author Patricia Brower:
Wow, that forgiveness is definitely a process. It’s not like you’re gonna wake up one day and say, Oh, I forgive you. And that’s the end of it. You have to do the work and just work through your feelings. Seek professional help, and just seek help from others.
Dr. O:
And through reading your book, but I still want to know you know, Patricia is not a therapist, but she said that she’s used writing as therapy. And that’s one of the reasons why I was really drawn to her because one of the exercises that I provide my clients on a regular basis is writing.
Author Patricia Brower:
Wow.
Dr. O:
Yes, we do a lot of journaling. We do a lot of creative art therapy. So can you tell us a little bit more about how writing has been therapeutic for you?
Author Patricia Brower:
Yes, just a place of peace for me, because I can go to a place where I can block everybody else out. And I’m just there with my feelings. And I can just write whether my feelings are right, wrong or indifferent. I mean, nobody’s judging me, because I’m just there with my writing.
Dr. O:
It’s interesting that you say that, because I’ve always liked writing, especially if I have to say something difficult, sometimes even to my husband. Because if I say it, it’s out there. I can’t take it back.
Author Patricia Brower:
I can relate.
Dr. O:
If I sent him like an email, you know, they got delete, copy, paste, you know, all these different features that make me more effective in my communication?
Dr. O:
Yes, yes. Yes.
So yes, it is a process. Is there anything in particular that you think makes the process more challenging?
Author Patricia Brower:
Denial? I would say it’s one, you have to admit that you are harboring unforgiveness. Before you get help. I mean, if you are not admitting that you’re hating someone, or you have animosity against someone, then it’s hard for you to get the help that you need. So the first thing is just embracing the truth that you need help.
Dr. O:
Hmm, that is so true. Because if I think especially in the black community, sometimes if you admit negative feelings, it might be associated with weakness. Something wrong with you.
Yes. Hmm. I mean, think about it like that, before we had this conversation. And then too, I think that we like to sweep stuff under the rug. Yes. Especially in families. It’s like, we don’t deal with stuff. And we just sweep it under the rug and say, Well, if I don’t deal with it, then I don’t have to deal with it. But eventually, it will come back in one form or another.
Dr. O:
I hope you don’t mind me speaking about this? You mentioned like when you graduated the stuff from from college, but we tease each other about the generational gap. which is interesting, because we still came together.
Author Patricia Brower:
Yes.
Dr. O:
But I’m mentioning that now. Because one of the things that I find is maybe people my generation, okay, millennials, like millennials, whatever, or even older, Millennials might have an issue with the parent.
Dr. O:
Right.
Author Patricia Brower:
And, and something some unresolved issue. And that’s why I think it’s also important generationally, because a lot of times a parent will respond in a condescending way, you know, in a way that they say something like, well, I did the best I could, or that’s what happened to me. You know, I didn’t, that’s all I know. And they don’t realize that that’s not validating their child, their offspring. So in terms of just getting to terms with like forgiveness, that it makes it harder to forgive, would you say when you’re saying, ouch, this hurt?
Dr. O:
Yes. Like you don’t matter.
Author Patricia Brower:
Yeah.
Dr. O:
Do you have any advice? For people that are going to be listening to? How can an elder person put their pride aside? Right, because I haven’t I mean, I as a mother, and you also a parent, too. And when you take care of we make mistakes?
Dr. O:
Yes, we do. Yes, we do.
Author Patricia Brower:
And we hurt our children that we know we love you.
Dr. O:
But we have to provide a safe space for forgiveness to occur so that we can have authentic relationships.
Author Patricia Brower:
Yeah, I would just say keep the lines of communication open the best you can. I mean, there is no manual that says, okay, you do this, this, this and that for you forgive, you just have to be open to receiving the person’s forgiveness, and extending forgiveness because we like you said, we all have our crosses to bear. And we all have, you know, to accept forgiveness and extend forgiveness. We can’t just say, it’s just you. It’s not me. And we just have to just try our best and put forth the best effort that we can because like I said, it’s a process and in that process, you have to work hard at sending and receiving forgiveness. And it’s like I said, it’s not an overnight thing. You can’t just wake up one day and say, Okay, I forgive you. It’s gone. And you got to talk i out and you got to discuss it and you have to just be open to receive.
