Dr. Connie Omari
Hello hello hello and welcome to the black Marriage and Family Therapy Matters podcast, where we are breaking generational curses in the black community. Today’s guest is Mr. Keanu Jackson. Hi, Keanu. Hey. How are you doing?
Keanu Jackson, LMSW
I’m doing so well today; I’m really just trying to lean into rest. Hey, you know
Dr. Connie Omari
me as well. We are done. You can get all the rest you need. Let me let our awesome guests know how amazing you are. Is that okay? Yeah, that sounds good. Good. All right, Keanu, who goes who is pro now is here for him, is a charismatic and thoughtful queer, black psychotherapist, educator, and visionary based in Brooklyn, New York, who earned his Masters of Social Work degree from Columbia University, having been raised in historic Fort Pierce, Florida. Keanu. His introduction into liberation work came as a result of his struggling to locate language in spaces that allowed him to feel seen, heard, understood, and cared for. At the forefront of his work is an emphasis on bodily autonomy, agency, and expression as necessary components for healing and liberation. Kiana believes that the body is a sacred entity that houses the many intricate pieces of the core self that work in tandem to offer room for empowerment and self-acceptance. As a survivor of sexual trauma and ongoing anti-black racism and violence. Keanu practices radical joy and play, which are woven into the tender gratitude towards himself that he wishes to share with others. Within his therapy sessions, Keanu invites his clients to channel this gratitude as a means to grant themselves permission to slow down and tend to the body’s needs. During his workshops, he highlights the importance of community as a conduit for nurturing, sharing understanding, and inciting action. To him, we each have rich personal narratives that deserve to be protected and preserved as mantras of our undeniable worth. This aside, Keanu is a fun-loving, witty, and kink-positive force of danger. Who knows a bit too much about cartoons and loves to probably get, gee, that has to be the most amazing bio ever.
Keanu Jackson, LMSW
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Dr. Connie Omari
Thank you. Let me just say this really quickly: your vulnerability and transparency make me just love you to death. Okay. And you’re not even my therapist. And I just want to say that because I know that a lot of times, you know, our clients come to us and they’re hurting. And they’re going through stuff. And they’re scared, they’re reserved, and they just don’t It’s just hard. It’s hard to open up to somebody about something so personal, especially in our community, and we’re going to talk about that. But the fact that you just said it all makes me feel like we Freds really do Yeah, thank you. So well, obviously. Well, I went to Colombia, by the way. When did you graduate? If you don’t mind me asking,
Keanu Jackson, LMSW
Yeah, so I graduated with my social work degree in 2020.
Dr. Connie Omari
Okay. Okay. So I went a little bit further. And I was in the Teachers College. Okay, amazing. Yeah. Yeah. So pretty cool. Pretty cool. Awesome. So, um, well, typically, I like to ask, What got you into this work? Um, yeah, I guess we can start there. I mean, you kind of told us, but you know, a lot. A lot of people go through things, and they just want to be removed from them. What do you think it was about you—maybe your experience if you want to go there, or just life in general—that said, No, I really want to sit here and help other people?
Keanu Jackson, LMSW
Yeah, absolutely. And so, as was mentioned a little bit in my bio, I grew up in a very historic, very rich black community in a small town in south Florida. Okay. And I attribute a lot of my interest in things like education, my interests, learning curiosity, etc., to my late grandmother, who was an educator within the community before she passed away. So she was a librarian, and she was a teacher for a very, very, very long time. And so I felt like I was in an environment that really highlighted the importance of education. And not only that, but really just asking questions about, like, what was happening around me. And so as I grew up, I began to witness, I began to notice, and I began experiencing a lot of institutional harm that I really did not have language for; I didn’t really know how to express myself, I didn’t really know how to describe what was happening. And for me, I really wanted to try and figure out not only what was happening, but if I’m being impacted to this degree, how can I use this as an opportunity to continue toIconnect the community, advocate for resources, and locate avenues for us to have just better access to healing? And really, just having an opportunity to think about, Well, where is my place within all of this? And so eventually, that led me to college, where I majored in psychology. I found out about the social work field, and I was like, Oh, I can blend. Okay. Yeah. Mental health, social justice—all of this was super important for me and blended into this one nice, cute package. And I just leaped for it, jumped headfirst into it, applied to Columbia, and got in. And you know, here I am today, doing my thing out in the community, really trying to do my part, and continuing to provide this education to continue to bring folks together and to have these sorts of conversations. And really, just think about ways in which we can continue to honor ourselves, to fight for our liberation, and to give us a chance to just be and do something different than what’s expected.
