Dr. O:
Hey, Hey Hey and welcome to the black Marriage and Family Therapist Matters Podcast, where we connect black families to black therapists. Today our special guest is named Andre Harris. Hi, Andre.
Andre Harris:
Hi, good,
Andre Harris:
How are you?
Dr. O:
I’m good. I’d like to introduce you to our audience. Now. Andre Marcel Harris is a Ronald E. McNair scholar and a recent graduate holding a Bachelor’s of social work from Fayetteville State University, right here in Fayetteville, North Carolina. As a Ronald e McNair scholar, Andre aspires to pursue a doctorate in social work and/or sociology. Andres professional goals include him working to influence health equity for sickle cell patients, providing quality resources to address disparities in black men’s health, and providing psychosocial support and resources for male sexual assault survivors. Andre, is the founder of the Facebook Group, Black Men in Social Work, which seeks to provide a safe space for commodity black men to share their experiences as black male social workers, Andres research interests focus on social determinants of health, black men’s health, and black male sexual assault survivors. That’s awesome. Andre.
Andre Harris:
God bless you, you are very
Dr. O:
You’re welcome and bless you for this work that you’re doing. And for your commitment to this cause. Can you tell us a little bit more about the black men and social work Facebook group?
Andre Harris:
Yes. So in the fall of 2017, I noticed that there were was not a space that I could find where I could fellowship or share with other black men who were in the social work profession, either students or grad students or researchers, clinicians, I couldn’t find a space for anybody like us. And it kind of I saw another group called Black Women in Social Work.
Dr. O:
Okay.
Andre Harris:
And when I saw that I was like, Huh, not to kind of bite off them. But I really think that this would be a good idea to bleed over. Because most people know that the profession of Social Work is highly dominated by women, especially white women. And so those that are black males, do find it a little challenging. In some instances. As a student, I saw that the black men, even though I went to HBCU, that they were kind of complaining that they felt like they weren’t represented. And then also in other arenas that I was in, when I would go to Social Work conferences. A lot of times I will be either the only male and or/the only black male. So that kind of motivated me to just create a Facebook group. And honestly, when I created it, I think I created it with of course me, and then I think I remember it like three or four people that I had, that were Facebook friends that I invited to the group. And for a couple of months, it laid dormant, we really there was really no activity. But I will credit and would like to credit a colleague of mine that I reconnected with who ended up getting his MSW and he joined the group. And he invited people and really challenged him to invite more members. It began to be a robust group. And so we went from like four or five members in the fall of 2017. To almost 950 members.
Dr. O:
Gracious, wow,
Andre Harris:
February 2020. Wow.
Dr. O:
So I say that the sad thing is awesome.
Dr. O:
Oh, that’s amazing. That’s amazing,
Andre Harris:
I think is also awesome, because we’ve had testimonials already, that members of our group have been able to use the group to get fellowships, internships, scholarships, jobs. There are three guys that I know now, specifically, who have either accepted a new position as a professor or as a condition at an agency. And they credit the group for allowing them to make those calls to get those employment opportunities. So that is really what I want to see and hear to be the fruit of the group so I’m very excited.
I love that. I love that and we spoke briefly about it. You’re not a clinician yet, but you do great advocacy work. We’re going to talk about that. But I love the fact that you create resources for these clinicians. And I want our audience to hear it and know that it’s available, like there are at least 930, something black male social workers there.
Dr. O:
Absolutely.
Andre Harris:
And as you can see, you don’t necessarily need to have a license in this work to be offering great resources and skills for the black community. So on behalf of the black men and black women who will benefit from this, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. All right. So you also work with the sickle cell population. And I like to kind of speak ask invites you to talk a little bit about that. Because, as we know, sickle cell is a very big health concern in the black community.
Dr. O:
Absolutely. Yes. Yes.
Andre Harris:
So I don’t think I actually shared this with you. But first and foremost, I live with sickle cell. So of course, that really wouldn’t motivates me. But also, I’m very motivated, because not only do I live with it, but I inspired by my fellow, I guess you could say colleagues also deal with it and battle with it. And I just really want to see a difference. And I know that sounds like a cliche, but there’s so much discrimination that goes on in the healthcare arena when it comes around sickle cell disease. And the majority of it is racially charged and racially motivated. Oh, wow. So the last maybe, I would say, five to six years, I have been really working as a sickle cell advocate. My purpose as an advocate is I act as a liaison as an educator, as an advocate, of course, to different organizations, I work with a lot of nonprofit organizations, I work with a lot of healthcare, federal healthcare agencies.
Dr. O:
Wow.
Andre Harris:
I consult with a lot of pharmaceutical companies, whether it is to provide education, or resources, or even talk about the lived experience of a patient with sickle cell disease. And so that drive is what kind of inspired me also to pursue being a Ronald McNair Scholar, which is a program that allows people with who are minorities and people from lower socio economic statuses to get the resources and knowledge to be a viable doctoral candidate.