Dr. O:
I love that.
Author Patricia Brower:
Mm hmm.
Dr. O:
I’m trying to think of what you said to not only do we need to we need to forgive but we also have to extend forgiveness.
Author Patricia Brower:
Exactly.
Dr. O:
And I guess we can add to that also receive forgivness, you know, because sometimes…
Author Patricia Brower:
Oh, my goodness, that’s the biggest challenge. How are you forgiving yourself?
Yes, I really need because like we said earlier, we’re not perfect. And we’re going to make mistakes. In every walk of life. Yes. But we just have to know that God is with us, and that we can give ourselves room to make mistakes.
Dr. O:
Why is forgiving yourself hard? I think that’s even harder, most forgiving.
Author Patricia Brower:
Because I think sometimes if we can’t forgive ourself, we don’t even know how to forgive other people. That’s a key point.
Dr. O:
That is a key point.
Author Patricia Brower:
It’s like, because we are so hard on ourselves. And we have to feel like we have to dot every I and cross every t all the time. But we’re not going to… We’re going to make mistakes. We’re going to do things that’s not right. We’re going to have to ask for forgiveness time and time and time again. But you just have to know that we are in a place of a blessing if we can forgive.
Dr. O:
And I think another thing that makes it hard and I’m interested to hear from you is people confuse forgiveness with forgetfulness.
Author Patricia Brower:
Oh, no.
Dr. O:
Right?
Author Patricia Brower:
There are two separate things. And you’re exactly right. Because just because you forgive someone doesn’t mean you forget, because some of the acts that were against you, you won’t forget, you know what I’m saying? You just have to know that. Okay, I can remember, but forgive you at the same time. And don’t harbor unforgiveness in your heart, but just know that I’m forgiving you.
Dr. O:
And also forgiveness doesn’t mean you have to be in my life. You know what I’m saying?
Author Patricia Brower:
Yeah, you can forgive someone? Exactly right here from a distance.
Dr. O:
Yes. I like that.
Author Patricia Brower:
I like that, too. And I also know, I wonder if it’s okay to mention, are we talking about the novel that?
Dr. O:
Okay, that’s okay. And the reason I want to mention that, because you told me Can we talk about?
Yes.
Dr. O:
Okay. You told me that it was about a sexual assault experience. And I’m assuming Was there any type of forgiveness in this book?
Author Patricia Brower:
Um, oh, yes. It’s like, when I just finally released the forgiveness, it was hard, because I was holding on to it. Because the pain was so real. The pain is real. And it was like, okay, God, are you serious? I have to forgive this person after what they did to me. And, yes, you do. Because forgiveness didn’t only hurt me as a child, it hurt, but it just hurt period, you know what I’m saying? It’s gonna hinder you from reaching your full potential, if you hold on to it. And that was so brave. Because it was so now that I realized the person in that novel was you, I just thought,
Dr. O:
Oh, really?
Author Patricia Brower:
Oh, but I’ve been very vocal about this. on my show, as well. So I’m also a survivor of a sexual assault. And I tell you some of the things that people will say, you know, that will kind of make the, I mean, sometimes we can say things are actually even worse than than the assault. I’ve had people say, Get over it. I’ve had people say, it wasn’t that bad. wasn’t that bad? Look, how many people are worse. Even look where you are now. Position me.
Dr. O:
I wish I didn’t have to learn that.I would have chosen another
I would have missed. Yes. But so how can you speak to someone who is struggling? in that area of just, you know, their feelings are valid?