Dr. Connie Omari
Let me ask you: first of all, thank you. Thank you for that. Thank you for that. What do you think is hard? Because in the black community, you know, I mean, you’re right, we don’t really embrace the queer community as we should, and more specifically, the black church. So it is a member of the Black Church? I feel like that needs to be set. Why do you think that is?
Keanu Jackson, LMSW
Yeah. So this is a very huge conversation that, first off, again, comes up, but at the same time, I feel like it doesn’t. You know, in my most honest of opinions, I just say, Well, look at the history of just what does it mean to be black, specifically within the United States, right, and just behaviors and beliefs and conditions that we’ve had to just adapt in order to survive? Right. And so when it comes to some of the distancing from, like, the queer community, in particular, I’m thinking about, well, how often, you know, was it just ironed into us that if we didn’t fit within this box, and by this box, I mean, listen, our bodies were used to reproduce for labor, you know, we were treated quite literally as just like objects. For a long time, even to this day, a lot of us have been treated as if we were nothing more than objects. So I think, well, what queerness represents in and of itself is just so outside of that, right, that it can just be perceived as something that is very threatening. And I think that over time, you know, as black folks continuously had to try and survive, they had to do what they could to kind of keep a low profile in order to survive. Right? What that then changed into was this social belief, this conditioning, that queerness in and of itself was wrong, when that’s not true. Queer people have always existed; we’ve always been here, right? And so that’s a little bit of a rambling thread. But I really just think a lot of it just boils back down to the ways in which we were restricted, the ways in which we were herded into being nothing more than tools.
Dr. Connie Omari
Wow. Is it possible that I believe in discrimination anytime a group is discriminated against? You decided that, okay, I’m going to be an advocate, but it’s easy to just be like, Well, I’m just going to discriminate against somebody else. So do you think the black people will say, I’m black, but at least say black and gay, you know, and kind of discriminate against you all because you’re technically worse than just being black?
Keanu Jackson, LMSW
Well, I mean, I would say yes. And so I’ll start off by saying that, you know, throughout my own upbringing, I have had the privilege of having a family that’s incredibly accepting and a family that didn’t ostracize me because of my queerness by any means. In actuality, it was largely celebrated, which is something about which, again, I feel like I never had to worry. And so I get a lot of my perspectives from standing around it. You know, it’s like a little bit is like a little different. However, to your question to what you said, yes, I think that for a lot of us, you know, for a lot of folks who are straight and were cisgendered and street specifically, there can be some of this idea of, Oh, well, at least my child is not queer, or is that that community? You know, I only have to worry about them being black. And that is something that I had heard early on, when I had come out, was like, Oh, you know, I had always seen my mom after I came out to her. It was a very emotional time, not because she was like rejecting me, but because she sat me down and was like, Hey, this is how the world treats queer people. I want to support you. I don’t know how to protect you as a mother. Up until this point, I had only been trying to protect you, like a black boy growing into a black man. And now there’s this whole other level to it that I didn’t know about. And I think that the way that my mom approached me at the time, you know, really helped me to kind of better conceptualize just like, like, how queer people were treated, but also gave me what I like to call my first viewpoints and my first tidbits of understanding around the idea of intersectionality. And thinking about how, like, all of our identities exist concurrently in sync with one another. But I say to your question, it’s kind of like a yes. And because I do feel like there are a lot of folks who do try to distance themselves from queerness, From blackness, right. I see it online all the time, where people are talking about, oh, you know, the queer community, the LGBTQ+ people, being at odds with black people. And I’m just like, Black queer people exist. What are you talking about? Like, we are literally, they’re literally black queer people; there always have been black queer people; we’re not two separate entities; like, what are we literally talking about here? And so I think it’s like a yes. And there’s like a distancing. That happens, and I see it constantly. And at the same time, this higher level of awareness of like, Oh, well, at least I’m not black, and this, but normally, in my everyday day-to-day, what I view is, Oh, there’s a lot of folks who don’t even consider black people capable of being queer, which is
Dr. Connie Omari
one of the questions I have, and I like your take on it. I believe that the queer community has become more progressive, and please correct me if I’m wrong, but I guess I shouldn’t say more progressive, but just because of the way you just described it, I feel like it within the black community. Yes, I’m separating for the sake of this argument. I understand that blacks and queers can be the same. But in the black community in general, I feel like we’re more competitive, and we fight against each other. And we, you know, have the crab mentality: as one gets up, we pull each other down. And that’s part of the reason why we still have a lot of division here. But when I look at the queer community, black, white, blue, purple, whatever, I see all this sticking together more. And as a result, I think it’s like, I know, we have black history month, but you’re about to have your household month, you know, code up, you people are going to be paraded. And you know, all of these, but with the laws in the bathrooms and the, you know, letting y’all have equal opportunity to marry, just a lot of change in, I guess, a shorter amount of time. I mean, is there? Do you think that when you identify as queer, if you had to separate the two as a member of the queer community versus the black community, there is more inclusivity or more support for one another? Absolutely not?