Andre Harris:
And so…
Dr. O:
Oh, wow,
Andre Harris:
I’m speaking this over my life,
Dr. O: Yes. claim it, yay,
Andre Harris:
yay, Ah, yes, when I get into a Ph. D program, my research which I’ve done already, but, you know, to do on a wider scale is to really find ways to reduce the discrimination that sickle cell patients encounter in the healthcare industry, try to increase health equity. And not only that, but to make sure that the public knowledge and awareness of the disease is heightened and increase, because it is my philosophy that discrimination and bias can be eliminated, or at least greatly reduced if you provide the proper and appropriate education. So people, you know, you perpetuate ignorance when you’re not educated?
Dr. O:
Absolutely.
Andre Harris:
So, unfortunately, the general public are just simply uneducated. And, and I said this, and I think you, you said, You watched the last podcast, I said this there is that we can’t really always be mad, that people don’t know. Because we haven’t really given them the edge.
Dr. O:
Absolutely.
Andre Harris:
And what you’ve heard and what she been a hearer of whatever it is, then you’re responsible for that word, or that that piece of knowledge that you receive. And so, to me, it is my duty, my charge, my responsibility to educate as many people that I can. And after I give them the knowledge, they no longer can have any excuse that they know that they they weren’t aware, I educated you it was your responsibility once I gave you that piece of knowledge. And so that’s what’s really motivated me to go into doctoral studies, I really want to do a lot of social science research to really illuminate the social impact of sickle cell season. This is kind of also answering your question and getting to the point is that there’s a lot of research trying to find a cure, which is very neat, right? But not many people understand the social impact of
Dr. O:
Wow,
Andre Harris:
not many people understand that socio economic burden of the disease and that’s the whole dissertation in it.
Dr. O:
I bet. I bet.
Andre Harris:
That’s basically what motivates me to Do it.
Dr. O:
Wow, thank you so much, Andre for that, and it is yeah. And it’s true. Like a lot, a lot of us when I started this work, when I was a bachelor’s, even undergraduate, I really thought exclusively about the clinical side. I didn’t really think about how important it is to have that research backing to support what we do as a clinician and now 12-15 how long I mean, it’s like 15 years into this industry, I realized that if you’re not based in research, you might as well not be doing any type of clinical work.
Andre Harris:
Yes, yeah. And I have, like I said, I’m a recent graduate, but I have a mentor in social work, and from my school of social work, who’s actually running for political office.
Dr. O:
Wow, that’s interesting.
Andre Harris:
And she taught my macro course. And she was one of the ones that was a big influence over me to really be comfortable in my choice of being a macro social worker being an advocate, because I feel like in the social work, education, that is almost pressured, or it’s almost demanded or expected of us that we do be clinicians, or that we do be micro in some sort of way.
Dr. O:
Can you clarify the differences between micro and macro? Because, honestly, I don’t know.
I can. So this is how I learned there are three different I guess, you could say practice levels of social work, micro, macro, and mezzo and some micro is what we call direct print. Okay. So those are your clinicians, you know, those are the ones that have office hours that are in private practice, you know, that dude therapy, that provide any type of direct services may be you may be a social worker in some hospital or the VA. Those are direct clinician, okay, direct practice clinicians. And then macro are normally people who are heavily involved in research, policy advocacy, working with communities organizations, a more systemic view of practice, we’re not working with individuals and families, but we’re working with the systems that impact the individuals. And that was gonna bring me to my next point is that when I was in my undergraduate program, we were drilled heavily in every class, that policy influenced practice.
Andre Harris:
Yeah, which basically kind of tells us that micro or direct practitioners are important. However, everyone can’t live in that space. Because if we don’t have anyone that’s influencing the policies, no one will be able to influence the practice.
Dr. O:
Absolutely, absolutely.
Andre Harris:
There’s practice that disenfranchising your population, or your client base, then the person that works in the macro setting is the one who would really be that go to to help fix it. And then nezuko is kind of a fusion between the two, someone who kind of is the bridge that works equally between the macro and micro, okay.
Dr. O:
Okay.
Andre Harris:
So that’s how I learned it. It is. So when I say macro, I talk about me being an advocate, me being someone who is very much interested in research. Now, we were actually taught that micro practitioners should be involved with researchers. But you know, heavily involved in research about policy, administration and organizations, those are the things that drive me, because I understand that without those policies, those at the ground level, or at the street level, so to speak, would not have a way to do their job. There were no policies governing your practice, you wouldn’t be able to practice.
Dr. O:
Well, I guess I’m somewhere in the mezzmo department, cuz I am a clinician, but also, you know, avenues like this podcast and things like that. I’ve tried to do more advocacy work. So that’s awesome. So thank you for educating me on what I’m doing. And I want to just piggyback off of something that you said, which is, you know, from the health disparities section, which I honestly, obviously, I’d know racism exists, but because I don’t personally have a lot of health issues. I definitely don’t have sickle cell. I hadn’t thought about it as much in the health in the healthcare sector, although having had two babies, I have also observed some of that, but I’m just thinking, yeah, yeah. But I’m thinking about a person with sickle cell, like you mentioned, you know, potentially financial barriers and things like that. They might not have wouldn’t be able to access a therapist, because their basic concern is survival. You know, they got to make sure they can get well, first before they can even tap into the micro work. So your macro work, which is making resources available, advocating for them, letting them know that they have support creating things like this Facebook group, so that, you know, they could come together. That’s that’s what they need, because they won’t even be able to utilize, you know, therapists at that point. Is that pretty?