Author Patricia Brower:
They have been Yes. And you know, and things are wrong in a lot of times, and this is black, white, purplse, blue. A lot of the time we don’t even believe the people. A lot of times the person is a respectable person in the community. So we’re like, No, uncle Johnny could never do that. You know, sometimes it’s a parent. Yes. a loved one. Yes. I will say this real quickly. Because I say it every time I get a chance. But most sexual assault that happens to children happens by a loved one.
Yes.
Dr. O:
Someone that you trust. It is not a stranger. So how does a person who is in a situation like that forgive especially when they don’t feel like it when they don’t feel like, right?
Author Patricia Brower:
But for two when the people in their environment is you know, it is a little bit easier to forgive someone if they say I’m sorry, yes, you know, but I can be honest. Yeah. But it’s like everyone is different. There are no two people that are the same. And what worked for me may not work for you, your approach may be different and I address that in my book about forgiveness. You just have to be patient, for one, be patient with yourself. And just patient to know that you can work through your feelings on your own time. Like I said, it’s no manual that says, okay, you do this, this, this and this and you will be released forgiveness. But no, you just have to just test different stuff, do different things to figure out what helps you move from one place to the next.
You know what I’m saying?
Dr. O:
Yes. How can a person and this might be a little specific, but how does a person recognize when they are struggling with unforgiveness?
Author Patricia Brower:
Unforiveness shows up in everything in your life? You may not know it, but I think, you know, like, for me, it was like, I had a kind of self righteous attitude, you know, was like a what you did to me what you did to me, but it wasn’t, I wasn’t considering what I was doing to myself by not releasing forgiveness. Just take it one day at a time. And that might sound like sound like a cliche. But for real, it’s you have to take one day at a time, you have to.
Dr. O:
Is there anything that you wish, black families knew about forgiveness?
Author Patricia Brower:
A lot of times they think that, like I said, the process, they don’t embrace the process, they just have to know that it is a process, it’s not going to be an overnight thing, you have to do the work. And just know that you can release forgiveness in your life, you can, regardless of what society says, regardless of what your friends say, regardless of what different people tell, you can forgive. And you can let the past go.
Dr. O:
Where do we as a community struggle the most? And what can we learn?
Author Patricia Brower:
I will say communication, whether it is with your spouse, whether you really loved ones, we just don’t communicate, we do not communicate. We don’t communicate, you know, we don’t? And what was the second part of your question?
Dr. O:
What can we learn from it to communicate, I think,
Author Patricia Brower:
I think we just have to just trust more. And just know that, you know, your feelings may not be received well all the time, but they’re your feelings. And you can express them, and you can feel the way you want to feel and just communicate. Because how do I know how you feel unless you communicated? That to me? Yes. I don’t know if this if this episode has been released at the time that this will be released. But I did a I did an episode on cutting people off.
Dr. O:
Oh, wow.
Author Patricia Brower:
Yes. And I think we have a very toxic perspective about that. Because this 2020 I mean, if you ain’t doing for me, you know, I gotta do it.
Dr. O:
Author Patricia Brower:
Yeah.
Right.
Author Patricia Brower:
And that’s supported by our cultural norms, as reported by our society, sports generationally, we see it on TV, media all the time. But yet, as a therapist, I get all these clients talking about I’m lonely, you know, friends, I’m not married, I want to be in a relationship. I don’t know how to connect with people. And I’m like, Well, you know, you might want to try a little bit more forgiveness, and a little bit less cutting people off every time something. Does it. Rub you the right way?
Dr. O:
Yeah, yeah.
Author Patricia Brower:
Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. O:
So how do we know when we need to forgive?
Author Patricia Brower:
We always need to forgive ourself. So where do we know when we need to forgive and maintained closest with a person and forgive from a distance. I’ll just say just take it. Like I said, I don’t mean to sound like a broken record. But it’s the truth, you just have to take every situation is different, every situation is going to be different. So you just have to take it situation by situation, and just do all that you can do to rectify any discord among you, and someone else will never talk to you. But I’ve talked about your books a little bit at the end of the show. Okay. But I’d like to know if you had any resources on the top of your mind that you think could help black families. Definitely forgive Santa therapist. Definitely. Seriously, I mean, that’s something that the black community don’t embrace this. Well. We don’t feel like outside help, or professional help can benefit us and which is wrong. Wrong. We have to just embrace all that is out there to help us because the goal is getting better. Yes, it is. It is. I love that seeing a therapist. So we’re still developing our directory, but we will be having black therapist list their profile soon.