Keanu Jackson, LMSW
Well, I say that because, like, there is no way to, for argument’s sake, separate my queerness and blackness; there’s quite literally no way to do that. My experiences are not, you know, as a black person or as a queer person, like my whole life. I’ve been a black queer person, you know. And so, when I’m thinking about progressiveness, for example, I don’t think that I think that for, you know, those of us who were like black and queer specifically, there’s not like, I don’t know, the question of what more progressive means, like, for example, I think it was only like a few weeks ago that I saw a headline saying that, like, queer men now are allowed to literally donate blood. It’s because we weren’t allowed to do so. Just because there’s stigma against men who have sex like that man, and like HIV and AIDS, etc., when straight people can also contract HIV,
But again, so like, it’s like there’s I just feel like there’s there’s I don’t think that there’s any way to, like, maybe hair
Dr. Connie Omari
Maybe you have it worse because, like I said, you’re black and queer. I know that a couple years ago, up until I think 2022, it was legal to discriminate against hair texture, like if someone at your job had nappy hair and an afro, and you didn’t want to hire them to do that. And when you could do that, you know, that was a problem, so I guess you have that plus not being able to donate blood.
Um, I want to ask this because what I think is beautiful about your story is that your family is so inclusive. So for people that are listening, what is it that your mom said to you? Or did it to you? Or, you know, what was it that made you feel because, because I know a lot of you, the shame and the guilt and the lack of support obviously make things worse. You know, not only do you have to deal with the stigma and the stereotypes, but then when your own family shuns you, you know, and I love that you’ve been spared from that. So what advice, I guess, would you give to a family that might have someone who’s either coming out? or is about to come out? Or somebody who wants to come out? Because, I mean, what are some strategies, I guess, to help that process?
Keanu Jackson, LMSW
Hmm, yeah, I don’t know if I have any, I guess, specific strategies. What I will say, though, is that, for example, if you have a child who, you know, is questioning, you know, their sexuality, or just their gender expression, etc. I just want to remind parents out there, specifically caregivers, that your children are not property. Your children are not property; your children, in fact, are not you. Right? They’re not replacements for you. They are their own individual people with their own individual experiences, desires, hopes, dreams, etc. And you need to be able to recognize and honor that there’s a difference between wanting to be a caregiver, wanting to protect, and then wanting to dominate. And I think that’s something that my mom did, like, you know, what my parents did in general was that they allowed me and like my siblings to always be our own individual people, right? Not comparing us, not telling us that we have to do XYZ or that we are, it’s expected for us to behave a certain way, giving us an opportunity to figure things out for ourselves, something that my mom says to me all the time, whenever we talk about parenting and just her decisions. For context, I’m the oldest of four. Something that she had always expressed to me was, You know, I never want a carbon copy, kids. I never wanted kids to be the exact same as me and to make the same decisions as me. I didn’t want any of my children to feel like whoever they were was, you know, going to be dismissed, not taken seriously, or ignored. I wanted my children to be themselves. That was my first priority. I want them to be themselves. I want them to be loved. And she meant that, and it’s evident, because me and my siblings are all totally different, totally different paths, all individuals; you know, I’m not the only queer one and like, and like, our family either. Like, there’s just a lot of places where very different people live, and it’s fantastic. Well, I
Dr. Connie Omari
I get the feeling that is fantastic. That is fantastic, Coots. I get the feeling, though, that you kind of knew when you came out to your mom that she was going to be okay. Like, is this going to be accepted? Is that pretty accurate?