Andre Harris:
Yeah. Yes. So, to go off of what you just said, mental health. As I said, of course, I’ve been living with sickle cell my whole life. But the last couple of years being almost a full time advocate in traveling throughout the country. And I’ve even presented some of my research throughout the world is that patients and providers, and other people that are stakeholders in the sickle cell disease, have acknowledged that mental health is something that is not addressed properly in the sickle cell. And there are a lot of people like you said that, at this point, they’re just trying to survive day, day to day, and when they may want to see it there. Because they may want to see someone to help them with their mental health issues. But first of all, they can’t even afford to get to their doctor’s appointments, let alone to see therapies. So these are things and like I said, with my group, black men in social work, of course, we’re catering to men who are social workers. But because I created the group, I can kind of be a little biased. And I always share with the group that it is my desire that however it happens is that the men in the group find a way to be involved in their circles, yes, yes, wherever they are, right? Because we need more people to be educated, that are clinicians, that will be able to be able to provide culturally appropriate services to sickle cell patients. And also to say this, a lot of people still think that sickle cell is a black only disease. And so if they’re still thinking, then that’s, again, what kind of perpetuates the healthcare discrimination. And so if we can get more people to understand that sickle cell disease impacts disproportionately more people that are African American, but it does not exclude people who are not, you will kind of understand that there are a plethora of issues that people with sickle cell face. On the flip side of that coin, I have friends that are white or Hispanic. And I’ve actually met a couple of Asians that have sickle cell disease, and they, their mental health is impacted. They say they have PTSD, they say they have certain mental health issues, because when they present to an emergency room, because they’re not black, and they say they’re having a sickle cell crisis, they’re basically laughed at and they’re basically not believed. And they have to be retested and humiliated. And their health outcomes are significantly tanked in the toilet. You know, every minute that they have to bear, someone said, well, we’re gonna test you again, because this isn’t right. When that that person should have known just because they’re not black. That doesn’t mean they don’t have sickle cell. So the mental health is a big…
Dr. O:
Can I ask a follow up question to that? So they don’t, so they don’t have like any black in them?
Andre Harris:
Right. So, no, there’s no need to apologize because I love when people ask questions. instead of assuming in perpetuating like I said, these issues. So sickle cell disease was something that we learned to be basically without trying to get into a genetic or biological lecture, is that basically was our body’s response. Remember, we learned about natural selection and Darwin and all again, in biology in school. So our body through natural selection was like, hey, Malaria is is killing everybody. We need to find a way to protect us from malaria. So sickle cell became a mutation to protect. Well, let me say the sickle cell trait was a response to protect those people who lived in Sub Saharan Africa.
Dr. O:
Yes, yes.
Andre Harris:
But not only Africa, but if you think about Africa, sits at the south of Europe.
Dr. O:
Oh,
Are people who are Greek there are people who are from arm that all mediterranean backgrounds. People from Spain, people from, you know, all that region that have sickle cell. And also, when when we talk about African folks don’t think about Morocco and it’s in Africa.
Dr. O:
Yeah.
Andre Harris:
It’s not just people from Nigeria. . You know, we think, and I’m not saying this to be funny at all, but when we think Africa, we think black, right, right.
Dr. O:
But no, you’re right.
Andre Harris:
African that aren’t black. And that’s another thing. People think because they are non black, that they had to have sex with somebody that was black, which is probably true in some cases. But again, if you are from Greece, or if you’re from any other country, and it has just been inherited, through your bloodline, it doesn’t matter where it came from, you could have developed that trait to protect you from malaria, and not have been a black person. So I know like, again, in here in North Carolina, there’s a family, if I’m not mistaken, the father’s Irish and the mothers. Or I may have it inverted, but they are white, white, or they’re not black.
Dr. O:
Yeah, they’re not black.
And they’re children, they have multiple children with sickle cell disease. So that another thing that goes back to educating so that people will be aware, because a lot of the disparities that we see in healthcare is because that we don’t get enough federal dollars. We don’t get enough federal dollars for raising awareness advocacy. There are other genetic disorders that have less than half of the population that we do here in America, they get more funding than we do. And why is that and I hate to play the race card, bt these genetic disorders are predominantly white or non-colored, to say that we’re not people.You know, the majority of the population. And people hate when I bring the numbers just simply sfacts, this is I can back this up by empirical research.
Dr. O:
Yes. That’s why research is so important.
Andre Harris:
Absolutely. That’s why I’m saying that’s why I’m very passionate about doing this type of research, especially when it comes to sickle cell disease. Because a lot of people think I’m just talking about things. I think I know, or I assume, right? I don’t make any claims unless I read an article. And I could, you know, I don’t I don’t, I don’t have time to be, you know, saying, well, I could write
Dr. O: Right, all right.