Dr. O:
Yes. Great. Yes. Right. Yes.
Author Patricia Brower:
Is there anything that you’ve read or listened to recently, again, aside from your resources, that could also help black families forgive? Well, I would say I look at a lot of Christian TV and inspirational stuff and that Works for me. But that may not work for everybody, because everybody may not be in that vein. But you just like I say, just have to find your way and your way may not look like my way and my way may not look like your way, but just find your way.
Author Patricia Brower:
Whatever we’re
Exactly, exactly.
Dr. O:
Is there a myth about forgiveness that you can address real quickly? Amir? Oh, boy, I would say that you can live productively without forgiveness, ah, that people think that I don’t have to forgive you. You know, I don’t watch true.
Author Patricia Brower:
That’s exactly what I’m saying. Because when you’re cutting people off,
Dr. O:
And then they are miserable. And like I said, trying to find me talking to me. Yeah, so yeah, we you definitely need to to get familiar with forgiving if you want to live your best life. Yes. Of all the things in particular, is there just one thing that really stands out? That you want blind people to understand? Yeah, trust yourself? Hmm. I think that’s something that we don’t do. We can we believe in other people, and we seek other people. But we need to trust ourselves, and trust our feelings and just move to know that we can live a better life. I love it. I love it. Sometimes that’s hard to do. It is already in trauma people. Yeah. who have been told that their feelings don’t matter. They’re not important.
Dr. O:
All right, Patricia, this is a time in the show that we’re gonna go to a segment called What’s Good. So What’s Good, basically includes a hypothetical situation, okay, where I just just throw something out that one of our clients could be going through and then I would ask you advice for how you would approach it. Oh, boy, you got this. You got
Author Patricia Brower:
Okay. Okay.
Dr. O:
Author Patricia Brower:
All right. me meet Donna. Donna is in a marriage for over 14 years, she knew she wanted to have kids, but after trying for seven years, just decided that children were not in the plan for her. However, until recently, Donna has been happily married. However, she just learned that her husband has been unfaithful, and had a child with another woman. After careful consideration, she shows that marriage cannot progress. And she wants to be cordial with her husband, because they’ve been married for so long. She knows that in order to do this, she needs to forgive him. But she just doesn’t know. How do you have any advice?
Author Patricia Brower:
Oh, boy.
Yes, like I said earlier, she has to be true to herself, her feelings matter. And her husband hurt her deeply. So she has to realize that her feelings count and that she can forgive him. But it’s got to be on her own terms. Yeah. And like I said, there isn’t a manual that says okay, do this, this, this and this to forgive she just have to work through her feelings and be true to herself. Very good. Very good. And a great way resource to do that is as you stated, getting a therapist, but doing some writing as
Dr. O:
Yes, yes, yes. Well, Patricia, before I let you go, can you tell our guests a little bit about where they can find you and get some of your resources?
Author Patricia Brower:
Yes, my website is www.edifyingyou.com and that is edifying. . And they can just follow me there. And they will be able to find out the different projects and their release dates and stuff like that. Very good. Awesome. And you have three of your books so far there. Yes. They can order. They’re not physically in a bookstore. But you can order online Amazon, you know, Got it. Got it.
Dr. O:
Well, it has been a pleasure.
Author Patricia Brower:
It’s been a pleasure being here. It really has.
Dr. O:
Awesome.
Author Patricia Brower:
Well, thank you again.
Thank you. Thank you for the opportunity. salutely and thank you for an inspiring our audience. So forgive me. Yes. Thank you so much.
Dr. O:
Take care.
Author Patricia Brower:
Okay, you too.
Dr. O:
Bye.