Keanu Jackson, LMSW
So I did not know anything. So I made a lot of assumptions. I like to tell people that, like my mom, she knew I was queer before I knew I was queer. There was one time that she had specifically asked me—I think I was like 11—and she should have asked me if I was gay. And I had no idea what that even meant. I didn’t know what gay was. I was like, No, what are you talking about? I don’t know what that is. And then eventually I came out to her and my dad in my freshman year of high school. And so
Dr. Connie Omari
How did Dad respond? Was he supportive as well?
Keanu Jackson, LMSW
Yeah, I had no backlash or anything. Both of them wanted to talk more about it. Out of the two, my mom was more emotional. Not from a place of, Oh, no, my son is weird, but more so, Yo, like, this is the world. I want to be here and protect you. You can come to me. I know that you can come to me. That was like the energy that she had. My dad was just very upset, so we had to talk about it. I was kind of like, Whatever.” But he was just very interested in knowing more about it; he was very, very curious. So I was like, I don’t have answers for you. I did. I’m just vibing, I’m just here. I’m a freshman in high school. I don’t know anything. Yeah, and so I didn’t really know how my parents were going to respond, because a lot of the messaging that I still received from the environment, you know, just from being a person who was growing up, was that queer people are not accepted. You know, from what I had understood from what I had seen from my peers, it was almost expected that your family was going to have a terrible reaction no matter how much you thought their parenting, you know, was good and loving beforehand. From what I had seen and from what I’ve heard,
Dr. Connie Omari
It can go either way.
Keanu Jackson, LMSW
Not even that, but like, there was like a 90% chance that it was going to go terribly. And so I remember that my parents were not even the first people who I told when I came out at school during, like, a group presentation. And I was like, presenting like a topic. And I came out to, like, my whole class. For me, I was like, Okay, let me test the waters at school to see how people react. And then, yeah, let me see if I have friends. Who can you know? Support me in case it goes south with, like, my family?
Dr. Connie Omari
Did they support you?
Keanu Jackson, LMSW
Yeah, so I have friends who have definitely supported me. There are some people with whom I texted one-on one before I had my grand coming out. But then a lot of people didn’t even believe me. From freshman year up until I graduated, there were some people who were like, Oh, wait, you were like, you actually like you’re serious. I was like, Yeah.” Like to joke. So what are you talking about? So whatever. So, in hindsight, it was fine. I had nothing to worry about. I realized now as an adult that I went to a very clear, like, high school, at least like my graduating class, like it was very, very clear in hindsight. But, you know, when I was a kid, I didn’t really know anything. I was like, I’m just going to do this thing. See what happens?
Dr. Connie Omari
Well, what’s my very limited knowledge? You know, I mean, I certainly have friends from all different backgrounds. But not heavily in the queer community; I’ll be transparent about that. It’s not intentional. It’s just, I guess, birds of a feather flocking together. But this is this: I certainly have had clients and have seen, you know, the media and stuff like that. And, you know, you have probably the best story I’ve ever heard, in terms of just having so much support. And there’s no doubt that that has contributed to some of your success as well in your ability to be able to, you know, go on with your career and have, you know, just a different experience in life. What would you advise a person who didn’t have supportive parents or whose classmates did judge them? And, you know, what are some things you would suggest?
Keanu Jackson, LMSW
Yeah, and so, I can’t. Well, one, I’m going to preface by saying, you know, clearly, I’m not the spokesperson for the entire queer community. And also, you know, we’re not a monolith, right? We all have a variety of experiences. And so I think that when it comes to coming out, this is a point where I really try to emphasize community, and just like the idea that way, you know, your family can truly be whoever you make of it. And this is like something again that I’ve learned just from my mom, which I think has also been informed a lot by her parenting for context. My mom’s adopted. Sorry, your mom. My mom was adopted. So a lot of like her experience, you know, she has felt isolation; she’s felt what it would have been like to be mothered. Right, it’s like a lot of what she has taught me and my siblings is through this idea of creating meaningful connections with people who will be there for you. And so that is something that I like to pass on to the folks who may be thinking about coming out, right? Also, understanding that coming out isn’t for everybody, you don’t need to come out in order to be, validate, or affirm yourself, just like you know who you are on the inside.