Andre Harris:
And this journal has, you know, you know, it’s peer review. So I know that I could, you know, rely on this information. And you know, God bless Couzin Pookie… he means well but he doesn’t know what he’s talkin’ about.That’s, that’s really, what what drives me. And again, another thing back to your question, the mental health, again, going back to, I’m a big history, will, I call myself an amateur history buff, too, especially. And if we understand the historical and justices that black people have experience in this country’s the 400 years that we that we’ve been here, then we will understand what sickle cell patients go through. And again, like I said, it’s not a black disease, but we are the majority of the population here in America. So that being said, a lot of people with sickle cell disease live at or below the federal poverty level. A lot of people with sickle cell disease are victims of the racial wealth gap. A lot of people with sickle cell disease don’t have quality health care. They don’t wow says any huh? And so that’s why we see a lot of terrible news, we see a lot of terrible statistics. And that’s why one of the biggest customers for me when you talk about sickle cell patients, or any people of color in the healthcare industry is noncompliant, or in it, hmm. Because they, people throw those words around, and they have derogative connotations. But people don’t want to understand why that patient isn’t here. And people don’t want to understand why that patient is not compliant. And again, this is a life that I don’t know about, or that I read about. This is a life. Where a patient like me, that my hematologist my sickle cell specialist an hour away. I don’t have so if I don’t have a car, how do I get to a my oh my goodness, I miss my appointment. And then the next time I come or someone calls me and says you know you’re not compliant a year inadherent and we’re going to discharge For my care, and you’re chiding me, but you’re not trying to Hey, I realized that you missed, is there a way that we can help you?
Dr. O:
Yeah.
Andre Harris:
Like, provide me resources to be able to figure out how I could, you know, jump over those hurdles in my life to make sure that I am a patient. So until the healthcare arena understands this population really doesn’t have the resources that other populations have, because, believe it or not, is, you know, racially motivated, like, I am a descendant. And I am a victim of the ratio. Well, my ancestors didn’t have the generation that I could use to help, you know, me fund my home, my ancestors didn’t have the access to, you know, any of these resources that would be able to help me down the line. My mother, my grandpa, they didn’t have these, you know, this, this resource. So, you know, we see people have white, you know, there, I read an article recently where this guy, his grandmother died, or somebody died and left him a $2 million. He didn’t even put the kicker was his, like, he didn’t know her or soemthing like that. Wow, like, she was like, a long ball. Huh. Most black folks.
Dr. O:
Right.
Andre Harris:
Even though and then I think also twist of the story, was he I guess was not rich? So he just came in? Wow.
Dr. O:
Overnight? We don’t know. We don’t
Andre Harris:
you know, have a long loss aunt was, you know, a sharecropper, you know, and her mama was, the maid. Where we get in this way. And but people don’t understand how I talk about two of those subjects. They they all correlate, if I can afford health care, then my health care is not going to be as good as the other person who can’t afford their health. Wow. And especially when we talk about the political campaigns. That’s another reason why I’m passionate about macro. Organizing is about voting, we have another saying that voting is work. And I have to vote. It’s a burden of mine that I made sure that I research candidates and vote for the right people, because health care to me, and this is my opinion. And I’m not backing any right to threaten anybody’s. But to me, no one in this country should be denied health care, because they’re poor. And no one in this country should be denied health care, because they don’t have the education or the resources. At to me everybody, you know, and I’m a proponent, excuse me of Medicare for all, I think everybody should have the right of Ford, and to have access to health care to me, because I have sickle cell disease, I should have the same quality home care, then somebody who’s a millionaire that has cancer that’s getting stellar care at at top teaching hospital. So this is really why I’m very excited and passionate, as a recent graduate to start getting out in the streets as my opinion, and to really educate people and to challenge them on why they didn’t know.
Dr. O:
Yeah.
Andre Harris:
Gosh, you just said so much like literally, I mean, it was I know and you know, I want to kept listening. and I wanted to keep going. I just have some follow up questions I want to well, actually just a thought that’s kind of like deeming in on me to just process and what I’m hearing you say is that in addition to black people being poor, in addition to them having negative stereotypes about their behavioral stuff, when you tackle a healthcare issue on top of that, that just they got to deal with all that other stuff. But then their health is impacted as well, because I can just hear you, you know, black men in general, are accused of not being compliant, not listening to authority and following the rules. And then, you know, doctor’s appointment, like you know what I mean? So, so, yeah, so your hands are full, because not only are you charged with letting black comforting black people and educating them and letting them know, this is what’s going on, but you’re still navigating a white world of healthcare, thatyou know, we still have to be cautious of what we say and offended then we need the resources so you can’t be like, you know, you’re racist. Black people, they can’t afford it, you know, get it together. Right?
Andre Harris:
You, you know?
Dr. O:
Yeah. Yeah. And and that’s a great point as well is that, um, being an effective advocate, you have to learn how to pick the right man.
Andre Harris:
And so, like I said earlier, I have been afforded the opportunity to go to different states capitals. Of course, I’ve been to the North Carolina Capitol, the legislator. And I’ve sat on boards with our chair, and through the state. And so I say that not to make myself sound when you are you are awesome. No, I’m not. But I say that to say that I have been in the company of great people and powerful people. And what I have seen is that I’ve seen people had that once in a lifetime, sometimes opportunity to be in the presence. And then even and I’m not saying that their angst is not true, or you know, what they’re going through is not real. But you have to learn how to enhance because if Donald Trump invites me to his house tomorrow to talk about sickle cell? Yeah, yeah, if he does, you know, right. Some people will be like, Oh, you know, I’m going, and I ain’t bought. Because I’m in, right?Yes, you have to learn how to take advantage of that anger, channel it to be able to appropriately like I have been on certain governors councils I have, I just got invited to be on a federal work group for sickle cell disease. And I have met people that are directly under the Attorney General, you know, I’ve met people that are in certain influence power, they have power in the healthcare arena in this in this government. And if I just went in there as the person which I will do, you know,
nobody’s listening to you.
Dr. O:
Wow, wow.
Andre Harris:
Congress in Washington, DC up into other, and I get the same response. But you don’t hear that when you talk about AIDS, you don’t hear that we when we talk about cancer, because again, that’s something that affects the Bri, there are people. And again, I’m not saying that white people don’t know.
Dr. O:
Yeah, we get our point, we get the point. But it’s this way, I shouldn’t you know, more of us have it right. Let’s get into the people who make the decisions.
Andre Harris:
Right.
Andre Harris:
And it’s more relatable because I’m sure a legislator or whoever, that’s in office, they have a cousin who has HIV, but they mean, they may not have sickle cells, and a lot of them say you’re the first person that I’ve met. So for me to know what I’m saying. So we have to really have to pick our battles, know how to fight them wisely. resolved result. So that’s why I’m just like you said, even with black men and black men in social work with the umbrella of this conversation, but black men in general, there’s a lot of things that will go and being a black man with sickle cell.
Dr. O:
Oh, my goodness.
Andre Harris:
Yeah. And then I also wanted to mention before my work with men who have been sexually assaulted, because I think even in policy and advocacy in that space to a lot of the policies that are written about any type of sexual misconduct, rape, assault on a nation, anything from a policy standpoint, really is written with a female. And so when we when we think about men, and again, this is empirical research, and that has been, not what but what is six men have been a victim of sexual assault, sexual abuse. So that means to me that there are a lot more men that have been victims that have that are those that actually glow. Absolutely. But why is that when, culturally speaking, especially in the black culture, when a guy talks about Oh, man, she raped me or she molested me or I was abused by him or her people, clown them. If it was a woman who was the one that I can know, you got it.
Dr. O:
When a woman is victimized, she is treated differently.
Andre Harris:
Mm hmm. I got totally tongue tied woman’s the demise. There’s a blank report that surrounds her. But when a man comes up and speaks out, well, there’s nothing there for them to fall back on. And a lot of them are made fun of because I know me personally, who said, Well, I told my friends and they said, Well, you should have enjoyed it. If your babysitter raped you, you should have liked it, right?
Dr. O:
Right.
Andre Harris:
We don’t we don’t say that. A woman? I mean, if we did, we would be black. Right? Right. Because that’s just not something so why is it when a, man, get victimized. And again, I understand that there. We have issues of hedge money and patriarchy. In this country, I understand that men have not been the greatest women. But that doesn’t negate the fact that men are disappointed. Um, that that just makes me I don’t… know what I’m saying. Like they no one really hears I have been to advocacy days for this topic. Not as much as I have for sickle cell. But when we talk about it, folks are like, okay, so wouldn’t right. Like they right. They don’t don’t know what to do with me. I know, man that goes to church. I know many schools in the community that have told me in private Hey, I’m glad that you gave me the courage to tell my wife that I was molested by my pastor, while I was molested. molested by mine. And I never told me
Dr. O:
And you know what, you know what’s interesting about what you’re saying? Um, we’re both passionate. So forgive me if I cut you off, because I feel like I need to
know you’re fine.
Andre Harris:
You’re fine. Is it?
Dr. O:
Yes.
Andre Harris:
And what you’re talking about is the what I think we miss in the black community, which is, and I’ve said this on other podcasts, we are constantly warning our children to be careful of strangers, the 10% of people who actually raped kids that they don’t know what the 90% of who is getting access to girls and boys. Are these people that you trust you trust? Yes, yeah. And people, we just, you know, we really, I’m gonna say this every chance I get on every different episode of this podcast on these podcasts. Because it’s true. I mean, we really need to be focusing on those people who are closest to us, whom we trust or the care with our children as as people who molest children in rape them.
Dr. O:
Yeah, I totally agree.