Dr. Connie Omari
So you don’t need to tell people that you’re gay. No, you don’t
Keanu Jackson, LMSW
have to tell anybody. That’s not anyone else’s. Like, truly, that’s not. And we also need to be able to assess for safety. I mean, think about the people who are in your life currently. Like, who are the people who you feel you know and who you feel safe around?
Dr. Connie Omari
That’s why I asked this question, because, I mean, I understand what you said in terms of what you didn’t really know around this topic, but it sounds like, in general, your parents have been very supportive and understanding of you. So I’m not disputing what you said about your own life? Because you’re, you know, the best. But if it sounds like they would have objected to it, it would have been very, very out of the norm. But what if sometimes, you know, people have to? Well, I guess, like you said, they don’t have to; they don’t have to come out. And if you know, you’ve got a conservative dad who’s like a stone-home Christian who is going to, you know, ostracize you and judge you. That’s really what I want to know—do you have to have that conversation with me?
I have a cousin in my family who I’m thinking about right now. And he came out to nobody, you know, and it’s just like, we all know, but it’s just,
You know, we don’t really talk about it because he does it. Well, guess what? I don’t talk about it. But, um, yeah, do so. So basically, we don’t have to have those. Rather than harm ourselves by coming out to somebody who’s going to judge me, it’s better to just say that, from what I’m hearing, it does not say anything at all.
Keanu Jackson, LMSW
I mean, it’s up to the person and how they feel at the end of the day, but the point is, really, you’re coming out; it’s not anybody else’s business; no one should be forcing you to come out, right? If you feel like, if you are a person who feels like you have a family member who might be queer, you have a friend that might be queer, that’s not your responsibility to go, like, digging into their business to try and uncover the truth, right? Like, no, ultimately, what’s coming out is your business. It has to be rooted in your own feelings of safety.
Dr. Connie Omari
And that’s okay. So why would a person who feels that their family might judge them do so? What will be the benefit to that person who is still coming out? I guess that’s where I’m a little confused. Why? You know, I was going to do it.
Keanu Jackson, LMSW
Yeah, I mean, there are some folks who, for example, are seeking just like connection, or, let’s say, if they are a person who grew up in a very strict religious upbringing, they may feel like there is some tension, not necessarily between them and their religion, but I guess like how that religion has been discussed within, like the home, or maybe they feel like, okay, I don’t really have any folks who have a sense of who I am, right? And I want to talk to a sibling, or I want to, you know, talk to a parent. The parent’s role is to protect as the caregiver, right? And unfortunately, unfortunately, what we see a lot of times is that folks kind of use, like their care or their love. It’s like their care and their love come with a set of terms and conditions, which unfortunately doesn’t impact a lot of queer people. And so, there could be a variety of different reasons as to why a person who may feel like, you know, they may be judged for coming out might still choose to come out. But ultimately, again, that’s up to them to decide for themselves; you have to be able to center that person, specifically their agency. And also not blame them for any of that decision-making when it comes to disclosing their sexuality. I’ve worked with, for example, a bunch of clients, some who have decided to come out in the family and some who are like, Actually, I’m just going to wait until, like, my parents pass away. Or, oh, I’m going to move, and after I move out of my parents home, once I’m responsible for my own bills, then I will say something, right? Or there are people who are like, Yeah, I know that; my family isn’t going to take it well. And I don’t care, you know, for me, and this is where I bring up my own, like coming out. So, in a lot of ways, I don’t feel like my coming out was my choice. I came out specifically as a method to, like, stop my parents from arguing with each other. So for context, my parents had been divorced since I was in the first grade. Oh, and so, the night that I came out, it wasn’t like, All right, is it finally here? No, it was like, No, my, like my parents were in an argument with each other. And I was like, Okay, I don’t want them arguing in front of me. What can I do to stop this argument? Let’s
Dr. Connie Omari
change this.
Keanu Jackson, LMSW
No, but exactly. And in a lot of ways, I feel like my coming out wasn’t my choice, even though they didn’t have negative reactions to it. It was like, Okay, I’m using this to distract from this other thing that’s happening, is that right? And so all that to say is that there are a variety of reasons why a person might choose to come out, even if it means exposing them or putting them at risk for something. Ultimately, as an ally or as a person who’s trying to support a person who’s recently come out, you know, I think it’s just important to try and center that individual person’s needs, asking them all, What does community look like and feel like for you? Like, what do you wish support would look like and feel like? How can I do that for you if possible? And I’m really trying to see, juseelike, what is within your realm of control and your power to do that for that person? Which I feel like answers the question plus other questions.
Dr. Connie Omari
What do you know about what it did? For me, though, it helped me realize my own privilege because I am the most intentional about silence. When I got married, I didn’t even tell him I was getting married. Like, we have pretty much you. Well, I told my very, very close, close people, but I think maybe 10 people were there. And that’s been very general. So I say that when I was under investigation, of course, most people didn’t talk about their investigations. But still, the details and stuff I’ve been very tight-lipped about it other than, you know, that I’ve shared more with my community than I have with my friends and family. So it’s just funny because, you know, the gay community has this whole coming out process, right? Like, where are you, you know, whatever, and you’re in us? This is the first time I’ve actually even considered the possibility that nobody’s business. You can do it if you want to. And if you don’t want to do it, you don’t want to do it, just like, like, when I wanted to get married, I don’t want you to know, okay? I’ll tell you: when I tell you if I want to tell you, you find out how you find out. But anyway, yes, that was a lot of information for that question. But it was very, very useful and helpful. And hopefully it will be for other people as well. We want to move on because there’s something that you posted on Facebook, and we own Instagram, and we said that we were going to talk about it today. And that was about men who might be curious about anal play. And we are basically talking about this show with regards to its expansive sexuality. So, you know, when I first saw that pose, I was like, Man, I got to know more about this, you know, so why would a man be curious about sexual plants?” They weren’t gay?
Keanu Jackson, LMSW
Because men have sex just like everybody else. Isn’t, and sex isn’t one, just like one specific thing, like a list of things. And pleasure isn’t confined to one set of things.
Dr. Connie Omari
Can you explain? Hey, you were giving me information about that? I think before we hit the record
Keanu Jackson, LMSW
Oh, yeah, absolutely. And so listen, I am a huge advocate for anal play. I tell people, if you are curious about anal play, then go ahead and do it regardless of, say, your sexual orientation. I think that there is this like idea that for men, for straight men in particular, who are interested in exploring no play that somehow like that, but like emasculate them in some capacity, or that it would signify that, you know, they are weaker in some way or more submissive or something. And that is literally not true. Um, something that I try and do a lot throughout my work is really trying to normalize this idea that people should be entitled to have the type of sex that pleasures them and that pleases them, and giving them access to be curious and to explore their bodies in a way that just feels more aligned with who they are. I mentioned a little bit about this earlier, but for a lot of us, you know, we are told that our bodies need to do certain things in a certain capacity. Otherwise, what use are they for? And so I like to tell people that we are much more than objects, and most of us are much more than just tools to be used by folks in power. And what that looks like is giving people an opportunity to have sex with trusted partners that can feel just way more expansive and just way more explorative than what they’re typically used to.
Dr. Connie Omari
Love it. I love that response. Well, I think that there’s a because, you know, even as I read it, like I said, I was really, I guess, surprised by that. And I recognized that Espresso was a man because I can totally see women having sex with women all the time, and nobody says they’re gay, or even if they are not seen as, like, what’s the double standard about?
Keanu Jackson, LMSW
Well, I mean, I would also say that just because a guy is interested in the animal planet doesn’t mean that he is having sex with another man.
Dr. Connie Omari
Oh, god, okay, like that. Because now I’m really, oh,
Keanu Jackson, LMSW
Yeah, like, a woman could, for example, talk to a random man, which, you know, is like, mouth-to-mouth too. But, you know, a guy could enjoy being fifth-fingered if that’s something that he’s interested in doing or likes, using a variety of sex toys. You know, for example, there are a lot of women who enjoy pegging men, which means, you know, having a strap on or a dildo, and using that on the man, but that doesn’t mean that that man is gay. That just means
Dr. Connie Omari
doing that once. One of my girlfriends that I was incarcerated with just felt like me. And it was so funny because it filled me in. Maybe I’m biased. But this was a big football player, just the last person you would ever expect. So just to say, Peggy,
Keanu Jackson, LMSW
yeah, pegging? Okay. Yeah. And so, people were just into whatever they were interested in. And I think that there is a lot of, like, shame that’s just embedded in the way in which we
Dr. Connie Omari
carried out sex, he knew that she told me he was terrified, like, oh.