Andre Harris:
And then even not even the children, there have been men. And I think this is the biggest issue is you know, how women, you know, some women were molested or raped as children. They were raped or molested or abused as adults, is that there have been men who had been taken advantage of as adults. And they definitely don’t want to tell anybody because you’re supposed Oh, yeah, man. And how can you let somebody take advantage of you? When I know, I know, people who have, you know, been taken advantage of by woman who either got drunk or scribed something right? Or they woke up. And it just somebody sprang to, but for the main, say something, and then I know, there was one story where the guy did try to import it. And the woman turned around and said, Well, no, whoa, wow. And they believe so there’s another culture of we’re always gonna female. Wow. And if he cries rate, whatever you say, window. And I know people who have been athletes who have, who have never been able to go to college, who had been kicked out of college, had lost their jobs from people crying, rape or molestation or somebody touching them, and they knew it. So now we’ve created a culture of people who know how to manipulate us know how to, you know, certain certain cultural factors. So now that I know that people are going to believe me because I’m a female Now, if I don’t like him, or if I want to have sex with him, and he turns me down, or if he does something to me that I don’t like me, because I noticed, like, whether he did it or not, because by the time they prove that he didn’t do it, he’s like, he’s already Oh,
Andre Harris:
That’s true.
Dr. O:
You just don’t want that on your record at all. And I think a lot of this really has to go with just education, and letting people hear and know and like you said, instead of listening to cousin Pookie, and them, you know, do your research, Get Schooled on this? And really, you know, make decisions based on education Yeah, absolutely. Yes, yes. So, where do we go now? I mean, there’s just so much going on. Are there any? Are there any resources because I, you know, just listening to you talk, the sexual assault stuff is such a big thing. So I think that when I’m thinking is, we might need to just postpone that part for the interview, and then we can probably have you back. Because this is, you know, I really want you to get Yeah, awesome. Awesome. So yeah, we’ll talk about that. Um, let’s, let’s switch back, though, to to the sickle cell just to make sure that we give that the attention that it needs. Oh, gosh, are there any resources in general that you can just share with the person that a person with sickle cell access to help them when they’re not attending doctor’s visits or not being accused of, you know, not being compliant?
Dr. O:
Yeah.
Andre Harris:
Yeah, most definitely. So I tell every sickle cell patient, if they are not connected to a, what we call scda. Member organization. ncda stands for the sickle cell disease Association of America. And so we have seabios, which is community based organizations. And so we have a presence in the majority of the 50 states, where there are community organizations that their job is to really help provide social support services to those patients. And so I tell every patient if they are not connected to a community based organization in their community, to make sure that they find their nearest one and get connected, and so that they will have that social support. If not, for anything else, a support group, most the majority of them offer support groups. And then also, I would tell them to go on the FDA website. Again, if they are not, the majority of people that are in our community know what FDA is, but there’s some that don’t. So they don’t know what scda is. On the website, there’s so much information for them to, for them to glean from. So that’s the biggest one, I would say. And then also, I would say that they should, and this is going to resources. CDC has a a hub for sequels. So if it’s just for them to be further educated on their knees, if it’s for them to find other links to resources. The CDC has a hub that they compiled a lot of resources for some disease. So those two are ones that I will also say that I would tell every sickle cell patient, I think it’s worth a go that every patient if they don’t have insurance, that they contact their local social security administration to apply for many, I think that’s because a disease like sickle cell disease, again, from a research article costs about it helping I get this number wrong, but I think they said about two. Wow, wow. Wow, just to maintain, are you serious?
Dr. O:
Wow.
Andre Harris:
Yeah. And from my understanding, again, I hope I’m conceptualizing this and disseminating this information, right is that it’s numbers that are used for my guests like Medicaid, Medicare. So that’s how much the burden is for people. So I say that to say it, isn’t it specific. And if I, like I said, I’ve lived in I’ve lived for years without any type of insurance. So if you don’t have insurance, that is a major barrier to you having quality care, because if you don’t have insurance, well, I’m not gonna go to the hospital because right at 40, where I’m at right now, so you’re gonna, you’re gonna deprive yourself of that access need, because you don’t you have no way to afford it. So I definitely mountain manage every patient doesn’t have insurance to contact their Social Security Administration. And I will also say this, I had to, really so I think I did and so I applied by myself, multiple counts. Wow, wow, I think it’s worth mentioning that because a lot of people I tell that to they’ll say, Oh, I never thought about get a lawyer, because they’re don’t, that’s a whole, I will be talking about that. But get a lawyer try to apply for Social Security. So you could get Medicaid and Medicare, and we not having a debate that you want to live off it is, you know, not lazy. I’ve heard a lot of people say that about people.
Dr. O:
You want to live? Yeah, yes.
Andre Harris:
People have such a warped concept of what social security and entitlement benefits are for. And I have to really check people that the majority people getting a social security check ain’t making thousands of dollars if I could, you know, if I go into the workforce and make the money that I want to, I want, but because, right Hello, really has. Right doing so. But again, not to start to hope right now. But so make sure you know, I was telling every patient, please. And then also, I told him that look into all the other programs food, like these things are here. And a lot of people like to demonize them, but I’m doing your podcast. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I’m not hungry.