Keanu Jackson, LMSW
And yet, but I mean, but again, like, there is just a lot of shame in just like sex and sexuality, etc. And like, a lot of that just goes back to, like, what we’re taught about sex and what we’re not taught about sex. Right? A lot of that also exists within, like the queer community, where folks based off of their period of appearance get typecast into particular roles, like sexual roles, or dynamics that may not even be what they’re interested in. And so ultimately, the point is that, you know, when it comes to having sex, when it comes to having like fulfilling, pleasurable, and affirming sex, it’s, you know, really having an opportunity to just be yourself, you know, inform your partner of your needs, you know, as a partner, just like allowing that freedom of expression and really seeing how y’all can continue to have fun and play together.
Dr. Connie Omari
I love it, just like in a heterosexual relationship.
Keanu Jackson, LMSW
Like I mean, and that’s, I mean, and that’s the thing, though, I mean, going back to like that main point, again, a man deciding that he wants to like use Adel Beach, I’m a butt plug or like get fingered or something that doesn’t make his relationship any any less straight. It just means he is the straight man who likes to have his butt played with, does it?
Dr. Connie Omari
Does that make him gay? What if you wanted to do all that stuff with a friend? Does that make him gay?
Keanu Jackson, LMSW
Not necessarily, in my opinion. I mean, we can’t tell people how they identify. You know, I mean, for example, going back to, like, what you shared, I mean, how we are thinking and how we are taught to think about things like sex and sexuality. There are plenty of examples where women, like sis women in particular, are allowed to experiment, be curious, and explore each other, and it can just be perceived as like a cute, fun girl, and like, that’s just it, right? But for some reason, if a man is curious, or if a man is wanting to, you know, experiment around all of a sudden, you know, not only is he gay, but then folks are adamant that no matter what he does after that, yeah, it doesn’t matter because he is gay. Because he was curious. That means he’s like that.
Dr. Connie Omari
Yeah. Huh. Okay. Okay. What are some resources that you might recommend? Just in general, for people who are curious, for people who know and just want to experience happiness in a queer, you know, discriminating world,
Keanu Jackson, LMSW
And so I’m going to use this as an opportunity to plug the place that I work at.
So I work for an organization called the Expanse Group, which is a sex therapy practice that is all about teaching folks just about the different nuances of things like sex and sexuality, relationships, intimacy, etc. And giving people an opportunity to build community within that as well. And so their Instagram account is expansive. But then also, our CEO keeps pacing Tanner. They also have their own separate page called queer sex therapy that really just goes into depth, just like talking about a variety of topics related to sex, relationships, intimacy, and exploring the questioning. It gives you a really great starting point, in my opinion. And then they, of course, interact with and follow a bunch of other accounts that provide a lot of useful information as well.
Dr. Connie Omari
Can we get them on Instagram? Yeah, so
Keanu Jackson, LMSW
The expansive group is literally the expansive group on Instagram. And then for Casey, their Instagram handle was queer sex. They’re
Dr. Connie Omari
loving, can you when we’re done? Email me these handles. So I’ll make sure that they’re in the notes. Okay. Well, this is fantastic. I don’t want to leave anything out. What would you do if there was just one takeaway that our black community could have from this topic?
Keanu Jackson, LMSW
Yeah, let people have fun. People should be allowed to have fun. Oftentimes, when I observe people having a particularly strong reaction, I’m like, Okay, well, what does that stir up within you? Right? What is that like? What discomfort is that like for you? And then how can you take that and then mind your business? Because you’re not reacting because, like, what you’re reacting to has nothing to do with me; it’s about what’s going on inside of you. Right? So I say, let people have fun, do some reflection, and ask yourself, Well, what if you had the opportunity? To be a little bit more curious? What has given you the opportunity to be accepted and celebrated for your exploration? And how are there ways in which you can tap into yourself that just feel more affirming?
Dr. Connie Omari
Yeah, I just want to ask, you know, are we jealous that, you know, you’re brave enough to go out there and do something that we’re not comfortable doing? Maybe?