Andre Harris:
Because you can’t work because you know, yeah.
Dr. O:
Yeah. Like, please don’t. There’s so much around that. So but I really think those are very imperative. I’ve seen so many people, myself included, having to decide whether or not and no one no, no one should ever have to make that choice.
Andre Harris:
Oh, my God, my heart just goes out to that. And I just feel I mean, I’ll be honest with you, I’m only those 100 Americans, who obviously knew racism was sick was, you know, present, but hadn’t really thought much about it in the healthcare field, especially with sickle cell. So, you know, Martin Luther King said that, out of all the in justices out there that injustice and discrimination in health care is the most inhumane. And that was one of my favorite quotes.
Dr. O:
I love it. But it’s so it is very true. It is very true. Well, just listening to you, you know, and I’m thinking about people I know, I do know that I have a cousin who has it. My mother and my brother are both carriers of one of my children as a carrier, but or have the trait but I don’t know much beyond that. But I can imagine that the people listening to this show, which, as we, you know, as you know, are African American, will either have it themselves or know someone who does. So what would you recommend? Like how can we as black families support our loved ones who have sickle cell? And how can we? Yeah, if we have it, how can we ask for support from our family?
Andre Harris:
I love your questions.
Dr. O:
Thank you.
Andre Harris:
So I will say that number one, what I didn’t say I also would like to say, for those that are listening, I think everyone, regardless if you’re black, or not everyone should know, just like we talked about, everyone should know their HIV AIDS. Or they need to know, you know, get tested for STDs as highs, I think everyone should know their status about sickle cell injury. So I think everyone if they don’t know should go get a test to see if they are a carrier and see if they have sickle cell. Some people have lived with sickle cell for you didn’t know No, wow, wow. It’s kind of rare for that. Because if our presentation is very, but there’s some people who have lived and was sick and didn’t know what it was, and they finally found out they had, well,
Dr. O:
Well, and I can hear from you just the discrimination and stuff that even goes on with that, like as black people, we’re taught that life is hard. And that you know what I mean, and we’re not encouraged to go to the doctor, we’re not encouraged to get healthy. So I, as unfortunate as it is, I can fully hear and see how someone could be miserable their whole life and have no idea.
Andre Harris:
So definitely, I would say first and foremost, everybody needs to know their status. So that’s just a PSA before you ask your question. But in order to provide more resources again, and this is I’m laughing because I normally when something happens, I jokingly tell like my family. Well, I have sickle cell so blah, blah, blah. Or I have sickle cell. And I say that. But a lot of people don’t understand that sickle cell really does impact every area of a person’s life from their vision, from their you know, their speech. Their cognition, especially people, a lot of people with sickle cell. Wow. So they have delayed or Aramis. So there’s so many. If you think about it, sickle cell disease is a blood. Blood is, you know, we talk about life. And in Christian sections, say, we understand how important money is. But there’s no part of our body that is not affected by blood, their blood has to flow every two to four hours. Wow. Uh huh, is that if you think about that, if it’s a blood disorder, and blood flows everywhere, that means there’s a potential for sickle cell disease to impact or any part. And I say all that to make an establishment of that. I think a lot of people expect too much. Like you said, from people with sickle cell because us as black people are basically taught wrong. And so when you show male or female, male or female when you show Hey, I’m not feeling well, or I’m not doing well. And yeah, it’s because I have sickle cell, a lot of people just scuffing black girl, you better get up and wash dishesBoy, you better wash these clothes, and not really understand that. And, again, mental health issues depression. So I lay all that as a foundation to say that the biggest thing is that parents, family members, cousins, aunties, friends need to realize when their loved one that has sickle cell is saying something that they can’t do, or it’s hard for them to do right now. Listen, don’t push them beyond their limits. That’s one of the things because that’s a whole nother lecture about how sickle cell leads to fatigue, and lack of desire to do things. And that that’s all biological. But when you understand that, I think people wouldn’t be so hard on people, I and my family never really was like that. But I’ve had a lot of friends or church members who really didn’t understand what I’m on through and push me and had expectations of me that when I didn’t meet them, it not only sad, or hurt me. But if they didn’t understand why I couldn’t do it.
Andre Harris:
And how much of that evening might go back to race because you know, he’s just not motivated, or he’s lazy, or he you know, is not right.
Andre Harris:
And as a student. And again, as you said, we’ve been cutting out as students. So again, I just graduated, I will be 31. And I just graduated. And so I look like so most people, I
thought you were younger.
Andre Harris:
Most people who see me who don’t know, me just assumed that I am a traditional undergraduate student. But when I was an undergrad the first time in 2007, I had to leave school because I can’t. So a lot of people when they learned that I basically dropped out of school, and why you need school? It’s not. And we put so many demands expectations on people, they have chronic illnesses and not understand that they have cried. Yeah. And that even though some people do use it as it’s very lucky for a lot of people that they just cannot meet up with me. So that is the biggest thing I can say for the loved ones of those who do. And then I also would say for them to really educate themselves. Again, I’m a big advocate of education. The more education you have, the less ignorant you are,
Dr. O: oh my goodness, yeah. is yes.
Andre Harris:
educate them about the disease, and then that’s when they can genuinely show some type of support. And my family knows that there’s some days where I just can’t, I want to say I can’t, but I choose not to get out of me. And I needed a day where I could Yes, and recover and relax because it’s hard to explain what you feel. Having sickle cell disease. There’s some days where I am energized like the energized, energized. Uh huh. Uh huh. In in within 10 minutes, I could be in the corner, you know, just you know, in a milling so it you know, there’s a lot of ups and downs and for the most part, my family understands and respects them and when they call me or come by that it’s a Netflix and chill data. Right.
Begin it Good,
Dr. O:
Awesome. Awesome. Well, Andre, we’re going to just switch to a part of the show now that we call What’s Good? And What’s Good? is where we take a hypothetical situation that could be happening to one of our listeners and ask your professional advice. Are you ready? All right, meet Jerel. Jerel is a 24 year old African American male with sickle cell disease, he has recently been feeling a lot of pain in his joints, he has been dizzy, and he feels fatigued, period. He knows that he needs emotional and physical support, but has no idea where to access resources outside of the hospital. Do you have any advice for drill?
Andre Harris:
Well, with the symptoms of fatigue and all that, I would first say that I think he should go to the hospital to see a doctor, just to make sure if there’s a lot of things that happen in the inside of the body, again, that fatigue or distress or any of that may present itself. That may be something a lot longer. So I would say make sure he sees someone to make sure there’s no underlying issues there. And then also, like I said before, really being able to find a way to provide the foundation. So like I said, I think everybody should have inheritance. So he maybe he needs to go to the Social Security Administration and apply. Maybe he maybe if he has, you know, benefits from his spouse or parents or whoever, you know, utilize those insurance resources and find a clinician in the mental health arena that will be able to tell him love it. Yeah. But again, just to kind of tag to his story. foundations have to be made, you have to find those basic resources that you need, and provide for them. And that’s what I always tell my fellow colleagues, and patients with sickle cell, build that foundation. So you know, you need insurance, you know, you need some type of access to transportation, you know, you need food, you know, you need, you know, certain resources to help you stay alive and be a viable citizen of this community, yes, to make sure that you get those status. So that’s why I made sure I got Social Security. That’s why I made sure I applied. That’s why I made sure I applied these things, so that they could be a real foundation. And he really needs that. I love it. Love it.
Dr. O:
Amazing. Amazing. Well, Andre, you have been a wealth of just knowledge and inspiration to me and my audience. Yes, absolutely. And I know that people are going to want to be able to contact you and just get a little bit more information. So can you just use this time right now to let our listeners know where they can find you?
Andre Harris:
Yes, so if they want to email me, they can email me at Andremarcelharris@gmail.com. So that’s basically my first middle and last name and calm. And I’ll put that in the show notes. I have your email.
Dr. O:
Awesome.
Andre Harris:
They can follow me on twitter @Andre89. I’m on Instagram @AndreMarcelHarris. And they can always search and find me on Facebook. Andre Marcel Harris, and those are the main three platforms I use, especially when it comes about advocacy and all that and all of those things. So if they want to learn a lot more about me or the work I’m doing or sickle cell or anything else, they could follow me in those avenues and is specifically for black men. And so you could follow him on twitter black men in SW. m so at Blackman is Blackman in Social Work, or on Instagram, black at black men in social work. Please reach out?
Dr. O:
Yes.
Andre Harris:
Yes, of course, please do. And if you are on Facebook, you of course could just go into your search and type in black men and social work. And you should find our group and our like page. And if you are a black man and social work, we would love for you to join. And as I said in the hip hop Social Work podcast is that this demand is something that I did not foresee when I created it and now, I am trying my best to meet the demands, but I have no operating no operating account. I have you know, it’s just me right now. So I do say that as a disclaimer for people to bear with me as I tried to explore some of the ideas that have been given to me some The ideas that I have is kind of still in its infancy. So I really would like to see more that we do as black men in social work. But at this time, we’re still kind of in the grassroots level. So please bear with me. But we would love to have you we would love for you to benefit from that. That camaraderie for, again, like I said, earlier, people have received jobs.
Dr. O:
Amazing.
Andre Harris:
And their life has been changed for the better from groups. So I encourage
yes, I do as well just look at the opportunities that you have provided just even though you’re not directly working with clients per se, just by providing this medium, and this resource in this planning the seat, people have been able to tap into that and now expand and go on and do great things. And I’m just I’m really proud of you. I’m really proud of you. And I thank you for what you’re doing. Thank you for joining us today. I’m gonna definitely follow up with you again, because you have a wealth of knowledge. I really want to tap into black men and sexual assault and in a later episode, if that’s okay with you. Yeah, stick again. Thank you for coming and you’d be blessed.
Dr. O:
All right, you too. Bye.