Keanu Jackson, LMSW
Like, literally, maybe. I can’t say I’ve never lived my life as a straight person. So I have no idea who
Dr. Connie Omari
Without, you know, as far as you’re comfortable with going, I mean, I know it’s personal. But you did share about your own personal, traumatic experience. How could that be? How could you just speak to someone who’s going because I have a similar experience? So that’s something that we share. And that hurts, regardless of whether it just hurts? What can we say to that community? And then that community that also, you know, has this added stigma of not only being gay, you know, going through that, but you’re gay and black? And just any words of wisdom? Yeah, for today?
Keanu Jackson, LMSW
I mean, again, this is an opportunity for folks who want to be allies to really check within themselves and say, Okay, well, what is it about me, the community that I keep? What is it about the space that I provide that I, you know, the relationships that I build, that do make me a safe person to disclose to, and also thinking, well, just because you are a person who, like, you know, let’s say, if like, you know, you want to support a person who has experienced some form of sexual trauma or violence, that doesn’t mean that you have to be the person specifically sitting down with that person, they can be looking into like partnering organizations or looking at to other like community resources that can be a little bit more of a push, or perhaps encouraging, like a mutual friend who might be a little bit more in tune to like what’s happening to like, hey, like, XYZ, can maybe can maybe benefit from a conversation, of course, not disclosing what’s happening. You want to leave disclosure up to the person who’s experienced the harm. But really, just like allowing yourself to be creative and then also just being open and honest, if you know that there’s a person who you love who is experiencing, you know, particular harm or violence, letting yourself be honest and open and saying, Hey, look, I see that this is happening for you, And I’m sorry that you’re having to go through this. What can I do? What do you need right now? How can I be of support?
Dr. Connie Omari
I’d love that because, you know, around conversations with I think just sex in general, and our community is very guarded. Because, you know, I don’t identify as a member of the queer community, but there’s a lot of shame around being abused sexually. I mean, there really is. And, you know, it’s part of the reason why people don’t speak up for this part. The reason why it happens is part of the reason, and like you said, it goes back to our culture and our history, like our bodies have been objectified forever. So a lot of times, we don’t even know that something bad is happening to us. Or if we do, we don’t know how to get help. You know, we don’t. There’s no, no, I mean, there is, but it’s not assessable. It’s not attainable for us, at least. Now, back in the day, when it was happening to me, But anyway, I just, you know, like I said, really want to be thankful to you for just getting out here. And, you know, Kevin has a conversation because so many people don’t like what I said. It’d be so much easier if you just said, You know, all right, get this; you know, we’ll put this in a box. That was my childhood, and I’m moving on with life. But you know, you’re really doing something that I believe takes courage. I’m definitely needed. Definitely underrepresented. And I don’t know; I’m just glad we had the opportunity to have a conversation today. Are there? Is there anything that you just want to leave with our audience? If nothing else, what do you want our audience to take away today?
Keanu Jackson, LMSW
Yeah, so I said it before, and I’ll say it again. Have fun. You deserve to play and explore. And really, there is nobody who can tell you who you are. Or demand. Any piece of view Any regard. Yeah, so I’ll leave it there.
Dr. Connie Omari
Love it. I appreciate that. And like I said, that’s just the same way I would tell somebody to belong to the heterosexual community. You know, there’s no difference. This is why I’m trying to emphasize the same thing. Well, I enjoyed having you here. I’ve enjoyed what you have had to share with our audience today. Very enlightening and lightning. And I just wish you the best, both with your career and with the people that you’re continuing to serve. I just want to thank you. And I’m wishing you a lot of luck with that.
Keanu Jackson, LMSW
Yeah, I appreciate that. Thank you. It’s been an absolute pleasure to chitchat.
Dr. Connie Omari
Thanks so much for coming. All right, I’m going to close now. All right. Thank you to everyone for tuning in. We have had an amazing experience with Mr. Kiana Jackson. We are going to leave his information in the bio. If you are in the New York area, do not practice anywhere outside of New York. New York is my primary base. Yeah, do telehealth. Yeah, telehealth is perfect. anywhere in the state of New York. He can see you. We’re going to leave his information in the bio. Also, please drop your Instagram handle so they can at least get information from you on Instagram or Facebook if you’re not in the state of New York.
Keanu Jackson, LMSW
Yeah, so I can be found at the black queer therapist on Instagram, and my website is Keanu M. Jackson.com.
Dr. Connie Omari
Love it. Love it. Love it. Alright, Kiana. Thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you, audience, everybody, for coming. Alright, peace and blessings. Dr. O